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Holset Turbos, PART 7

Posted by Morphius, Oct 30, 2009

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  1. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan
    Continue on...

    For more discussion history:
    Link to Part 1 :
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 2:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 3:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

    Link to Part 4:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

    Link to Part 5:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

    Link to Part 6:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

    Link to Part 7:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

    Link to Part 8:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

    Link to Part 9:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


    For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
    Link to FAQ:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


    For in vehicle results:
    Link to Results Only:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

    Link to HX-52 setup;
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


    For more specific component discussion:
    Link to Holset Part #'s:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

    Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

    Link to Fake Holset Info:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


    Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
    HX35:

    The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

    The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

    HY35:

    The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! :) It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

    H1C/WH1C:

    In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

    I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

    HX35-40 hybrid:

    Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

    HX40:

    The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

    The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

    H1E/WH1E:

    The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

    The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

    HX52:

    This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

    Misc.:

    • Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
    • The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
    • Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
    • They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
    • There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
    • The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.



    Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

    HX35 Compressors:
    50mm / 78mm 7-blade
    52mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 83mm 8-blade
    56mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


    HX40:Compressors:

    56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
    58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 76mm / 64mm
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  2. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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    Placeholder for info.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2009
  3. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Jun 9, 2003
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    Placeholder for info.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2009
  4. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan
    Place holder for info.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2009
  5. Gooberlog

    Gooberlog Proven Member

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    I was wondering how long the part 6 section would get before moving on to a new one. It's really helpful to see these actual install pics on the cars.
     

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  6. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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  7. RadDsm

    RadDsm Proven Member

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    I've read every thread so far and have been following them for months and I was going to use a 7 blade hx-35 on my motor when its done. I was going with 1g rods and 2g pistons, but now I just ordered Eagle rods and I'll be ordering Wiseco pistons soon, so I'm thinking of stepping up to an hx40.

    As far as oiling goes, I'm not sure if I want to use a -10an drain because it seems like it isn't quite large enough. Is there no way to fit a -12an line down there?
     
  8. red_devil

    red_devil Proven Member

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    Been running my Holset HX40 for 2k miles now just thought I would show it so far. Was going to post in results section but my AFC is not installed/logger not hotsinked correctly. Still waiting on ECM Lite to come out before I let the car really breathe.

    I went with a -3an oil feed from ofh and stock cummins oil drain connected to 2G bottem pipe. No shaft play or blow by and spools great.

    Anyone know what type of wg it is?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009

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  9. FenixTX717

    FenixTX717 Proven Member

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    Is there any other solution for the 2g guys to get away from "denting" the water pipe so the holset turbos will fit? I mean I know you could make a flange to go inbetween the manifold and turbo or use one for the head/manifold but is there any "easier" way to make it all just work?

    That way without having to modify your exhaust as well?
     

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  10. kp116

    kp116 Proven Member

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    Cong I would just dent the water pipe. Erics car turned out real nice with his hx35 set up!
     
  11. joyfil2001

    joyfil2001 Proven Member

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    I just noticed something. I plan on using a 90* coupler at the turbo outlet to point towards the passenger side. Will it clear the engine/trans mount? The picture above doesn't really show for sure.
     

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  12. viperlp01

    viperlp01 Proven Member

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    your going to run a side mount with this?? I honestly don't think you can make that turn towards the Pass side... I will defidently go to the drivers side without a problem. I used a straight 2.5 in coupler and had a 90* piece of intercooler pipe that I cut to mate up with the existing FMIC.. to make things easier i would go FMIC
     

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  13. joyfil2001

    joyfil2001 Proven Member

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    I have an FMIC but it is the APEXI/Greddy style where both pipe go to the passenger side. I originally went this way because it's AUTO.

    I would be using a 90* coupler for the turn. Here is the kit:

    fmic.jpg
     

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  14. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    My attempt to look less conspicuous:

    h1c_engine_bay3.jpg
    h1c_engine_bay4_255660.jpg
    h1c_installed.jpg


    Nick! Congrats on the wise ass promotion. I need to pay more attention. . .
     

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  15. viperlp01

    viperlp01 Proven Member

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    Its gonna be crazyyyy close.. But it might work if you angle it towards the front of the car more and make your next pipe on a small angle to get it straight again.. you might also beable to put the 90* higher up onto the outlet to give you more room.
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  16. joyfil2001

    joyfil2001 Proven Member

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    I'm getting my turbo from Justin. Should I tell him clock the housing differently? What is involved in clocking the housing? Should I just do it myself?
     

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  17. 95GreenGSX

    95GreenGSX Proven Member

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    Im not sure if you still have to dent the water pipe with the ERL manifold because it tends to stick the turbo out further, or looks like it. But then again, it is a T3 flange.

    I guess Ill find out for sure when I put it on my car this winter :)
     
  18. viperlp01

    viperlp01 Proven Member

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    If you have an HX series then the is a snap ring holding it in.. It might be hard for him to make the clock be perfect... It will just take time to get it to fit the way you want it to..
     

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  19. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

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  20. ApexVIII

    ApexVIII Proven Member

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    it was really hard for me to get the compressor cover snap ring back on, i had to get some big plyers.

    what did you guys use? i need to re adjust the clock angle on it soit points a little more straight down.

    the stock drain on the pan is a little bigger then a -10an, but a -12an is to large,

    so you could have a -12an bung welded on if you feel like droppign the pan.

    i just use a -10an flange(that i ported so its larger then a -10an flow wise) and a 3/8" hose and a stock 2g lower return.
     
  21. rampridersrider

    rampridersrider Proven Member

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    DSC03316.jpg

    DSC03318.jpg

    DSC03319.jpg

    DSC03310.jpg

    7 blade HX35, stock 12cm twinscroll housing, FP2 cams, stock intake manifold, ebay DNP knockoff exhaust manifold, cheap ebay FMIC. Forged 2.0 with 8.5:1 compression.

    No denting of the water pipe, in fact I have tons of room even without a spacer between the head and manifold. I also have tons of room between the compressor and radiator.

    Usualy see 20 psi by 4200-4300 and 30 psi by 4500-4600. 53.5 lbs/min at 30 psi. I think with a better intercooler, exhaust manifold, and SMIM I would easily max this turbo out at this boost level, but right now the car is ####ing moving. I have a log, but the clutch is slipping in it so RPM and Speed deviate between 65-85 mph.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Clean ass engine bay!!!!! nice! 1.5sec 70-90 with a stock intake manifold and a slipping clutch OMG
     

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  23. slow4g6392tsi

    slow4g6392tsi Proven Member

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    Hi. I hope it is alright to post this question here. Which variation of the hx40 do I have? It is 6 blade and on the tag it says hx40w. I thought I had read somewhere that all 6 and 7 blade HX40's were hx40pro but now I can't find where I might have read that and am starting to doubt it.

    Here is a pic.
     

    Attached Files:

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  24. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Some 6blade compressor hx40s have 56mm compressor wheels. You will need to measure the compressor inducer (minor) diameter. Some times they are 60mm, sometimes they are 56mm, sometimes they are upgraded and the compressor housing is cut. Never buy a turbo without getting pics of the wheel measurements.
     

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  25. slow4g6392tsi

    slow4g6392tsi Proven Member

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    So that would mean I need to take the turbo apart right? How do you do that?
     

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