Holset Turbos, PART 6

[604CruisinCroat]

Can somebody give me a Cummins part number for an 8 blade HX40 with 12 or 14^cm housing?

Billet wheel as well?

 

[darkhorizon]

Had a 3000lb HE351 powered fiero with a BONE STOCK 3.8L and 17psi of boost at the track a few days ago.

Went 11.7 at 123 running lean on e85 and bouncing off valve float.

YouTube - Turbo Fiero 11.74@123 17psi

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^^That car sounds amazing!!!! I love the 3.8L. It so makes me want to finish my fathers GN/holset project. . .

 

[viperlp01]

Im having some tuning issues.. It might be fuel related.. I cant seem to get myself to get back to low 11 AFR.. Its sticking at mid to high 11s causing me to knock..

If you look at my first log this is a roll from 46 up to *** I reach full boost in 1.3ish seconds.. You can see when i hit full boost when the maf raw / lb/min kinda peaks all of a sudden the smoothly rises..

My second log is a 3rd gear roll from 2k.. You can see i hit full boost by 3700.. The little peak shows the peak again.. I think the peak is my wastegate opening and bring the boost back down ..

 

[TxR6guy]

Im looking at a Holset for a friend of mine and i have question, the holset i found has a vband connection for the compressor housing, will that still work on a Dsm.

 

[kp116]

Im looking at a Holset for a friend of mine and i have question, the holset i found has a vband connection for the compressor housing, will that still work on a Dsm.

Yes. My hx40 had a v-band on the compressor housing but all I did is grind down the lip and a 2.5" I.D. couple fits onto it fine.

 

[viperlp01]

I think he is talking about the comp cover connecting to the chra.. Yes my wh1c has that type of clamp holding it on.. H** series has v band clamps holding the comp covers to the chra while the hx** series has the c clip.. Make sure you find out which on it is if you plan on going with a bolt on housing..

 

[darkhorizon]

^^^^That car sounds amazing!!!! I love the 3.8L. It so makes me want to finish my fathers GN/holset project. . .

Without turbo's, 3800's sound like nails on a chalkboard. Its strange that you add a turbo and 3800s instantly sound cool, and actually make horsepower.

 

[big_d]

I figured this might spur up a discussion. Dsm-onster, here is a small H1C off of a 90 non intercooled cummins. In the beginning of the holset threads you list the small h1c's having 7 blade compressors but the one I have here is an 8 blade. She's pretty clean for a 90, and should be well suited for my brother's fwd. Have you seen this particular H1C before?

 

[TxR6guy]

I think he is talking about the comp cover connecting to the chra.. Yes my wh1c has that type of clamp holding it on.. H** series has v band clamps holding the comp covers to the chra while the hx** series has the c clip.. Make sure you find out which on it is if you plan on going with a bolt on housing..

Yeah thats what im talking about, so yes i guess it will work?

 

[viperlp01]

What are your plans with that turbo^^ If you want to put a .55ar housing on it you must know what it is. The (w)h1c holset take a hx35 housing the (w)h1e takes a hx40 housing.. Im faily confient you dont have a hy series becuase the have a vband on the hot side not the comp side...

 

[TxR6guy]

Here it is HOLSET HX40 TURBOCHARGER T3:eBay Motors (item 280412104483 end time Oct-25-09 20:39:03 PDT)

He is wanting to put a Dsm housing on it.

 

[viperlp01]

Ya that is a WH1E.. and i think it cost too much for how old it is.. It is -1994.. Get an account on cumminsforum.com and start looking on there.. You can find some great deals.. i got mine for 150 shipped... That might not even fit in the hx40 housing..

 

[TxR6guy]

Will do appreciate it.

 

[dsm-onster]

I figured this might spur up a discussion. Dsm-onster, here is a small H1C off of a 90 non intercooled cummins. In the beginning of the holset threads you list the small h1c's having 7 blade compressors but the one I have here is an 8 blade. She's pretty clean for a 90, and should be well suited for my brother's fwd. Have you seen this particular H1C before?

I have a big h1c from an INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 truck .

The small h1c came with 7 and 8blade combinations. looks like to 50/52mm inducer. I SUSPECT that turbo compressoy you have flows as much as an 18g compressor. The diesel shops say the big h1c flows about as much as a50trim (the same flow as a 20g). There's also a BABY h1c which has a bolton compressor housing and a 45mm inducer. Not worth the upgrade over a small 16g, IMHO. The Wh1c has the same compressor as the 8blade hx35 which flow about 3lb/min MORE than the 50-trim or 20g. We have a map of that hx35 compressor.

 

[big_d]

Aha, I didn't know the small H1c's came in 7 and 8 blade configurations. This one has a 50mm inducer. With a cheap rebuild and some cleaning I'd say he got good deal for $50. The wheels are in excellent condition and there is literally no play but a rebuild never hurts. I'll have to look up the compressor map but I'm hoping this will be well suited for a fwd. I never really found any pictures of the small H1c, just the baby H1c.

 

[dsm-onster]

This compressor SHOULD flow in the 45lb/min range. That's beyond the evo3 16g compressor in flow. The best thing about this turbo is that the HOTSIDE will flow quite a bit more than the 16g hotside. So you will still have all the benfits of a holset over a td05h turbo: similar spool, more flow at the same psi( much better for pump gas). And you will have a little more total flow in the end too. for what you paid that's a heck of a deal!!!!! Good buy man.


BTW, if you EVER find a confirmed small h1c compressor map, PLEASE post it here. PLEASE! we have NO h1c maps except the baby and the wh1c (8blade hx35). The bigh h1c and the small h1c are good turbos and so easy to find used, but we don't ahve a map to reference. We just have to take a gues based on what the diesel shops say and what some have done with these turbos. . .

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

This is for the hx-35 7-blade with the bep .55 housing guys. First let me say you're going to have to take this with a grain of salt and I'll explain that later.

I was out tunning my 1650 injectors. When I first went out it was around 60'f and was tunning at around 26psi. I went to the "shop" for a while, annd it got a good bit colder (50'f).

Just before I got to my house I dicided to punch it as I turned into my road. This was the result. I hit 57 lb/min at 28 psi during a spike, then shifted and blew a ic pipe after the gm so ignore the small 2nd gear pull.

On to the cons, this was in first gear, for a small pull in much colder weather. But there is hope for these turbos in the small housing.

 

[viperlp01]

That doesn't seem possible to hit 57 lbs a min at 28 psi in first gear... Was it wet out??? That would be 17lb/min over my 20psi pulls.. If it is wet the maf can get water on it and send the reading through the roof.. I seriously doubt that is correct.. If i hit anywear near 57 lbs.min in first i would be spinning like crazy.. I spin all 4 at 30+ lb/min in first..

 

[My1GLaser]

If you could do a 3rd gear pull from about 2500rpm to redline that would be better to see. It doesn't appear that your boostest is off too far, but 1st gear happens so fast that you aren't at 100% VE long enough to get a good look and aren't really in full boost quite yet either. I can't remember how much difference there is in boostest at 50*. I believe that it assumes 70* in the calculation...maybe its 80*. I know there is a correction factor on the Link forum for the temp difference when calibrating airflow.

Plus it would be nice to see your 70-90 times.

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

Thats why I was saying take it with a grain of salt. I was seeing lower 50-53 lb/min at around 25psi.

No there was no rain either. I'm going to try to get back out there wed. since it's raining today to up the boost and tune some more.

 

[viperlp01]

Well since its been 2 weeks since i submitted my tech article i guess they didn't like it. I even stated it wasn't finished yet and i was going to add to it when i saw it was posted.. Its just hard to remember everything you did a month later and try to post a tech article then. SOooo.. Im just going to post it here..

Ok a list of everything i bought.. everything
Wh1c of a 94 intercooled 5.9 cummins
BEP .55ar housing(bolt on dsm)
PR 38mm recirc o2 housing
Tial 38mm ext gate
-4an stainless feed line
I made my oil feed to turbo fitting(will go into detail when i edit this)
My buddy gave me the OFH to -4an line fitting. It come with the extreme kit
I bought a t3 oil drain fitting off ebay for $11 shipped
I payed $2 dollars for oil resistant 3/4in(19mm) tubing from napa..
I used a 2g oil drain(it is the bigger of the two stock return lines)
Oil resistant rtv gasket maker
3/4in worm clamps for the oil drain
m8x1.25x(short) bolt for the oil drain fitting to turbo
stock m6 bolts for the oil drain to pan
2- 1/2x2(I believe they were 2in long) bolts, lock washers, nuts for the PR o2
housing to DP
I bought m6x1.25 cap screws for my tial wastegate..
14mm x 1.5 bolt for the old collant line(You will see what I am talking about)
extra vacumm line for the ext gate
extra radiator hose.. for the thermostat housing to oil filter.

Ok i didn't take any pictures of me removing the boring 16g .. I did remove the fans but left the radiator in.

Some info before i start.. If you get a used turbo the hotside is ussualy extremely hard to get off. The rust and heat almost weld the two together it seems.. I had spray pb blaster muliple times and then used map gas and a BFH to pound it off. You hold the turbo in your non dominant hand and hit it off in a cicular motion so the housing come off straight and doesn't hurt the exducer blades..(thanks jusmx141)

Another thing is some of the holsets come with a v-band compressor outlet.. It is a 2.5 v-band outlet if you do decided to keep it but i just grinded mine off so I can fit a coupler on it.. I stuffed a rag in the outlet so no debri would get in there.. There is another line on the outlet that i grinded to.. You will see it when you start..

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Ok to start you must seriously dent the hell out of your water pipe.. I found it easier to dent it evenly in about a 4-6in long on the water pipe and exactly on the mount.. You can see in my pic where i dented the water pipe not just on the mount but on both sides.. I think that took some of the stress off just smaking the mount. You can also see in that pic that there is a 14m bolt that threads into the existing water return line for the turbo.. That has to go.. It is a 14mm x 1.5 bolt. What I did was went to the local hardware store and bought the shortest one and bought a nut as well.. I put it on the vise and use the nut as a guide.. I turned the nut maybe one turn and cut the bolt off.. Then you use the nut to rethread the bolt where it was cut off.. I used thread tape and a copper washer to prevent leaking from there..

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Ok to make things alot easier take your ex. manifold off. I tried to do it without taking it off but it is just not possible.. Bolt up the ex mani, turbo and oil feed line .. I had to point my oil feed toward the driverside alittle or it would hit the waterpipe.. I left the o2 housing off right now because it was easy to bolt it up with the turbo mounted.. When i installed the turbo i couldn't clock my housing like i wanted to so I had to make a decision.. I decided to grind away at the block just alittle.. In the middle of this pic you can see my problem. The tranny/block mount is in the way.. I grinded off just enough to make room to clock my housing straight down

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So assuming you got everything bolted up ok i ran my oil feed line to the OFH. I am not running a resistrictor because I have a completely stock block.( I think i should now after driving on it for a while) I removed the plug that is on the top front side of the OFH. It is feed with clean oil. I used a 3/4in socket to get it off.. I finished hooking everything up.

Next is the coolant to oil filter housing.. Since we are so unlucky to have a water cooled OFH we have to make provisions for this.. The turbo will not let you run your stock hard line down the the OFH.. I used soft rad hose and ran it down between the block and the turbo. I will post pics of what i do to fix this as it is not permanent.

Ok the oil drain.. The t3 fitting i ordered of ebay is not the holset recommended size.. Im thinking about ripping it off and machining it today to make it just alittle bit bigger.. But anyways what i did was cut the stock 2g return line right above the flex part. I left enough room to get a good clamp on it.. I then apllied a bead of black rtv around the oil return and slipped my hose over it. they say to leave it loose for about an hour to let the gasket maker set before you clamp it down.. So I did that .. just for reference i used a 5in peice.. I installed it and it works pretty good.. Im leaking alittle bit at the top fitting but no leaks anywhere else.


Im taking a break but i am posting it so i dont loose it .. Im going to take some pics today of all the little things like oil return ect..

 

[dsm-onster]

Maybe the article got lost when they did the upgrades to the site. they are still working out some things since the upgrade. I'd contact a moderator tactfully. But good so far from what I see.

This is for the hx-35 7-blade with the bep .55 housing guys. First let me say you're going to have to take this with a grain of salt and I'll explain that later.

I was out tunning my 1650 injectors. When I first went out it was around 60'f and was tunning at around 26psi. I went to the "shop" for a while, annd it got a good bit colder (50'f).

Just before I got to my house I dicided to punch it as I turned into my road. This was the result. I hit 57 lb/min at 28 psi during a spike, then shifted and blew a ic pipe after the gm so ignore the small 2nd gear pull.

On to the cons, this was in first gear, for a small pull in much colder weather. But there is hope for these turbos in the small housing.

I've bgeen the biggest pusher of guys running a bigger housing with the 7blade hx35 or just getting an 8blade version, unless you want to go t3 later. I can see topping out the 7blade compressor using the bolton housing being possible. I've always been one to try to help someone get a BALANCED turbo and use other avenues to increase spool speed. But hey, if guys can get 42-45lb/min out of a pitiful 7cm^2 turbine housing with the td05h turbine wheel, then it's definately something that can be done. The BEP housing is so much better than the mhi housing. . .

 

[viperlp01]

Ya I dont care if it makes it as long as it is posted so people know the amount of work needed and it will help them get a parts list together

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

I've bgeen the biggest pusher of guys running a bigger housing with the 7blade hx35 or just getting an 8blade version, unless you want to go t3 later. I can see topping out the 7blade compressor using the bolton housing being possible. I've always been one to try to help someone get a BALANCED turbo and use other avenues to increase spool speed. But hey, if guys can get 42-45lb/min out of a pitiful 7cm^2 turbine housing with the td05h turbine wheel, then it's definately something that can be done. The BEP housing is so much better than the mhi housing. . .

I agree with you on turning this into a t3 setup. I couldn't justify the cost of a new manifold, wastegate, downpipe at the time I went with the holset. I do plan on going t3 eventualy but at the moment I'm going to push what I have as far as I can.