Holset Turbos, PART 8

[19BLACKGST98]

What is your wg pressure and at what rpm do you get there?

 

[crash89]

What is your wg pressure and at what rpm do you get there?

Just a 1 bar spring in each (14.5) and at the moment I see full boost right around 4k. This week I will be turing up the boost and get back!

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Just a 1 bar spring in each (14.5) and at the moment I see full boost right around 4k. This week I will be turing up the boost and get back!

Damn I was hoping you were seeing results similar to what mr peepers is seeing.

 

[crash89]

Damn I was hoping you were seeing results similar to what mr peepers is seeing.

Matts car is a freak!! I would love to see spool like he is seeing, but due to his custom manifold and runner size being substantially smaller than my RedJack manifold I doubt Ill even come close.. Myself and SlantedJ are going to do a response video just like he did after I up the boost. This week is pretty busy so it might be next week at the earliest that we even get the camera near the car.

 

[JusMX141]

Just a 1 bar spring in each (14.5) and at the moment I see full boost right around 4k. This week I will be turing up the boost and get back!

That's still quite impressive given the turbo's size and the physical size of the housing.

I installed a twin-scroll TD05HR 20G with a 10.5cm turbine housing and a 20* clip on a buddy's Evo last month and it spools just a couple hundred RPM's quicker than what you're seeing there. When you take into consideration how much larger the HX35's rotating assembly is, how much more airflow it can generate over a 20G, PLUS the turbine housing being larger than the Evo's 20G, full boost at 4k is quite impressive.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Matts car is a freak!! I would love to see spool like he is seeing, but due to his custom manifold and runner size being substantially smaller than my RedJack manifold I doubt Ill even come close.. Myself and SlantedJ are going to do a response video just like he did after I up the boost. This week is pretty busy so it might be next week at the earliest that we even get the camera near the car.

Have you considered trying to run smaller intercooler piping (2" or 2.25") to speed up the air velocity? Ive been looking for ways to build my 2g auto HX35 build so that I wont need to get the Torque converter restalled. I purchased a divided manifold but the ID of the piping is regular size unlike his 1.25" piping so I am looking for other ways to speed it up. If it doesnt work out ill sell the manifold and have a smaller diameter manifold made locally.

I'm not sure how much the smaller piping will help but It will deffinetly show some spool improvement but if you go to small it will hurt you in the top end (which I'm not to worried about personally since mine is a fun DD build).

Anyways I found this on DSM talk in a very old thread:

HRC Engineering
06-18-2001, 08:41 AM
"A couple of cents:

2 1/4" is adequate for between 500 and 550 HP. As a rule, bigger piping is not required until the airspeed in the pipe exceeds supersonic. Once supersonic speeds are reached, turbulence in the pipe leads to flow losses; only then is larger piping required. Sure, you see drag cars with major big tubing, but keep in mind the operational envelope of such cars: high RPM only, not a care about low or midrange losses. For them, the large tubes make sense. But, and this is as valid a comparison as any: I work with 1500 HP V-8 turbos that have tubes whose small sizes may surprise you relative to the airflow these motors are achieving......

As a more appropriate example, our 10.40 / 140 MPH Street Neon uses a 2" pipe that transitions to 2 1/4" halfway between the compressor outlet and the intercooler inlet. This car produces approx. 500 HP on turbo, with another 100 HP from N20.

The arguments against oversized tubing?

Loss of velocity.
Excessive volume, combined with loss of velocity in increasing spool-up time.
Additional weight.
Clearance issues of larger vs. smaller tubes.

Subtle, perhaps, but everything counts in the end result of any combo."

Edit: Also I look forward to seeing your results video.

 

[dragonov_elite]

Matts car is a freak!! I would love to see spool like he is seeing, but due to his custom manifold and runner size being substantially smaller than my RedJack manifold I doubt Ill even come close.. Myself and SlantedJ are going to do a response video just like he did after I up the boost. This week is pretty busy so it might be next week at the earliest that we even get the camera near the car.

I hope your gonna be down in the dells for automotions this weekend. ill be driving my redjack WH1C holset build down there after it gets tuned this week.

 

[Morphius]

Probably a good breaking point...

Link to Part 9:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html





For more discussion history:
Link to Part 1 :
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

Link to Part 2:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

Link to Part 3:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

Link to Part 4:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

Link to Part 5:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

Link to Part 6:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

Link to Part 7:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

Link to Part 8:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

Link to Part 9:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
Link to FAQ:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


For in vehicle results:
Link to Results Only:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

Link to HX-52 setup;
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


For more specific component discussion:
Link to Holset Part #'s:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

Link to Fake Holset Info:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

HY35:

The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

H1C/WH1C:

In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

HX35-40 hybrid:

Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

HX40:

The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

H1E/WH1E:

The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

HX52:

This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

Misc.:

• Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.

• The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.

• Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.

• They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.

• There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.

• The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.

Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

HX35 Compressors:
50mm / 78mm 7-blade
52mm / 78mm 7-blade
54mm / 78mm 7-blade
54mm / 83mm 8-blade
56mm / 83mm 8-blade

Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


HX40:Compressors:

56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
60mm / 83mm 8-blade

Turbine: 76mm / 64mm