Holset Turbos, PART 9

[RWD4G63]

Woah, thanks for the tip! I did the the same thing to my HX35 and would have suffered the same problem had I not read this!

 

[doesitonall4rs]

Hey guys, I am switching the set up on my car, I have a billet 6 blade HX40 I measured it is 56mm inducer and 86mm exducer. I will be running this turbo in the 70AR housing at around 30psi, wondering what kind of airflow numbers I can expect?

 

[jshuman]

Hi guys, I am at a cross road with my 1g build. It has gotten a little too incolved and is taking away from my bigger 2g build. My 1g has a built motor already and I have a lot of parts for it including JMF drag intake, twin scroll t4 manifold, hx-40 pro with 19cm^2 housing, fic1450s, 255. I have three options:

1) Run it with stock turbo and manifolds as a DD.

2) Sell the JMF drag intake manifold and twin scroll w/2 tials, o2 and downpipe. Use the money towards a bep bolton housing for the hx40, fmic, cams and ecmlink.

3) Run it with the JMF drag and ts manifold. I will have to buy the parts listed in option 2 above plus have a custom exhaust made because the 02 housing is not big enough for the stock hx40 housing outlet. The exhaust is my biggest concern here. I do not have a welder and there are no shops in my area to do a custom exhaust.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone know what the guys who run the stock holset turbine housings do for exhaust?

 

[huafist]

Hi guys, I am at a cross road with my 1g build. It has gotten a little too incolved and is taking away from my bigger 2g build. My 1g has a built motor already and I have a lot of parts for it including JMF drag intake, twin scroll t4 manifold, hx-40 pro with 19cm^2 housing, fic1450s, 255. I have three options:

1) Run it with stock turbo and manifolds as a DD.

2) Sell the JMF drag intake manifold and twin scroll w/2 tials, o2 and downpipe. Use the money towards a bep bolton housing for the hx40, fmic, cams and ecmlink.

3) Run it with the JMF drag and ts manifold. I will have to buy the parts listed in option 2 above plus have a custom exhaust made because the 02 housing is not big enough for the stock hx40 housing outlet. The exhaust is my biggest concern here. I do not have a welder and there are no shops in my area to do a custom exhaust.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone know what the guys who run the stock holset turbine housings do for exhaust?

If you have two cars you're building, then you need to allocate one as a stock-ish car and the other for a build. That is, unless you have REALLY deep pockets. I'd put a BEP bolton housing on the HX40 and run it.

 

[jshuman]

Thanks for the reply. I actually bought a new cbr last month and its my daily barring rain. But I am leaning toward option 2 as well. Thanks for the insight.

 

[My1GLaser]

I have a 7 Blade HX-35, T3 housing, Turbonetics T3 mani, JMFab SMIM, HKS 272s, +1mm valves. I am running 60% E-85. I am very happy with my airflow after switching from the stock 1G IM I had on a couple months ago.

I am getting about 50lb/min at 24-26 psi. That's getting me 1.6-1.7sec 70-90mph times. Full boost at 4200 rpms.

That's just a little less airflow than I was getting at 35-36 psi on the stock IM with about the same 70-90mph time. Full boost about 4k.

I ran my 11.4 @ 122 with the stock IM. I am hoping for quicker times after I clean this tune up a bit more and turn it up to at least 30 psi and see if I can get over 55lb/min! The SMIM changed the whole airflow curve and I had to recalibrate my GM MAS, plus I am starting to finally use the DA tables

From what I remember, this thing isn't in its sweet spot til 30 psi...

 

[turboglenn]

Congrats and great airflow on such low boost, I would count yourself luck that the choudl have the heaveier duty 3rd/4th gear, hub and slifer assembly,in both 2 g trannies i'veblown it'sfrom 500hp capable turbos that come on hard and give a good torque bandthat's high and comes on early. I'm getting backout to re0installing my trans but i'll look at logs later, again, nice runs!@


Is the trans completey stock other than the shift fork? the profile doesn'ts pecify excptte 3200lb clutch, 6puck, fidnaza and HD shift fork

 

[JusMX141]

Those are some great airflow numbers, Josh. It's crazy to compare things back-to-back like that, and how Link spells it out for you so there's zero guesswork. I would have never thought an intake manifold swap could unlock so much horsepower!

 

[My1GLaser]

It's actually my 4th tranny since I switched from the 18g to the HX-35! Bone stock, but I took it apart and measured and shimmed it. I commented in your tranny thread, since I realized its shimmed too tight due to using too long of solder. It shift at 8.5-9k with no problems though I'm gonna find another tranny and rebuild it while the car is running this time!

I'm pretty shocked with the airflow myself! It has been down for 5 months due to a broken wrist pin. I couldn't resist upgrading and fixing my list of things I knew it needed while it was down. 5 months is a long time and it's like a whole new car to me. I'm gonna slowly turn the boost up over the next few months and enjoy it getting faster all over again!!!

 

[bastarddsm]

What t3 housing are you running?

 

[My1GLaser]

.63 A/R 4 bolt housing from timsturbos.com

 

[99gst_racer]

So, what does Holset offer in the 100-120 lb/min range? Anything? I'm not familiar with anything larger than the HX52.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

HT60 and then the next step up is HX60. Both with enormous turbine housings and wheels.

HT60 is reverse rotation though. Very hard to find info on these.

The HX60 I had my hands on a while back had an ~83mm inlet, and the diesel puller I got it from said it should flow 125-130lbs/min.

They are about 75lbs each.

I think the only way you could light one of these on a 2.0l is with it setup as your primary in a compound system. Probably takes around 300whp worth of exhaust gas to get rolling.

Edit: Found this from my notes.. P# - 3594608, 80mm/112mm 8 blade cast compressor, 97mm/86mm 12 blade turbine for an HX60 center section.

So think GT4508 territory. Exhaust sides were undivided 19cm2 and 22cm2, divided 25cm2 and 27cm2, IIRC

980C comp wheel was P# 4024855NX

You would have to call someone like Columbus Diesel for more info

 

[forcefed86]

So, what does Holset offer in the 100-120 lb/min range? Anything? I'm not familiar with anything larger than the HX52.

Lots of info on the diesel forums. Here is a decent list, I had a better one, I'll PM it to you if I can find it.

Turbo______CFM______Racing HP____Daily HP
HX35______600________420_________330
HX40______800________560_________440
T66_______800________560 _________440
B1________900________630_________495
H2E_______1000_______700_________550
HX50______1000_______700_________550
HX55______1050_______735_________578
HT3B______1100_______770_________605
T76_______1350_______945 _________743
HT60______1400_______980_________770
B2________1500_______1050________825
HX60______1550_______1085________853
T88_____1450-1750__1015-1225____798-963
HT4B______1800_______1260________990
Big Brother_1900_______1330________1045
T91_______2000_______1400________1100
HC5A/HX82_2450_______1715________1348
T100______2600_______1820________1430
T105______2900_______2030________1595

 

[99gst_racer]

Excellent. Thanks guys. I'll do some more research on the HT60 and the HX60.

 

[bastarddsm]

We run an HX60 on our 3.0" pro stock diesel truck. The HX60 is a really common turbo in the tractor pulling world. 3.0" diesel truck, Superfarm tractors, and Pro Farm tractors all use it. I'm not sure what the stock specs are, but everybody in 3.0 land runs an aftermarket billet wheel, and a heavily massaged compressor cover. Most cummins guys run a 25 or 27cm housing, on our duramax we used to run a 32cm, now we run a 35cm. We make about 1400hp at 3500RPM, and 60 psi boost. We can pull it all the way down to 1900RPM before we get under the turbo. We also see about 55psi drive pressure at peak.

The 60 is a big turbo, I believe it has a 4" turbine inducer. You might be better off running an HX52 and getting a bigger compressor wheel for it.

I believe thats what the HotFarm tractors run , 3.0 compressor and a 3.0 turbine. Some have holsets on them.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Paul has a compound setup, he could probably light the HX60. Columbus diesel makes some custom housings for them too. But as a primary, you could likely get away with the 22cm2 open "H2" housing.

They are expensive when new.

The biggest comp wheel you can get for the HX52 is the HTT Pro 71mm wheel, same size major diameter though, 99.xmm so its still gonna max out just at or around 100lbs/min on a 2.0 with boost in the mid 50s like a GT4202 would, accounting for the differences on the hotside

 

[99gst_racer]

It wouldn't be for my car, but definitely for a compound build.

High compression, alky, and RWD chassis. Probably pair it with an HX40 and aim for 1200 HP. The chassis is ready, but the rest of the project is still in the dreaming stages.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Not certain how precise this map is:

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But that tells me you will need some serious rpm to get the most flow out of that compressor.

Something on the order of 11.5k+ rpm on a 2.0 with boost in the mid-upper 40s, even with 100% VE across the board.

Maybe Kelford 292HL, Kiggly Springs/LA and some cam gears could get you there, provided you don't loose a rod-bolt first

That's just a bit more rpm than I am looking for on my GSC S3/HX52 Pro combo haha

 

[bastarddsm]

Paul has a compound setup, he could probably light the HX60. Columbus diesel makes some custom housings for them too. But as a primary, you could likely get away with the 22cm2 open "H2" housing.

They are expensive when new.

The biggest comp wheel you can get for the HX52 is the HTT Pro 71mm wheel, same size major diameter though, 99.xmm so its still gonna max out just at or around 100lbs/min on a 2.0 with boost in the mid 50s like a GT4202 would, accounting for the differences on the hotside

I knew he had compounds. That HX60 is a big bi*** tho. I recon we have a columbus housing on the pull truck.


What is the pro 71mm wheel? I was pretty sure that several people were running a 76mm HX52.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Maybe, how many cubes is the pull truck? A 6BT could probably get away with a 25cm housing as a primary charger on kill mode, it would help keep drive pressure down when you got 60psi going in the front end, I'm sure!

The Pro 71mm wheel is the only upgrade wheel that I know of for the HX52, but I am all ears

If you know where I can find a 76mm inducer with an exducer over 99mm I'll be all over it, though it might require more turbine and a bigger scroll case to still be efficient for me haha

Standard HX52: 66.x/99.x
Pro 52 Wheel: 71/99.x

I still think my next step is going to have to be in the GT4508 / S480 neighborhood, but thats not in the budget for a couple years.

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah we are 404". Ill see what I can find on a wheel. Obviously its a aftermarket deal, kinda like putting a garret wheel in a 20g to make a green.

 

[ezz-e]

I think we need to start up some interest on a bolt on housing for the hx52, im sure BEP would do it if we get enough people for it. Im thinking some thing along the lines of a 90 or A/R housing with a v band inlet. What do you guys think?

I took of the back housing of my hx52 today and boy is it a heavy one.

do all the volvo models bring a 16cm housing ?

 

[JusMX141]

I think we need to start up some interest on a bolt on housing for the hx52, im sure BEP would do it if we get enough people for it. Im thinking some thing along the lines of a 90 or A/R housing with a v band inlet. What do you guys think?

Doubt they'd have any interest. The majority of their housings are cast from two sizes- .55 and .70, and those are used on a variety of turbo brands. The idea that they R&D then cast an entirely new housing to fit only a HX52 to sell one or two a month is crazy.

Regarding a lighter housing, see this and the posts which follow:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-lb-min-turbo-discussion-3.html#post152980134

 

[2slow4now]

Not certain how precise this map is:

But that tells me you will need some serious rpm to get the most flow out of that compressor.

Something on the order of 11.5k+ rpm on a 2.0 with boost in the mid-upper 40s, even with 100% VE across the board.

Maybe Kelford 292HL, Kiggly Springs/LA and some cam gears could get you there, provided you don't loose a rod-bolt first

That's just a bit more rpm than I am looking for on my GSC S3/HX52 Pro combo haha

I've been using this calculator to help with making the calculations quick and easy. RB Racing Turbo Boost and Airflow Calculator