Holset Turbos, PART 4

[dsm-onster]

It will perform very similarly. It is similar . In fact, the h1e bolts into the hx40 BEP housings. The diameters of the turbine are the same, the blade contures are the same, and number of the blades are the same. I havn't seen ANY h1e turbos with a 60mm compressor upgrade. This is interesting.

 

[propeine]

Looking at the wheel sizes and peoples past experiences with H1C's I'd say it should perform very similarly to an HX40. Which compressor wheel is on it just for curiosity sake? 6, 7, or 8 blade?

got beat to the punch

 

[propeine]

My new HX52 is in the mail right now along with a JHRacing divided twin scroll manifold.
I will post pictures of it all bolted up and the custom 4" exhaust out the front bumper. Look back soon!

Also, who ever said a HX52 is a T6 is wrong, it is a T4.

That is a damn good deal on that manifold BTW. $649 is cheap for any divided mani for our cars. Even SBR's cast one is $799.

 

[biglady112]

Boostedtalon2, a TRUE HX52 off of a REAL VOLVO SEMI is indeed a large/heavy frame T6 turbine. Or T5 or what ever you want to call it. I have two different T4 manifolds here, and they are not even close. The one you may have ordered may have been modified or someone put a different and smaller housing on. Just had to tell you.

Steven

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ This is what Jeremiah (Maglin) told us, too. He has an hx52 as well

 

[b00stedtalon2]

Boostedtalon2, a TRUE HX52 off of a REAL VOLVO SEMI is indeed a large/heavy frame T6 turbine. Or T5 or what ever you want to call it. I have two different T4 manifolds here, and they are not even close. The one you may have ordered may have been modified or someone put a different and smaller housing on. Just had to tell you.

Steven

Sorry to rain on your parade but a Holset HX52 (Yes the real volvo semi model) is in no where near a T6. Dimensions and everything are the same. The only true difference between a standard T4 and the Volvo HX52 T4 is the bolt spacing is a little different. Nothing that can't be tweaked for it to bolt up.

I have yet to see anyone post up a 52 on a DSM, Looks like I will be the first. I would love to see these guys post there pictures of there 52 setups. How about we have one of those guys that supposedly run this setup post a picture of the Holset flange then a standard T4 flange to back up what they have to say.

-Scott

 

[b00stedtalon2]

That is a damn good deal on that manifold BTW. $649 is cheap for any divided mani for our cars. Even SBR's cast one is $799.

Yeah not sure why a lot of people blow out money on Cast manifolds that are prone to cracking. ::

 

[Slippi84]

We should all talk about the same relative specs of a turbo when comparing. I feel like some people talk about the turbine inducer some talk about the compressor exducer some talk about the blades. While it's all relative it makes it harder to compare. The only real things you need are turbo type (hx40 super hx40 hx35 h1e hx52 ect..) and what footprint it has. If the turbo has some kind of upgrade then reference it but what each turbo "should" to have spec wise has been posted.

 

[dsm-onster]

Sorry to rain on your parade but a Holset HX52 (Yes the real volvo semi model) is in no where near a T6. Dimensions and everything are the same. The only true difference between a standard T4 and the Volvo HX52 T4 is the bolt spacing is a little different. Nothing that can't be tweaked for it to bolt up.

I have yet to see anyone post up a 52 on a DSM, Looks like I will be the first. I would love to see these guys post there pictures of there 52 setups. How about we have one of those guys that supposedly run this setup post a picture of the Holset flange then a standard T4 flange to back up what they have to say.

-Scott

No reason to get your panties in bunch . . . I see the confusion. After actually taking the time to look back before being a hole , I see that Biglady already admitted that he didn't have a t6 boltpattern. And Maglin has compared them and he notes that it is not the same pattern as a t4 but close (Which you noted, too). This confused us. Maglin's just mistaken about the width of the t6 pattern which is 4.4" not 3.75". This doesn't make either a bad person OR someone who is lieing about what they have. . .You know, you can quell the confusion by measuring your turbo instead of jsut posting the pic. If they measure the same as the others' hx52 pattern, then we all can come to an agreement.

I can't believe you'd actually imply that biglady doesnt have one of these. I get cranky too, but I don't imply that others are liars. . . You don't even know these people, but you'll question what's under their hood. You really should research this man. I don't think you know who you're talking to. This turbo he shipped to his buddy is going on his 1.6L colt. If you knew him, I don't think you would wonder if he's building a setup around his hx52, of which we've all seen pictures.

How about this? everyone is wrong. I have an h1e and my buddy with a honda has an hx40. Both bolt on to a t4 pattern manifold. If you have to tweek it, then it's not a t4. It's a holset. And At least for the hx35, it isn't even truely a t3 because you have to port the turbine housing for it to be a relatively smooth transition from the t3 divided manifold flange. These are holsets not garretts so none of the nomenclature really applies. A garrett t4 housing is designed for different wheels than what holset uses, garrett wheels. And other turbos like KKK turbos have a t3 shape bolt pattern but different actual entrances as well. . . . Just post your measurements. Leave out the implied accusations, please. This thread has been very informative and up beat so far. I am very glad you have an hx52 to play with. You're exhaust manifold looks great. Let's see some results, instead of negativity.


Slippy, the common way to identify the compressor is with the inducer diameter. We all say that we have a super 40 when we say we have a 60mm compressor. Anyone who doesn't do this, yes, confuses the rest of us. But I think we already have a standard: 6-blade, 7-blade, 8-blade hx40. And big h1c, small h1c, wh1c, and hx35 and hy35. . . Now hx52. . .I wonder how many different hx52 wheels there are (hx50-55 is a class of turbo).

 

[jkimes]

Will the T04 divided inlet flange on the 60mm H1E bolt up to my Dark Performance divided mani without problems?

 

[Slippi84]

Will the T04 divided inlet flange on the 60mm H1E bolt up to my Dark Performance divided mani without problems?

As long as it's a T4 divided manifold. Trust meI have a t3 borg warner houinsg a 18.5com t3 holset housing and a t3 5 bolt garret style hotside and they all bolt up to the same manifold without tweaking. I don't know about the t4 style but from my experience the difference is minimal enough that as long as you don't tighten any down before you get it started your fine.

 

[biglady112]

Again Scott, you are incorrect. I have a rev hard and a tubular T4 manifold. The turbo footprint is not even close. And my turbo went 192mph on a 1G last week. So it does exist and does run. You should look a few pages back and see that there are indeed a few other guys running them. Or at least own them.

Good luck with you project either way.

Steven

 

[aero_sallee]

I've seen people refer to the HX52 as having a flange that isn't standard. Pretty sure I read that on turbo mustangs. There are ebay sellers that have a flange specifically referred to as an HX52 flange, which seems to support that theory. I haven't had experience with an HX52 though.

 

[Slippi84]

Hx52 honda

 

[Slippi84]

http://www.siipicossu.com/manuaaleja/HX50_55.pdf

Great info

 

[jkimes]

I don't know about the t4 style but from my experience the difference is minimal enough that as long as you don't tighten any down before you get it started your fine.

Again Scott, you are incorrect. I have a rev hard and a tubular T4 manifold. The turbo footprint is not even close.

Steven

Sounds like slippi doesn't have direct experience trying to bolt a holset t04e housing to a t4 mani and Im not sure who Steven was directing his post towards. Does anyone know for sure whether or not an h1e with a t04 turbine housing bolt up to my Dark Performance divided T4 Manifold? Also, do you think this 60mm h1e is capable of 500whp on pump and 650-700 on race gas with my 9:1 2.4 engine?

Compressor Housing : Holset "High Flow with Anti Surge" H1E with a huge 4" (101.6 mm) inlet and 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) outlet.

Compressor Wheel : Holset 60 Trim 2.363" (60.0 mm) Inducer and 3.268"" (83.0 mm) Major diam.

Turbine Housing : T4 Style Tangential Divided 22 cm (Close to .84 A/R) with a 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) V-Band exhaust.

Turbine Wheel : High Flow 2.518" (63.9 mm) Exducer and 2.918" (74.1 mm) Major diam.

Center Housing : Oil-cooled.

Turbine Inlet Flange Footprint : TO4 Divided.

 

[dsm-onster]

I've measured my h1e with a dial caliper and the holes are spaced exactly like the garrett t4 mesurements. . . However, I don't know if the port of the inlet is the same shape or of some grinding to port match is in order.

 

[Slippi84]

Sounds like slippi doesn't have direct experience trying to bolt a holset t04e housing to a t4 mani and Im not sure who Steven was directing his post towards. Does anyone know for sure whether or not an h1e with a t04 turbine housing bolt up to my Dark Performance divided T4 Manifold? Also, do you think this 60mm h1e is capable of 500whp on pump and 650-700 on race gas with my 9:1 2.4 engine?

Compressor Housing : Holset "High Flow with Anti Surge" H1E with a huge 4" (101.6 mm) inlet and 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) outlet.

Compressor Wheel : Holset 60 Trim 2.363" (60.0 mm) Inducer and 3.268"" (83.0 mm) Major diam.

Turbine Housing : T4 Style Tangential Divided 22 cm (Close to .84 A/R) with a 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) V-Band exhaust.

Turbine Wheel : High Flow 2.518" (63.9 mm) Exducer and 2.918" (74.1 mm) Major diam.

Center Housing : Oil-cooled.

Turbine Inlet Flange Footprint : TO4 Divided.

Your right I haven't messed with any t4 HOLSET turbo housing yet but like I said holset used just about the same spacing for the t3 as garret so it's safe to say they did the same with the T4 housing and monster pretty much just confirmed it.

 

[airmail96]

Both of these VGT turbos have 7 blade compressors rather than 6 bladed, not sure how much that changes things when they have the same dimensions.

The 351v is supposed to open all the way to 25cm, I wish I had used some clay before I mounted it to calculate nozzle area with it all the way closed.

I hooked up the wastegate actuator connected to the VGT rack to a boost source last night. This is a stock 14b actuator with no boost controller. It has enough travel to open the rack all the way. Its what an 11psi actuator? The exhaust pressure forces it open at 7-8 lbs and slows spool slightly. Even with the rack open all the way via the actuator , the boost starts climbing as RPM rises. 12psi occurs at 3900 and 24 psi at 4400. Going to try a ball/spring boost controller on it and see if I can keep the earlier spool. Otherwise I may try wiring up the MS boost control.
I'm glad I included the 38mm wastegate into my manifold adapter though obviously its going to be required. I need a stiffer spring than the 4 psi one in it though so I can use it.

It sounds sort of like an electric cutout opening when the VGT rack opens up although it still isn't as loud. I think the vanes quiet it down quite a bit.

Sorry I'm having a hard time picturing this setup in my head could you get a picture of this as I have just stumbled upon a HE351VE and would like to eventually run it once my car can support it. Like did you have to do anything custom to mount the 14b wastegate actuator?

edit: Found picture of your modified manifold but none of 14b actuator controlling vgt.

 

[Slippi84]

My new HX52 is in the mail right now along with a JHRacing divided twin scroll manifold.

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I will post pictures of it all bolted up and the custom 4" exhaust out the front bumper. Look back soon!

Also, who ever said a HX52 is a T6 is wrong, it is a T4.

I"m mad I was just about to order one of these manifolds and he took them off sale price . Does anyone have his number I want one of these things bad.

 

[Slippi84]

I've educated myself a little more on divided manifolds and dual wastegate setups. If you only run 1 wastegate you have to Have a feed from both seperate streams like this

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The problem is yoru still combining exhaust flow from cylinders somewhat taking away from the true divided nature of the manifold and the housing. You still have to have both sides regulated somehow but having duel externals seems to be the only true way to have a all out divided setup.

 

[propeine]

I've educated myself a little more on divided manifolds and dual wastegate setups. If you only run 1 wastegate you have to Have a feed from both seperate streams like this

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The problem is yoru still combining exhaust flow from cylinders somewhat taking away from the true divided nature of the manifold and the housing. You still have to have both sides regulated somehow but having duel externals seems to be the only true way to have a all out divided setup.

Muhahaha you're correct....so far. I have an evil plan to make it so you only need one wastegate and still keep it truly divided. The one you pictured is how my 1jz exhaust manifold is setup. I don't know if it would spool faster with a truly divided setup or not.

 

[Slippi84]

Muhahaha you're correct....so far. I have an evil plan to make it so you only need one wastegate and still keep it truly divided. The one you pictured is how my 1jz exhaust manifold is setup. I don't know if it would spool faster with a truly divided setup or not.

From what I have seen not night and day different but it would spool a little faster because with this style your not totally seperating the pulses. That manifold is a lot cheaper than any other one I have seen too so I would be curious to see if the extram money is worth having a true divided setup. I want a JHR manifold but I can't see paying almost twice as much $ performance difference.

 

[delta448]

Muhahaha you're correct....so far. I have an evil plan to make it so you only need one wastegate and still keep it truly divided.

Mind if I speculate?
The flange to mount the wastegate will need a septum between two nostrils.

The one you pictured is how my 1jz exhaust manifold is setup. I don't know if it would spool faster with a truly divided setup or not.

If you keep the pulses truly separated then you get quicker response with the same or more max flow, w.r.t. x-sec area.

 

[propeine]

Mind if I speculate?
The flange to mount the wastegate will need a septum between two nostrils.

If you keep the pulses truly separated then you get quicker response with the same or more max flow, w.r.t. x-sec area.

You're pretty good! Might not be perfectly sealed but should be enough that it doesn't matter. I should have rephrased my earlier post. I'm not sure how much faster it would spool on the 1jz. I'm sure faster but not sure if it would be 50rpm or 200rpm or what. Its fully divided other than wastegate ports.