Holset Turbos, PART 4

[propeine]

I contacted Dave Hall about once again getting a housing made for the 2003-newer HY because I have alot of those setting around. He's contacted his one distributer to see if the volume would be there. I'd assume, they could, again, crank out the older housing too. Now days you see 1 2003-newer HY for every 2 or 3 older HY/HX setups. NOt sure when I'll get an answer.

The HY's are the VBand Setup and 9cm^2 housings right? Straight T3 undivided. A friend of mine who posted a long time ago in one of the older holset threads ran one on his starion very successfully. I would think that if someone just came out with an O2 housing to stock downpipe location it would be easier than casting a new housing. Of course you would have to go with a T3 manifold then but still.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well the hy has the smaller turbine wheel. More in the t3 stage 2 range. . . Should give a great spool speed. But Probably not so much flow up top. . . Sounds good though. I know my brother would be reatly interested in a bolt on hy35. The faster spool would be great for his automatic AWD. As fast as an hx35 spools in the bolton housing, can you imagine the hy? If the tubine could flow enough for 450ish whp, this turbo would be incredible for a street setup.

 

[aero_sallee]

Holy he!! this is good to know!!! You could reach +20psi before 3200rpms! The partnumber for your compressor wheel is the same as an hx40 compressor wheel from my research. Did you measure the turbine and compressor wheel diameters? A turbo that flows as much as any hx40 that spools that fast is very !!!! If you can rig up a decent control for the VGT mechanism, then you're in serious business.

It uses a smaller turbine wheel than my HX40 did. I'm not sure if its similar to the HX35? I posted the measurements of the wheels back in the Holset part 3 thread as well as some pictures of the turbo, and VGT mechanism. The stuff for the HE351VE is on page 7, and the HE431V on page 9. I think the pictures of the HE351 must be on page 8.

HE351VE:

My HE351VE came today that I got off ebay. Immediately had to take it apart.
Took some measurements. The compressor measurements are approximate since it is a 7 blade wheel.

Turbine
EX 2.357
IND 2.755

Compressor
EX 3.38
IND 2.37

Looks like a ~60mm compressor with an 85-86mm exducer.

HE431V:

Picked up another VGT turbo. This one is for my dad to experiment with on his 8.3 cummins. It uses a brake air based actuator. HE431VTI is what is on the tag. The compressor is the same dimensions as my HE351VE with a larger turbine wheel.


Compressor
EX 3.38
IND 2.37

Turbine
Ind 2.99
EX 2.635

 

[Morphius]

The HY's are the VBand Setup and 9cm^2 housings right? Straight T3 undivided. A friend of mine who posted a long time ago in one of the older holset threads ran one on his starion very successfully. I would think that if someone just came out with an O2 housing to stock downpipe location it would be easier than casting a new housing. Of course you would have to go with a T3 manifold then but still.

They don't have to cast anything different. It's merely different machining code to cut the V-band rather than the bolt flange style. For that matter, they already cut Mitu replacement housings for the mitsu vband, so it shouldn't be that difficult.

The HY might not be optimum for most HP, but for me, I really don't care. It's bigger than stock, more reliable, and will make more power than stock. Simple as that.

It comes down to I'd rather buy a $2XX housing than buy a $500-$600 exhaust manifold to make it work. I intended to upfit several cars, so it adds up fast.

 

[dsm-onster]

I think Bullseye is gun shy of dsmers and there's not that much money in selling these turbine housings themselves to deal with the headach of too many DSMers b!tching about bolton housing flow and running internal gates for turbos that flow more air than 50-trims. . . it's a shame . We kick our own a$$ more than anyone else. We want to run what's been so proven that it's actually old tech. And then we complain there's nothing better out there that's proven.



Aero_sallee, your turbo has the compressor measurements of the 6-blade hx40. The turbine wheel has the specs of the hx35. And the vgt turbo your father has is a straight hx40 with vgt and the 6-blade 60mm compressor wheel.

So it seams that the VGT turbo you have is a hx35/40 hybrid with the 6-blade 66lb/min wheel. There's one here who PMed me a pic of his 60mm 8-blade compressor wheel. I don't know how many blades this compressor has, but if that VGT housing can be actuated to open up rather far, I'm sure your turbo will be good for 60-1 territory flow!!! and it spools to 15psi under 3K, . . .

 

[propeine]

I guess I was more looking at it as if Bullseye is planning on staying out of the holset game then many more shops are capable of fabbing an O2 housing than there are shops that can cast and machine an exhaust housing. I mean if you can get an O2 housing for the holset that bolts to stock downpipe for say $150-200 and punishment racing's $249 budget T3 manifold... you're still quite a bit more than the bolt on housing...damn I guess I didn't think that out well enough.

Either way if Bullseye gets out of the holset game it would still be nice to have some O2 housing adapters out there so people that don't have the skills or equipment to do a custom setup themselves could still have "bolt on" options. I mean you can always get a T3 exhaust housing machined to fit a holset and as I was shown earlier some of the borg warner housings will bolt up to the HX40. Either way you're buying a manifold.

 

[dsm-onster]

I guess I was more looking at it as if Bullseye is planning on staying out of the holset game then many more shops are capable of fabbing an O2 housing than there are shops that can cast and machine an exhaust housing. I mean if you can get an O2 housing for the holset that bolts to stock downpipe for say $150-200 and punishment racing's $249 budget T3 manifold... you're still quite a bit more than the bolt on housing...damn I guess I didn't think that out well enough.

Either way if Bullseye gets out of the holset game it would still be nice to have some O2 housing adapters out there so people that don't have the skills or equipment to do a custom setup themselves could still have "bolt on" options. I mean you can always get a T3 exhaust housing machined to fit a holset and as I was shown earlier some of the borg warner housings will bolt up to the HX40. Either way you're buying a manifold.

Well, I think it's a decent idea. A tubular o2 housing and a turbular exhaust manifold flows more by far and spool should be better. Couple that to the hy35 exhaust housing thats larger in area to a .55ar BEP housing and though you have a smaller turbine wheel it should do just as well as the hx35 in spool and peak flow. . .

The difference in cost wouldn't be more than $250 vs. running an hx35 with a bolton housing. And you have the option of running an internal gate with both options. . .

So DSM guy somewhere needs to try the hy35 with the intention of really pusing it. I think its got affordable potential over many of the other options out there.

 

[aero_sallee]

Aero_sallee, your turbo has the compressor measurements of the 6-blade hx40. The turbine wheel has the specs of the hx35. And the vgt turbo your father has is a straight hx40 with vgt and the 6-blade 60mm compressor wheel.

So it seams that the VGT turbo you have is a hx35/40 hybrid with the 6-blade 66lb/min wheel. There's one here who PMed me a pic of his 60mm 8-blade compressor wheel. I don't know how many blades this compressor has, but if that VGT housing can be actuated to open up rather far, I'm sure your turbo will be good for 60-1 territory flow!!! and it spools to 15psi under 3K, . . .

Both of these VGT turbos have 7 blade compressors rather than 6 bladed, not sure how much that changes things when they have the same dimensions.

The 351v is supposed to open all the way to 25cm, I wish I had used some clay before I mounted it to calculate nozzle area with it all the way closed.

I hooked up the wastegate actuator connected to the VGT rack to a boost source last night. This is a stock 14b actuator with no boost controller. It has enough travel to open the rack all the way. Its what an 11psi actuator? The exhaust pressure forces it open at 7-8 lbs and slows spool slightly. Even with the rack open all the way via the actuator , the boost starts climbing as RPM rises. 12psi occurs at 3900 and 24 psi at 4400. Going to try a ball/spring boost controller on it and see if I can keep the earlier spool. Otherwise I may try wiring up the MS boost control.
I'm glad I included the 38mm wastegate into my manifold adapter though obviously its going to be required. I need a stiffer spring than the 4 psi one in it though so I can use it.

It sounds sort of like an electric cutout opening when the VGT rack opens up although it still isn't as loud. I think the vanes quiet it down quite a bit.

 

[TxR6guy]

Ive been digging around some local forums on trying to find a used Holset Hx40, before i purchase one from Tims turbo or other places im looking to run this one upwards 600hp in the end hopefully and ran across a guy willing to sell one to me with the following specs, i just wanted to run it by real quick to see what yall think:

60mm 6 blade 40/35 hybrid with a 14cm gated housing.

 

[Slippi84]

Ive been digging around some local forums on trying to find a used Holset Hx40, before i purchase one from Tims turbo or other places im looking to run this one upwards 600hp in the end hopefully and ran across a guy willing to sell one to me with the following specs, i just wanted to run it by real quick to see what yall think:

60mm 6 blade 40/35 hybrid with a 14cm gated housing.

That will def do it . Just be ready to run healthy amounts of boost. Bigman21 made his 650whp at like 45psi on a stroker. Of course that was with .55ar hotside but still 35psi+ might be needed.

 

[Slippi84]

Just so people can get an idea of the BEP housing .70ar vs a holset 18cm housing

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[TxR6guy]

That will def do it . Just be ready to run healthy amounts of boost. Bigman21 made his 650whp at like 45psi on a stroker. Of course that was with .55ar hotside but still 35psi+ might be needed.

Well unfortunetly ill be running a Mitsu hotside for now and possibly change out later on.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well, the hx35 hotside is too small for the hx40 6blade. The hx35 is designed for a 50 lb/min turbo. the hx40 60mm compressor wheel flows as much as the gt4088r. Don't expect hx40 results with just an hx40 compressor. The same goes with all turbos. Don't expect t4 results with a t3 compressor. . .

You have an efficient turbo up to what, lets say, the the t3 stage 3 can deliver. Your compressor can max out your turbine. Not the other way around. . . I don't think you know quite the nasty potential your compressor has. . .

Badman21 didn't do ANYthing with out the hx40 turbine.

 

[TxR6guy]

Gotcha thats kinda what i was thinking just needed a lil more knowledge from someone that knows.

So basically like putting on a 3' hose to feed a pump and you want 40lbs of pressure of water and you stick a filter on it and now it only allows 20lbs of water to pass through and it's defeating the purpose?

I know my analogy sucks but i get what your saying.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well, the hx40 turbine wheel spools very fast for what it flows, based on the results. And the .70 a/r housing is plenty for it. So what ever housing you can use with this turbo with the 6blade wheel is find for flow. The question remains: which spools faster the small bep housing or the twinscroll stock hx40housing with a proper manifold and outlet?

With either BEP housing, you won't be disappointed. No one has been so far.

 

[b00stedtalon2]

I will be running an Hx52 t4 16cm bolted under a JHracing twin scroll manifold. I will let you guys know how the setup is in a few weeks.

 

[propeine]

I would place money on the .70 BEP housing spooling faster but thats just bench racing. If I hadn't got such a good deal on the HX35''s I have I would have looked into the HX40 route and tried out the SBR divided T4 mani (or another) and a custom outlet. Divided T3 manifolds seem much harder to come by.

See now if we had bolt on O2 housings as an option we might have more info on which spooled faster. A shameless plug for my idea. A friend of mine is using my spare T70 (its not for the DSM) on his diesel so maybe I'll see if I can steal his stock downpipe and see how bad it would be to fab up an O2 out of it.

 

[dsm-onster]

Shameless plug? or Desperate DSMer? I think the latter. Try it! If it works, you'll know better from it and have something that works. And we'll all have something to learn that wil work, too.

I will be running an Hx52 t4 16cm bolted under a JHracing twin scroll manifold. I will let you guys know how the setup is in a few weeks.

Please do! Considering how fast the holset turbines spool though how much they flow, I'm really interested in how the larger turbines do. I know others are. . . I mean, if we are already used to the spool of an sc61 and we can get the flow of a gt42 at that spool speed then pte, FP, garrett, etc. needs to update their line up !!!

 

[Slippi84]

I would place money on the .70 BEP housing spooling faster but thats just bench racing. If I hadn't got such a good deal on the HX35''s I have I would have looked into the HX40 route and tried out the SBR divided T4 mani (or another) and a custom outlet. Divided T3 manifolds seem much harder to come by.

See now if we had bolt on O2 housings as an option we might have more info on which spooled faster. A shameless plug for my idea. A friend of mine is using my spare T70 (its not for the DSM) on his diesel so maybe I'll see if I can steal his stock downpipe and see how bad it would be to fab up an O2 out of it.

Not for the low ballers but this is what I'll be running with dual 8mm externals.

The 18cm housing is hug evein T3 form. It is literally 5-7 pounds heaviver and bulkier than the .70ar housing even without all the internall stuff. You can tell from the pics. I"ll be using a stroker for my setup but I think that with the right manifold a t3 18cm housing divided would spool as fast as th .70ar housing but make more power or the same power at less boost I should say.

Edit: By the way why are you so worried about a O2 housing setup? If you get a good manifold with a collector mounted wastegate hook up you don't need a o2 ousing just a bung for the o2 and maybe another for a wideband hook up.

 

[dsmmike50t]

Anyone mounted there hx52 yet. More pics please and can someone take a shot of there hx-52-55 next to there hx-40. I guess its safe to say that it should be like holding a gt4202 next to an hx40 right.

 

[biglady112]

I had to overnight my HX-52 to my friend out at the bonneville salt flats. He installed in on his built 2.0L and finished the weekend out. There were a whole bunch of troubles so no real hard data yet.

But it spooled exactly the same as his other turbo. 24psi(wastegate pressure) was seen at 6300rpm. The is with no modifications to the turbo at all. Said it pulled nice and smooth just like his other turbo.

Steven

 

[propeine]

Edit: By the way why are you so worried about a O2 housing setup? If you get a good manifold with a collector mounted wastegate hook up you don't need a o2 ousing just a bung for the o2 and maybe another for a wideband hook up.

Without Bullseye casting housings I'm just saying it would be nice to have a vendor built drop in O2 housing that bolts to our style downpipe. Not intending on having an O2 housing mounted wastegate with these turbos trust me. Not everyone has fabrication skills or the equipment to make their own. I have both I just had more money than time when I bought my bullseye housing. Look back a few posts and you'll see the details. It was more aimed at the HY originally due to the non divided housings but could be broadened to other turbos.

 

[jkimes]

I think I've decided on a Holset hx40 instead of a 4088 or an s366 like I originally intended to use on my car. Dsm-onster suggested earlier that I would probably want a standard hx40 (T4 hotside)with a 6 blade wheel ( I don't know if he meant 6 compressor blades or not) for best spool and power out of my 2.4. The only turbo's I've been able to find so far all have 7 or 8 blades on the compressor. I already have a divided t4 manifold. I don't know if the inducer sizes dsm-onster quoted to me ealier were the turbine exducer sizes or compressor size but he made it sound like a 6blade wheel with a 60mm inducer would be ideal. The turbo I'm looking at right now is a 7blade with a 56.6mm compressor inducer and a 76mm turbine inducer. The listing does not mention if it is a 19cm^2 A/R housing or not, only that it is a divided T4. Is this turbo well suited for a built 2.4 and 700whp?

eBay Motors: Holset Turbo Turbocharger Large HX 40 HX40 Diesel Hot (item 220270325218 end time Aug-24-08 14:13:58 PDT)

4" Inlet Diameter

3" Compressor Outlet Diameter

T4 Divided Entry Exhaust Inlet

4" Exhaust V-Band Outlet

Journal Bearing

800 HP+

Compressor Wheel

72 lb/min Air Flow

Ind: 56..6 mm

Exd: 74.71 mm

Trim: 54.8

Turbine Wheel

4" V-Band

Ind: 76 mm

Exd: 64 mm

 

[Slippi84]

I think I've decided on a Holset hx40 instead of a 4088 or an s366 like I originally intended to use on my car. Dsm-onster suggested earlier that I would probably want a standard hx40 (T4 hotside)with a 6 blade wheel ( I don't know if he meant 6 compressor blades or not) for best spool and power out of my 2.4. The only turbo's I've been able to find so far all have 7 or 8 blades on the compressor. I already have a divided t4 manifold. I don't know if the inducer sizes dsm-onster quoted to me ealier were the turbine exducer sizes or compressor size but he made it sound like a 6blade wheel with a 60mm inducer would be ideal. The turbo I'm looking at right now is a 7blade with a 56.6mm compressor inducer and a 76mm turbine inducer. The listing does not mention if it is a 19cm^2 A/R housing or not, only that it is a divided T4. Is this turbo well suited for a built 2.4 and 700whp?

eBay Motors: Holset Turbo Turbocharger Large HX 40 HX40 Diesel Hot (item 220270325218 end time Aug-24-08 14:13:58 PDT)

4" Inlet Diameter

3" Compressor Outlet Diameter

T4 Divided Entry Exhaust Inlet

4" Exhaust V-Band Outlet

Journal Bearing

800 HP+

Compressor Wheel

72 lb/min Air Flow

Ind: 56..6 mm

Exd: 74.71 mm

Trim: 54.8

Turbine Wheel

4" V-Band

Ind: 76 mm

Exd: 64 mm

That's a beautiful turbo By the way the 7 blade is MORE efficent than the 6 blade. I have been folowing yoru other thread so I"m not suprised you came here for opinions and suggestions. You def found the right thread. Go back and read dsm-onsters summary of the previous 3 parts and that will explain most of what you need to know. I would go for that turbo you poted a link too. I keep tellin you guys though don't post links just specs your just gonna attract more bidders . Good luck to you either way. Twick knows his stuff but holset turbos are just more logical for a dsmer. CHeaper yet sturdy and built to last and take a beating(hell they came stock on work trucks) and they are super efficent...nuff said.

 

[jkimes]

Thanks Slippi