Holset Turbos, PART 6

[JWoodley]

I took a dremel to a steel one I got from extreme and made it fit. I believe I trimmed anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4" along the ID of the turbine and the WG outlet.

 

[benjimatt]

I need help greatly. Im trying to rebuild my he351cw But i cant find the parts.

Basically I cant find a rebuild kit and I cant find a new compressor wheel. (I know the compressor wheel is very similar to the one on the hx40 but what about the rebuild kit??)

These are all the part numbers I have found for this turbo
4037002 original part number
4089673 cummins part number
4043600 Holset part number

 

[toofast82]

I need help greatly. Im trying to rebuild my he351cw But i cant find the parts.

Basically I cant find a rebuild kit and I cant find a new compressor wheel. (I know the compressor wheel is very similar to the one on the hx40 but what about the rebuild kit??)

These are all the part numbers I have found for this turbo
4037002 original part number
4089673 cummins part number
4043600 Holset part number

It may be difficult to find rebuild parts because it is fairly new. Ones that had problems were most likely just replaced with whole new turbo under warranty. Thats why there are so many of the vgt ones for sale as well. Because of the soot causing issues, they are being replaced under warranty

 

[Ceddy]

I have collected just about all the parts I'll need for my Holset install, and its getting nice enough to work outside. Being laid-off has greatly reduced my car parts money, so I'm trying to find some cheaper alternatives.

I'm installing a WH1C in a BEP Mitsu Bolt-on housing.

I still need oil feed and drain lines.

I'll probably pick up ExtremePSI oil feed, because it looks like a nice piece for $35. But it looks like you could use the stock 14B feed if you got a 12x1.5 banjo bolt.

The drains are pricey though. $97 for SS with Holset adapter and stock oil pan fittings. And $87 for the blue hose.

Are there any cheaper alternatives? Like right now for my 16G I'm using the stock drain with the flex section cutout and replaced with hose. I have had zero leaks with it and it cost me nothing.

Unfortunately my Holset didn't come with a drain line. Are there any other cars that use a similar drain line that I could find at a junkyard? Or has anyone made their own line for cheap?




My next question is about injectors and boost.

I have a set of HRC 625s they flow 530cc at 43.5 psi.
I was thinking about turning the base pressure up to 60 psi, this would give 622cc.
Is this alright to do? I think the NT guys run a high base pressure without problems.

I know this is hard to answer, but what would be a safe max boost revving to 7500 rpms:
With 530 cc/min?
With 622 cc/min?





Also if you wanted to monitor turbo oil pressure, could you unscrew the plug next to the oil feed on the head and screw a gauge in there? Is it the correct size/thread?



Sorry for so many questions.
Thanks much.

 

[toofast82]

I'm installing a WH1C in a BEP Mitsu Bolt-on housing.

I still need oil feed and drain lines.

I'll probably pick up ExtremePSI oil feed, because it looks like a nice piece for $35. But it looks like you could use the stock 14B feed if you got a 12x1.5 banjo bolt.

The drains are pricey though. $97 for SS with Holset adapter and stock oil pan fittings. And $87 for the blue hose.

Are there any cheaper alternatives? Like right now for my 16G I'm using the stock drain with the flex section cutout and replaced with hose.

The drain should be same as t3/t4 so you could use your current oil pan flange and get a garrett flange and use hose. I would probably go with 4an line for the feed as well

 

[delta448]

I have a set of HRC 625s they flow 530cc at 43.5 psi.
I was thinking about turning the base pressure up to 60 psi, this would give 622cc.
Is this alright to do? I think the NT guys run a high base pressure without problems.

I know this is hard to answer, but what would be a safe max boost revving to 7500 rpms:
With 530 cc/min?
With 622 cc/min?

I would advise against increasing the base fuel pressure that high.

RRE Fuel Pump flow rates

Most DSMers use AFPRs that rise 1:1 with boost, so you'll have a fuel pressure of 80psi at 20psi of boost if you run the injectors as 622cc. I don't know at what point your particular pump might fail, but I know most fuel injectors will begin having problems at around 80psi or slightly more fuel pressure.

 

[aero_sallee]

I would advise against increasing the base fuel pressure that high.

RRE Fuel Pump flow rates

Most DSMers use AFPRs that rise 1:1 with boost, so you'll have a fuel pressure of 80psi at 20psi of boost if you run the injectors as 622cc. I don't know at what point your particular pump might fail, but I know most fuel injectors will begin having problems at around 80psi or slightly more fuel pressure.

The pressure the injector actually sees (that is the differential between tip and rail the only pressure that has any effect on it) at that point is the 60 psi he has as his base pressure though. Its not like a 12:1 fmu where the injector actually sees a 12psi increase in pressure differential for every lbs of boost. The 1:1 just removes the effect of manifold pressure from the equation. Now how his fuel pump will handle it, I can't say.

 

[dsm-onster]

Rewired, a walbro 255hp intank pump flows about 175lph at 90psi. 60psi base + 30psi boost = 90psi. 175lph is enough flow to equal 4 730cc injectors at 100%IDC. 30psi is a good round number to get into the topend of the potential of the wh1c. It's a 52lb/min turbo. But I wouldn't run 30psi with this turbo with 622cc injector flow. You'll have to log and see where your IDC will end up, but I'll take a wild guess that it will be at around 25psi that you will start to run out of injector at 625cc flow. Eitherway it will be about enough for 400whp, not much more. Which is probably all you want for now, right? At least you have a socketed eprom for down the road. Upgading your chip to something like 750s would be all you need for that wh1c. You can go to 1000cc injectors and have 2 tunes one for gasoline and one for e85. My 1000cc injectors idle like stock with gasoline.

I've had great success with ebay t3-to-mitsu draneline kits back with my 60-1. Zero leaks. Good flanges and gaskets. I think I paid under $30 for mine. But, for my holset, I used the bottem end of that kit and a turboford ('80s 2.3 turbo) garrett drain line. I had one laying around from my old t-bird turbo coup. You can cut it at the proper length to swap in place of your current 16g flanged topend of your drain setup. Volvo, turboford, k-car ('80s chrysler), GN, 280zx and 300zx all use garrett t3 turbos. And the h1c/wh1c/hx35/hy35/wh1e/hx40 is flanged to accept a t3 drainline.

 

[delta448]

The pressure the injector actually sees (that is the differential between tip and rail the only pressure that has any effect on it) at that point is the 60 psi he has as his base pressure though. Its not like a 12:1 fmu where the injector actually sees a 12psi increase in pressure differential for every lbs of boost. The 1:1 just removes the effect of manifold pressure from the equation. Now how his fuel pump will handle it, I can't say.

Correct. I agree with everything you've said.
I think my phrasing may have been misleading in my last post.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that the injectors would fail at 60psi differential and 20psi boost. The differential pressure is 60, however the pump would be seeing 80... does anyone know the point where the(any) pump fails?

Running a higher base fuel pressure would obviously require corrective tuning as a global larger injector size change. One thing to consider is the flow differences between injectors. Measured differences at 43.5psi will be quite larger differences at 60psi. Fuel injector flow matching becomes more important unless individual cylinder tuning is going to be used, which I'm going to bet anyone running a Holset doesn't want to spend the big bucks for. I wouldn't risk burning down a valve or piston just to stretch the reach of an improperly sized set of injectors, and put extra stress on the fuel pump in the process.

We should also consider that fuel has more mass per volume than air, and thus it has substantial momentum under high pressure. This is what damages injectors at high differential pressures.

 

[jrohner]

I wasn't trying to insinuate that the injectors would fail at 60psi differential and 20psi boost. The differential pressure is 60, however the pump would be seeing 80... does anyone know the point where the(any) pump fails?

Well 43psi base and 37psi of boost would equal the same 80psi, so I don't see how 80psi would be any kind of issue for the pump. I doubt people that run a lot of boost lower their base fuel pressure a bunch.

 

[need2boostpsi]

so i just bought another holset, a 6-blade hx-40 on ebay for $180 shipped i currently have an hx-35 but i wont more flow per psi. what options do i have? I was thinking about using the hx-40w wheel and cover on the hx-35 CHAR. or does it work the other way around. THE HX-35W TURBINE wheel on the hx-40w CHAR?

I'm thinking the hybrid holset with the stock 12^cm hotside will have great flow potential for pump gas.

 

[dsm-onster]

Were you going to run the hx35 with the stock holset housing? If you want more flow per psi you need to upgrade the turbine not the compressor. You need to run the straight hx40. One option is to machine the hx35 turbine housing to fit the hx40 wheel. A larger turbine housing, larger wheel, or both lowers back pressure and increases VE. Therefore more flow per psi. More flow per psi equals more horsepower per psi.

 

[need2boostpsi]

well i was wanting to use the stock hx35 housing and the hx40 compressor. i have the 7-blade hx35 so im not sure if i could gain some power off of the compressor side by going to 6-blade hx-40.

So Matt, your saying to machine the 12^cm stock hx-35 housing for the hx-40 turbine wheel?

 

[dsm-onster]

If you want more horsepower per psi, yes, you want to upgrade the turbine. If you already have enough turbine and wish to increase your flow potential, upgrade the compressor. What is your goal again?

 

[aero_sallee]

Correct. I agree with everything you've said.
I think my phrasing may have been misleading in my last post.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that the injectors would fail at 60psi differential and 20psi boost. The differential pressure is 60, however the pump would be seeing 80... does anyone know the point where the(any) pump fails?

I think this is what Matt is using for those estimates.
http://jayracing.com/images/products/Bosch_044_vs_Walbro_255HP_vs_Aeromotive_A1000EFI.JPG

 

[dsm-onster]

Actually this is where I'm getting my estimates. But the above confirms the same thing .

 

[aero_sallee]

Actually this is where I'm getting my estimates. But the above confirms the same thing .

Yes! Ive been looking for that thing again. Thank you.

 

[jshuman]

You too!! I order the same except i went with 9:5:1. Going to send the pistons out for some coating.

I dont know about you but I am pretty excited. Especially since they say the "safe" redline for that setup is 10k! It will be about four more months before mine is on the road though, but I cant wait to see how it performs with the hx52.

Are you using the aluminum rods as well?

 

[need2boostpsi]

If you want more horsepower per psi, yes, you want to upgrade the turbine. If you already have enough turbine and wish to increase your flow potential, upgrade the compressor. What is your goal again?

my goal is only 450whp on pump gas, which is not much even for a hx-35. the main issue i have is this is my weekend car, i drive it just for fun, with the occasional track visit. right now i'm at 40lb/min of airflow at about 20-21psi. I would like to increase my airflow while adding a little lag to the setup because the turbo will start to spool so quick its hard to vary throttle. the HX-35 hits very hard on my setup. I also plan on building a G4CS 2.4L so i want my spool to be even later with that motor not sooner as the added displacement wants.

So would i be better off using the hx-40's stock housing? or machining the 12^cm housing to accept the hx-35, or using the large BEP t3 housing?

I'm looking for spool to be around 4500rpms maybe a tad later.

 

[projecTSI]

I dont know about you but I am pretty excited. Especially since they say the "safe" redline for that setup is 10k! It will be about four more months before mine is on the road though, but I cant wait to see how it performs with the hx52.

Are you using the aluminum rods as well?

I too am putting together a long rod 2.4L setup! Except it is for my HX40, not 52. I picked up the Magnus 156mm rods and a new Eagle 4g64 crank for dirt cheap. And mine will also be months before it sees the road

 

[dsm-onster]

my goal is only 450whp on pump gas, which is not much even for a hx-35. the main issue i have is this is my weekend car, i drive it just for fun, with the occasional track visit. right now i'm at 40lb/min of airflow at about 20-21psi. I would like to increase my airflow while adding a little lag to the setup because the turbo will start to spool so quick its hard to vary throttle. the HX-35 hits very hard on my setup. I also plan on building a G4CS 2.4L so i want my spool to be even later with that motor not sooner as the added displacement wants.

So would i be better off using the hx-40's stock housing? or machining the 12^cm housing to accept the hx-35, or using the large BEP t3 housing?

I'm looking for spool to be around 4500rpms maybe a tad later.

You'll likely have the same spool and flow results with the 12cm^2 housing as the bep .70 a/r housing. Which ever is cheaper. You already have the setup for the 12cm^2 housing including the outlet. Buying the bep t3 .70 a/r housing would mean that you would ahve to also modify the down pipe. So I think machining the housing you already have is a better option. Unless you're trying to sell the hx35. Although many dsm guys would be interested in it without the housing. . . So what every you feel is the best option for you.

 

[Ceddy]

Thanks for everyones responses to my previous questions.

Great info as always.

 

[need2boostpsi]

so do all 6 blade hx-40's have the 60mm inducer? and flow 69lbs/min?

 

[GST95]

my goal is only 450whp on pump gas, which is not much even for a hx-35. the main issue i have is this is my weekend car, i drive it just for fun, with the occasional track visit. right now i'm at 40lb/min of airflow at about 20-21psi. I would like to increase my airflow while adding a little lag to the setup because the turbo will start to spool so quick its hard to vary throttle. the HX-35 hits very hard on my setup. I also plan on building a G4CS 2.4L so i want my spool to be even later with that motor not sooner as the added displacement wants.

So would i be better off using the hx-40's stock housing? or machining the 12^cm housing to accept the hx-35, or using the large BEP t3 housing?

I'm looking for spool to be around 4500rpms maybe a tad later.

Which hx-40 housing do you have?

On my car when i switched from a wh1c (8 blade hx35) with a 12cm housing to a 7 blade hx40 with a 18cm housing, my spool changed from 3700 to 5000. Hopefully that gives you a little bit of a reference. BTW, my engine was a stock 6 bolt with 272s and 136k miles and was starting to have a slight headgasket issue.

 

[need2boostpsi]

i have a 6-blade hx40w that i dont know much about