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Holset Turbos, PART 4

Posted by Morphius, Aug 7, 2008

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  1. andy4g63

    andy4g63 Proven Member

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    3" is more than enough. I am sure you know, that the downpipe is the most important piece of exhaust system if you are running full exhaust. The biggest gains come from larger DP install. If you could make 3.5" DP and the rest 3", you should be more than pefect. On the other note, HX-40 turbine exducer is like 62.8mm and 3 " is 76mm and about 72-73mm internal diameter, so do the math yourself.
     

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  2. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Bloxom, Virginia
    For exhaust immediately after the turbine outlet, it is all about smooth transitions. What is the outlet diameter of the turbine housing? That should be your starting point. Yes you can get smaller later, way later in the exhaust system. As long as you don't have any country boy baffle mufflers you'll be ok. (just kidding about the country boy thing. I live in BFNW easternshore VA)

    I wouldn't get a turbine housing machined for a p-trim it is too close to the size of a holset hx40 turbine wheel. There may not be enough meat for the difference in contour. The p-trim exducer is actuall SLIGHTLY larger. So you're cutting it too close with a p-trim cut. I would opt for a o-trim or n-trim. or a t350 (t3 stage 5) cut.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  3. andy4g63

    andy4g63 Proven Member

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    Don't mean to jack the thread, but I know a lot of people viewing Holset thread, so I want to ask something quick, to get aquick answer, if possible.

    I run H1E in a T3 BEP housing, Tial 44, Tial BOV, 280's, JMF SMIM, etc. I noticed something interesting:

    After I start the car, let it warm and start driving, the first couple times I hit boost, especially 3 gear, I am getting full boost @ 4700-4800 RPM and no creep. After the car heats up good/ at least 10-15 min. of driving/, I am getting same boost 200-300 RPM later, with a little creep from 21 to 22-23 PSI. No idea what is it. It is every time. Checked for boost leaks-nothing. Tighten up all bolts on turbo ex. mani, itake mani- nothing, everything is good. Silicone couplers, TB, FMIC, WG - perfect. I even changed the WG diafragm, cause i know mine was little pinched between the 2 halfs of the WG. Car is dead perfect, just dont nkow. May be, when really heats up has something to do with air velocity.

    Any ideas ???
    Thanks, Andy.
     

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  4. DoyoFCT

    DoyoFCT Proven Member

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    Yea its not my setup LOL, i just found it in his profile... wanted to see an hx40 under a dnp... his setup has probably changed since in an earlier post he posted about having a .70 T3 which I believe is a 3inch vband only. And I also think the pics above might be an hx35.
     

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  5. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    I thought the volvo guys used a p-trim? Cant find the link to the site.

    And im not saying getting it cut to a p-trim, im saying buying a p-trim turbine housing them getting it machined to fit the hx40.

    A p-trim wheel is exducer =64.5, Inducer=74. What size are the hx40? 64/76?
     

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  6. GST95

    GST95 Proven Member

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    IIRC my ID for my outlet is around 83mm. Ill see if the 3.5" bends are tight enough to work. I dont like to cheat the bends. I think i have enough 3" bends to make another one with that, but im not sure. Thanks for everybodys input.


    I did get to take my hx40 with the holset T3 18cm^2 exhaust housing with non-divided header for a ride today. I didnt drive it much, but i thought i would tell you guys my initial impressions. The instal isnt finished and i dont have any exhaust on it yet. I can get a couple psi around 3k and im seeing full boost around 5k. I havent taken it past 6500 yet, but so far i like what i see.
     
  7. TSIMonsteR

    TSIMonsteR Proven Member

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    Turns out the one I am looking at is the Big H1C. I am trying to scrounge up enough change to buy so I can join the holset team! :D
     

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  8. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    I just dont' want you to run into any possible snags. The p-trim wheel is very close to the hx40.

    TSImonsteR, you'll like the big h1c:) . I love my turbo. A 50-trim with a mean coffee buzz!

    That is very surprizing that the hx40 with the 18cm^2 housing with a non-divided manifold spools to full boost by 5K! What gear was this in? Which compressor wheel? This is with stock cams right? A pare of 272s will add to lag.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  9. TSIMonsteR

    TSIMonsteR Proven Member

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    Well, I plan to use it for road racing. I will eventually be stroking the motor, so that should help spool even further and make this a sick road racing turbo.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    324 whp · 256 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  10. TimG

    TimG N/T Moderator

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    I would have to agree on this one. :D

    I'm tuned for 35psi on the streets now... daily driven to work and back 60 miles a day. She yanks hard to the point that I only can really give her all she's got onto a long highway on ramp.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  11. TSIMonsteR

    TSIMonsteR Proven Member

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    How much cheaper than the SS is the Steel housing?
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    324 whp · 256 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  12. xi Talon ix

    xi Talon ix Proven Member

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    all these facts and pictures but no video?:notgood: i just picked up an HX35 for my talon and id like to see what it can do. maybe a 2-3 pull or something?:thumb:
     
  13. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

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    Don't understand, if you got it yourself why wouldn't you put it on yourself and see what it is capable of?
     

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  14. xi Talon ix

    xi Talon ix Proven Member

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    im waiting for my BEP housing and oil lines to come. then i have to find time to install it so it will be at least 2 weekends from now and then i have to get a tune which im still not confident doing.
     
  15. Slippi84

    Slippi84 Proven Member

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    Join the club. There is a list of guys waiting for stuff to test their cars which is why you don't see more results.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  16. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Bloxom, Virginia
    You can't picture an evo3 16g powered car with a shot of nitrous on top? Or just curt browns evo3 16g 500whp car? This is what the hx35 can do. 494whp with the spool speed of the 16g.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  17. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

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    What you using as a source of tuning?
     

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  18. GST95

    GST95 Proven Member

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    I was surprised too. I almost didnt buy it because i didnt want to go bigger than a 16cm housing. Im kinda curious how it would do with a divided header now.

    This is with the 7 blade wheel. It looks to me to be cast, but it has machining marks on the base of the wheel like the billet ones. Maybe its a cast replica of the billet wheel? I dont know. I have another cast wheel that looks more finished than this one
    1027082017.jpg

    It passes 20psi before 5k anyways. Boost ramps up fast around 4800is and is pulling hard by 5200. The transition of power changes real fast between these rpms. This is on a 136k mile stock 6 bolt with hks 272s in 3rd gear. I dont have an exhaust to mount my wideband, so these numbers might change a little bit once i get the exhaust on and i can tune it a little bit. Im not getting any knock, but its probably too rich right now because im still running off of the tune i had with my PTE that was creating 45psi backpressure. Right now i have some creep and i dont know exactly what my boost is trying to be set at. I should have ported out the wastegate hole before i put it on, but i got in a hurry. It might not creep with exhaust on it, but if not ill just set the boost higher than it creeps to. Either way im not gunna worry about it. I started getting close to 100% dc on my injectors by 6500 and let out of it, so im gunna need more fuel. I dont want to push it too much without having some exhaust on the car. I had to make a temporary heat shield, but i dont trust it too much.

    I dont know when ill have time to get the exhaust on it. The weather is changing over pretty quick around here and i need to finish putting my truck back together so i can work in my garage again.


    Here are a couple of pictures. The lighting was a little off, so they didnt turn out the greatest. I ordered a couple new fittings for the oil feed because i dont like how it sits so close to the header. I also put my MBC on.

    downsized_1107081516.jpg
    1107081519.jpg
    1107081518.jpg
     
  19. xi Talon ix

    xi Talon ix Proven Member

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    link is going in the car this weekend.
     
  20. northendtrooper

    northendtrooper Proven Member

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    So can I make about 450-500whp within 30psi?
    All supporting mods:780cc, DSMlinked.
     
  21. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

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    Yes.
     

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  22. northendtrooper

    northendtrooper Proven Member

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    ILU haha
     
  23. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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  24. ihatedsms

    ihatedsms Proven Member

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    Dam i wish these were up when i was bidding on my hx40, Thats a great deal!
     

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  25. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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    M-Town, Michigan
    1000 posts... looks like a good breaking point.


    Link to part 5:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html#post151666559




    For more discussion history:
    Link to Part 1 :
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 2:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 3:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

    Link to Part 4:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

    Link to Part 5:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

    Link to Part 6:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

    Link to Part 7:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

    Link to Part 8:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

    Link to Part 9:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


    For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
    Link to FAQ:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


    For in vehicle results:
    Link to Results Only:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

    Link to HX-52 setup;
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


    For more specific component discussion:
    Link to Holset Part #'s:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

    Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

    Link to Fake Holset Info:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


    Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
    HX35:

    The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

    The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

    HY35:

    The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! :) It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

    H1C/WH1C:

    In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

    I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

    HX35-40 hybrid:

    Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

    HX40:

    The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

    The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

    H1E/WH1E:

    The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

    The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

    HX52:

    This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

    Misc.:

    • Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
    • The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
    • Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
    • They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
    • There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
    • The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.



    Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

    HX35 Compressors:
    50mm / 78mm 7-blade
    52mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 83mm 8-blade
    56mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


    HX40:Compressors:

    56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
    58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 76mm / 64mm
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
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