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Holset Turbos, PART 5

Posted by Morphius, Nov 8, 2008

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  1. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

    1,336
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    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan
    Continue on...


    For more discussion history:
    Link to Part 1 :
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 2:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 3:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

    Link to Part 4:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

    Link to Part 5:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

    Link to Part 6:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

    Link to Part 7:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

    Link to Part 8:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

    Link to Part 9:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


    For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
    Link to FAQ:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


    For in vehicle results:
    Link to Results Only:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

    Link to HX-52 setup;
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


    For more specific component discussion:
    Link to Holset Part #'s:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

    Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

    Link to Fake Holset Info:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


    Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
    HX35:

    The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

    The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

    HY35:

    The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! :) It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

    H1C/WH1C:

    In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

    I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

    HX35-40 hybrid:

    Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

    HX40:

    The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

    The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

    H1E/WH1E:

    The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

    The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

    HX52:

    This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

    Misc.:

    • Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
    • The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
    • Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
    • They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
    • There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
    • The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.



    Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

    HX35 Compressors:
    50mm / 78mm 7-blade
    52mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 83mm 8-blade
    56mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


    HX40:Compressors:

    56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
    58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 76mm / 64mm
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  2. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Just in case, did anyone have an answer to my post in the last part of holset part 4?
     
  3. OneLove

    OneLove Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 12, 2007
    ?, Washington
    I got my Holset Hx35 installed and ready to go! Here are some pics. I have not had a chance to tune the car yet but it feels fast for only 8psi right now. I will be getting some logs up when i finish tuning on 17psi or whatever i end up running.

    The install wasnt to bad. The turbo cleared the factory fan, and fit in the snuggly after i dented the waterpipe. The hardest part of the install was getting the waterpipe out to dent it, but it wasnt to bad. Im excited to start waking this turbo up.

    I would like to give a shout out to dsm-onster for all the help and answering all my dumb questions!


    DSC04502.jpg

    DSC04500.jpg

    DSC04488.jpg

    DSC04534.jpg

    DSC04537.jpg

    DSC04543.jpg

    DSC04542.jpg
     
  4. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

    1,336
    41
    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan

    Good deal? Depends on what you feel a good deal is. For a turbo that flows more than a 50 trim but spools as fast a 16g for the cost of a 16g, I think most would think it's a good deal.

    Based on what is shown in the listing, that appears to be a super40.

    Needed to bolt on? Bolt on housing or a T3 style manifold to utilize the stock housing.
     
  5. GST95

    GST95 Proven Member

    200
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    Joined Jun 23, 2002
    Bristol, Indiana
    Thats the guy that i got mine from. If you want it youll have to do the get it now. He sells alot of those and they never make it to the end of the auction. If you miss out on it, email him and he will probably be able to still get you one.

    If you want more pics just look at the ones ive posted or pm me and ill send more. I didnt go the BEP housing route, so my results are gunna be different. The only thing that you might not like is the inlet on the compressor cover isnt cut with a lip on the outside like most turbos. I dont think this is a problem except for maybe doing a boost leak test. It does have a rough finish, so it might hold for a boost leak test though. I did a 7psi test and it stayed on.
     
  6. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

    1,336
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    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan
    Interesting tidbit, as I thought this was impressive and a testiment to the knowledge and work of members here...

    Adding from all the Holset discussion threads, 3348 posts and over 206,949 views. OMG


    If you don't think others are browsing here, you are mistaken. Special thanks to all who have and continue to make, these threads the source of core knowledge for Holsets on DSMs specifically and gas applications in general.
     
  7. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Orange County, California
    Hey guys, how about this one, is this the pro model. These turbo's are so confusing:coy: Here are the specs::
    This will fit a 5.9 B series cummins in a Dodge truck as well as the C 8.3 and ISL

    It has a T-3 Flange divided scroll 18cm Exhaust housing.

    There are 6 blades in the impeller and 12 on the exhaust turbine wheel.

    The wastegate is set at 1.6 bar from Cummins

    This would make a great upgrade for a 5.9 Cummins or work great on a mild V-8
     

    Attached Files:

  8. andy4g63

    andy4g63 Proven Member

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    Who seels oil restrictor fittings for HOLSETS ONLY ???

    Thanks.
     

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  9. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    Guys i really keep changing my mind on picking a housing/manifold setup for my hx40. I dont know what housing to go with, Im afraid that if i have a garrett housing machined that it wont be perfect, I dont know that a normal machine shop can do the radius of the hx40 wheel. I dont want a hack job.

    If i call up bullseye, Will they have the hx40 t3 .70 a/r V-band housing in stock? I DO NOT want the t3 70 ar with the mitsu outlet. Thats all i saw on the site and on timsturbo.

    And how much do the run like 250$? Im going to call tommaro and see.

    If someone will buy my t4 manifold, I might just buck up and get a t3 DNP manifold. But.. if someone can CONFIRM that a turbonetics manifold will fit without a spacer ill run one of them because there cheaper. If they will fit a stock holset housing(timg), and a machined t3 garret .82a/r housing(dsmmike50t) with no spacers, It would have to fit a BEP t3. I Guess i will have to find out for my self.
     

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  10. JWoodley

    JWoodley Proven Member

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  11. DoyoFCT

    DoyoFCT Proven Member

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    I'm doing a similar setup, but im going with the ERL manifold. it's a very nice piece. Here's a review of it on dsmtalk ERL Cast Stainless T3 Manifold - DSMtalk Forums
     

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  12. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    V-band .70 a/r BEP t3 housing. They DO make it. I don't know if Nick (the turbo trader) has it or if you have to go with another vendor like VIP Garage.
     

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  13. andy4g63

    andy4g63 Proven Member

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    If Nick/Turbo trader/, has it in stock, I reccomend it. Good responce and very fast shipping- 2 days for me.
     

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  14. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    Well i finally got my turbo in the mail, its got a exhasut housing ive never seen. Here are some part numbers, I want to make sure its actaully an hx40.

    On the cartrige it says 3593878. and 3530521
    On the exhaust housing it says 3539594. And in marker H3539854
    On the box it says. 3530521 and 3545790
    Can anyone identify this, so i know its a hx40. I do not have a mic on me to mic the wheel sizes.

    Here are some pics.
    101_5631.jpg

    101_5632.jpg

    101_5633.jpg

    101_5634.jpg

    101_5635.jpg

    101_5636.jpg
     

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  15. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    And thanks i emailed the turbo trader to make sure they have it. The one on the link dose not say if its for the hx40 or not.
     

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  16. xi Talon ix

    xi Talon ix Proven Member

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    i was told by another member that turbo trader is no longer in business. is this true?
     
  17. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

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    I believe he still is. BEP sales team will point you the Turbo Trader for their parts but don't expect a response if you email Nick.
     

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  18. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Ihatedsms, that is an hx40 compressor wheel. There are no hx35 6blade compressor wheels. You have a t3 flange turbine housing. Pull the turbine housing and measure the wheel with a ruler. The hx40 turbine wheel is big enough for a rough measurement to be enough
     

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  19. b00stedtalon2

    b00stedtalon2 Proven Member

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    I bought both my feed and return -an fittings for the HX52 on ebay for pretty cheap. The feed fitting is also a restricter. t4 fittings will bolt right on the hx52, and im sure they will bolt up to a t4 hx40 as well but I am not positive.
     

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  20. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    It looks to be 64/76mm. Dose that sound right.
     

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  21. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

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    I thought the Holset stock housing is a T4 divided housing. I've never seen a T3 divided housing.
     

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  22. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    Most of them are divided t3.
     

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  23. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    Is my housing a 16 cm? it has a 16 in the divided runner too.

    And what am i supposed to do for oiling since there are no treads for a fitting, Just a big ass hole. (as you can see in the pick)

    101_5636.jpg
     

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  24. DoyoFCT

    DoyoFCT Proven Member

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    the hole in your pic is the return side, its clocked differently than a mitsu turbo obviously. so the feed is the one on the "bottom" when thinking mitsu orientation anyways. I believe they sell a nice flange fitting that bolts to the top and allows you to connect a feed line. my friend has one i'll have to ask him where he got it. would probably be easy to have made if you know a machinist.

    101_5634.jpg
     

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  25. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    Lol, that makes sence,:shhh: For some reason i thought the arrow had to be pointing up. And was thinking mitsu.

    Yea if you can find out where i can get that flange for the feed let me know, And im guessing the return is a normal garrett fitting.
     

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