Holset Turbos, PART 4

[dsm-onster]

The super 40 is a 6-blade or it's later revision a 7-blade. They both have a 60mm inducer. The 6-blade flows slightly more, the 7-blade is slightly more efficient. We just talked about this . You have a 7-blade super 40. 60mm inducer, 84mm exducer. . . Or hopefully you have a 60mm inducer, since you have a 7-blade. . . the hx35 has a 7blade 56mm inducer

 

[propeine]

the hx35 has a 7blade 56mm inducer

Or 7 blade 54mm or 8 blade 56mm. I polished the wrong compressor housing or else I would never have noticed the size difference. Now I gotta polish another one and trust me that will make me remember they are different forever.

Oh ya, i was also looking at the exhaust housing the other day. The stock internal wastegates on the HX35 only dumps from one of the volutes. I realize it changes the VE of the motor on two of the cylinders if run with the stock housing but...how bad can it really be if Cummins/Holset has been running this setup for years. Maybe this is ok on diesels only? I was just thinking about the guys that are running two externals for true divided housings etc.

 

[Mike1992]

New times on the Holset HX-35. He would have definately bumped into a 10sec ET if he could achieve a 1.6-1.7sec 60Ft. if he were running 30si and a better lauch, that would have sealed the deal for 10sec. 11.29sec @ 126.12MPH

272s, stock intake manifold, stock transmission (no high rpm shifting), stock 2.0L block, bolton BEP housing with evo3 exhaust manifold, GM MAFT and DSMLink. 500whp trap speed (126.12) with a stock 1g awd weight at 1600feet altitude with 225 50 series street radials.

. . . Faster than any fpgreen powered car within 200lbs of full weight listed in dsmtimes.org.

It's funny to see that ol' Talon still being talked about a year after its been out of my posession. The engine was a stock 6-bolt block re-ringed with only 135psi of compression across the board. Stock head with no porting and BC 272 cams. I continuously revved this engine out to 8k on many factory parts. The car wasn't stock weight, everything behind the front seats was stripped out. I couldn't get traction for the life of me in that car. With full on race gas (to keep the knock away) and some stickier tires I have no doubt that car would have hit some 10 sec time slips.

 

[Slippi84]

The super 40 is a 6-blade or it's later revision a 7-blade. They both have a 60mm inducer. The 6-blade flows slightly more, the 7-blade is slightly more efficient. We just talked about this . You have a 7-blade super 40. 60mm inducer, 84mm exducer. . . Or hopefully you have a 60mm inducer, since you have a 7-blade. . . the hx35 has a 7blade 56mm inducer

Ok it's early I'm on the same page this seller is advertising the exducer size instead of the inducer size WTF That's like someone bragging about their SC61 has a 82mm wheel

 

[Slippi84]

Or 7 blade 54mm or 8 blade 56mm. I polished the wrong compressor housing or else I would never have noticed the size difference. Now I gotta polish another one and trust me that will make me remember they are different forever.

Oh ya, i was also looking at the exhaust housing the other day. The stock internal wastegates on the HX35 only dumps from one of the volutes. I realize it changes the VE of the motor on two of the cylinders if run with the stock housing but...how bad can it really be if Cummins/Holset has been running this setup for years. Maybe this is ok on diesels only? I was just thinking about the guys that are running two externals for true divided housings etc.

Because you have to regulate two different streams of exhaust. Remember they are seperate the entire way and regulating one stream would not stop from overboosting because the exhaust flow from the other stream will continue to increase unregulated.

Punsihment and shearer only offer dual wastegate options with both of their divided manifolds.

 

[propeine]

Because you have to regulate two different streams of exhaust. Remember they are seperate the entire way and regulating one stream would not stop from overboosting because the exhaust flow from the other stream will continue to increase unregulated.

Punsihment and shearer only offer dual wastegate options with both of their divided manifolds.

I think you're missing what I'm saying. The stock internal gate only dumps from one stream. If you have an internally gated housing sitting there take a look inside.

 

[jkimes]

Is it safe to assume that a divided t4 6 or 7blade hx40 w 60mm inducer is capable of 500whp on pump gas and 600-700 on race gas using a 2.4liter race engine?

 

[Slippi84]

Is it safe to assume that a divided t4 6 or 7blade hx40 w 60mm inducer is capable of 500whp on pump gas and 600-700 on race gas using a 2.4liter race engine?

I hope so that's my goal . Yes it is safe to say that.

 

[Slippi84]

I think you're missing what I'm saying. The stock internal gate only dumps from one stream. If you have an internally gated housing sitting there take a look inside.

No i'm not missing anything. You have to look where the external's are mounted..on the collector. The internal is right next to or right after the turbine wheel however you want to look at it. The stock internal setup is like having a 38mm externall running off the o2 housing.

By the way I welded that inernal door shut because i'm running a dual 38mm external setup off the collector.

 

[Slippi84]

See this is a picture of a punishment racing divided houisng(the one I plan on running) The green is totaly seperate from teh red flow. If you regulate the red the green will still increase with engine speed(rpm) and keep increasing unregulated meaing it would be ALMOST as bad as not having a wastegate at all.

 

[propeine]

No i'm not missing anything. You have to look where the external's are mounted..on the collector. The internal is right next to or right after the turbine wheel however you want to look at it. The stock internal setup is like having a 38mm externall running off the o2 housing.

By the way I welded that inernal door shut because i'm running a dual 38mm external setup off the collector.

You would have to have exhaust flowing backwards through the volutes in order to be dumping from both sides of the divided housing. The wastegate has to be before the turbine obviously. I'm not saying its optimal but the internal gate is only dumping exhaust from half of the cylinders. If we could smoke test in each cylinder/exhaust runner at full spool it would show what I'm saying...I think

 

[b00stedtalon2]

My new HX52 is in the mail right now along with a JHRacing divided twin scroll manifold.

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I will post pictures of it all bolted up and the custom 4" exhaust out the front bumper. Look back soon!

Also, who ever said a HX52 is a T6 is wrong, it is a T4.

 

[Slippi84]

My new HX52 is in the mail right now along with a JHRacing divided twin scroll manifold.

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I will post pictures of it all bolted up and the custom 4" exhaust out the front bumper. Look back soon!

Also, who ever said a HX52 is a T6 is wrong, it is a T4.

That is just rediculous . If your hx52 is in the mail what is that turbo on there now? That thing looks like a s372. If a hx40 with .55ar can make 650whp that thing looks like a 1400hp turbo .

To the wastegate issue. You don't have to have the wastegate before the turbine. That's where you get all these people running off the o2 houinsing from. Hell punishment raicng has a whole line of o2 housings geared toward regulating boost of. AT the point where the stock internal holset port is the exhaust flow has already merged. It looks liek it's only one half but if you look closer it's both sides.

 

[propeine]

That is just rediculous . If your hx52 is in the mail what is that turbo on there now? That thing looks like a s372. If a hx40 with .55ar can make 650whp that thing looks like a 1400hp turbo .

To the wastegate issue. You don't have to have the wastegate before the turbine. That's where you get all these people running off the o2 houinsing from. Hell punishment raicng has a whole line of o2 housings geared toward regulating boost of. AT the point where the stock internal holset port is the exhaust flow has already merged. It looks liek it's only one half but if you look closer it's both sides.

Even with an O2 mounted wastegate the actual exhaust flow comes before the turbine. Sure the actual wastegate is mounted after the turbine but the hole that the wastegate leads to is pre turbine. I use an O2 mounted wastegate. If the wastegate was drawing exhaust post turbine you wouldn't be able to regulate boost. And no the flow is not merged at that point in the stock housing. At least not in the one I'm looking at. I'm posting a few pictures to show what I'm talking about. You can plainly see my finger only passes into one of the volutes not both. Oh and this turbo was brand new four months ago. Manufactured this year or last.

 

[dsmmike50t]

Google

GT42RWTFWTFWTFWTFWTF

http://www.jhracing.net/Twin_Scroll_T4.html

 

[Slippi84]

understood but I said before the turbine not main exhaust flow. All I meant was where it is physically reffering to the internal wastegate port. I think your smoke idea would be good but have two colors of smoke to simulate what I did with paint and the divided manifold. Then you would see that even though the port of the internal is located on that side the exhaust gas from the other side of that opening after flwoing threw turning the shaft still ends up going out that same port. I"ll let dsmonster or someone use more technicall terms to explain but in a nut shell the exhaust gass hast to go somewhere or it would just keep building up in that side of the chamber if they weren't connected.

 

[Slippi84]

Google

GT42RWTFWTFWTFWTFWTF

T4 Divided Exhaust Manifold 4G63 GT42R / GT40R

What does googling have to do with anything. I thought the pictures he was posting was of his actual setup I had never been to that companies site before just now I would not have known that was their pics. Not to mention a S372 is the same size as a gt42r and has the same style cover

Anyway 650 shipped I'm about to abandon the t3 idea just because of how much cheaper that is than the punishment racing manifold. How much do those usually cost?

 

[propeine]

Sure it has to go somewhere, through the turbine. Pressure differential won't allow that exhaust gas to flow from one volute to the other through the turbine wheel. I'll wait for someone else to chime in too as its pointless for us to argue. FWIW that internal port is damn small.

 

[Slippi84]

Sure it has to go somewhere, through the turbine. Pressure differential won't allow that exhaust gas to flow from one volute to the other through the turbine wheel. I'll wait for someone else to chime in too as its pointless for us to argue. FWIW that internal port is damn small.

I'm not trying to argue with you all and I agree dsm-onster will chime in I'm far from the technical guy I deal with real life stuff and less theory than most of the big wigs. The opening is crazy small and what's funny the wastegate arm is HUGE.

 

[b00stedtalon2]

That is just rediculous . If your hx52 is in the mail what is that turbo on there now? That thing looks like a s372. If a hx40 with .55ar can make 650whp that thing looks like a 1400hp turbo .

To the wastegate issue. You don't have to have the wastegate before the turbine. That's where you get all these people running off the o2 houinsing from. Hell punishment raicng has a whole line of o2 housings geared toward regulating boost of. AT the point where the stock internal holset port is the exhaust flow has already merged. It looks liek it's only one half but if you look closer it's both sides.

Oops yeah sorry about that. Not my setup, just the shops pics. Its an awesome manifold for the price that's for sure.

 

[propeine]

I'm not trying to argue with you all and I agree dsm-onster will chime in I'm far from the technical guy I deal with real life stuff and less theory than most of the big wigs. The opening is crazy small and what's funny the wastegate arm is HUGE.

Argue wasn't the right word for it. Discussion would have been more proper. I hate the theory stuff but having a Mechanical Engineering background I can't help but over think simple problems. Besides it makes me enough money I can have my shop someday...hopefully. Yea the wastegate arm is braced for tons of force against it, all for a 20mm or so hole. No wonder people that just bolt these suckers up have boost creep problems.

 

[Slippi84]

Argue wasn't the right word for it. Discussion would have been more proper. I hate the theory stuff but having a Mechanical Engineering background I can't help but over think simple problems. Besides it makes me enough money I can have my shop someday...hopefully. Yea the wastegate arm is braced for tons of force against it, all for a 20mm or so hole. No wonder people that just bolt these suckers up have boost creep problems.

Yeah but think about it like this if you were gonna run 35psi or up all the time it actually might not be that bad a setup. I gave up on internals after my SBR GT14 though

 

[TxR6guy]

I found another Hx40 that i may actually pull the trigger on a used one instead of buying a new one from Timturbo.

Following Specs:

It is a 12 blade, 75mm inducer, 64 mm exducer turbine wheel. It has a full 4" outlet. Size 16cm3 turbine housing.



Seeking the Holset "GOD" Dsm-onster approval first

 

[dsm-onster]

Does the hx52 have a 75mm inducer? The small diameter of the compressor? . . . If that is the inlet, then you're in for lag. And you don't have an hx40.

If that is the exducer, the major diameter of the compressor, then you don't have an hx40 either. . .

It looks like those numbers are discribing the turbine wheel which would be an hx40 or h1e. But which compressor wheel is attached?

I am definately NO holset "God". I know a little. But, I've been very wrong before.

 

[jkimes]

Anyone know if this H1e will perform as well as a similar hx40?

Compressor Housing : Holset "High Flow with Anti Surge" H1E with a huge 4" (101.6 mm) inlet and 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) outlet.

Compressor Wheel : Holset 60 Trim 2.363" (60.0 mm) Inducer and 3.268"" (83.0 mm) Major diam.

Turbine Housing : T4 Style Tangential Divided 22 cm (Close to .84 A/R) with a 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) V-Band exhaust.

Turbine Wheel : High Flow 2.518" (63.9 mm) Exducer and 2.918" (74.1 mm) Major diam.

Center Housing : Oil-cooled.

Turbine Inlet Flange Footprint : TO4 Divided.