Holset Turbos, PART 8

[talonDSMerr]

No matter how I measure it, there is no way it's close to 54mm. Had no luck calling cummins, holset, several diesel shops asking about compressor wheel sizes other than the fact that hx35's have a wide variety of compressor wheels.

Already running a BEP with a wh1c! Wanting to switch over to a t3 footprint so I want that extra bit of airflow the 54mm 7-blade offers.

 

[bastarddsm]

Haha oh, #### it then, run the Wh1c t3. Realistically, it probably flows as much as the 7blade. It has a 2mm bigger inducer than the 54mm 7 blade. I'm running a wh1c in a 20cm t3 housing on a sfp t4 manifold with an adapter plate. The SFP is semi divided. Mine pulls very strongly to the rev limiter at 8k.

I'd but the bep on the lil hx and sell it as basically a green or super 20g.

 

[dsm-onster]

Realistically, there's a real compressor map that was produced by actually spinning the compressor to speed and showing the actual flow of the 56mm 8blade 7765ax compressor (7blade) and the 7755ax compressor (8blade) . . . Just razzing you.

But really. The 8blade wh1c is the same compressor as the 8blade hx35 and the 8blade hx35 flows 52lb/min and the 7blade flows 57lb/min. That's a big difference even in the "lab", which is nothing more than a place to spin your compressor as it would be spun in the engine bay. So, really, we do have real world results for each compressor per the compressor maps. And the 7blade is superior significantly. . . That's not to say that the 52lb/min 8blade wh1c/hx35 wheel isn't a nice wheel. It likes high boost and flows as much as an fp3052 compressor. Enough said.

BTW, a 20g has a 53mm inducer. that's over 3mm larger than the above hx35g wheel. It is likely not in the range of flow of a 20g. Though I do see hx35 inducers flow more than expected. But that is 3mm difference there.

 

[bastarddsm]

But really. The 8blade wh1c is the same compressor as the 8blade hx35 and the 8blade hx35 flows 52lb/min and the 7blade flows 57lb/min. That's a big difference even in the "lab", which is nothing more than a place to spin your compressor as it would be spun in the engine bay. So, really, we do have real world results for each compressor per the compressor maps. And the 7blade is superior significantly. . . That's not to say that the 52lb/min 8blade wh1c/hx35 wheel isn't a nice wheel. It likes high boost and flows as much as an fp3052 compressor. Enough said.

BTW, a 20g has a 53mm inducer. that's over 3mm larger than the above hx35g wheel. It is likely not in the range of flow of a 20g. Though I do see hx35 inducers flow more than expected. But that is 3mm difference there.

We have compressor maps, but if I remember correctly there were some assumptions made in the density to arrive at mass flow rates. Something was kinda sketchy in the deal. I know the 7blade has better aero's, but a 2mm smaller wheel flowing 5lbs/min more? Come on. Thats 10% improvment in airflow for a 7% reduction in inlet area. If you look at the REAL results, trap speeds and weights, they are both capable of the same power.

Also, the op doesn't have a 50mm inducer. He has a 51.85mm inducer, and a 20g is 52.6 thats pretty close.

 

[dsm-onster]

There's no assumptions all the actual test perameters (inlet air condition) is directily on the maps:

older 8blade 56mm hx35/wh1c (7755ax):

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newer 7blade 54mm hx35/hy35 (7765ax):

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Both at 85*F and 14.425psia. Lb/min axis is at the top of the map, directly showing the flows of each compressor.






A 20g has a 2.070inch diameter inducer. 1inch = 25.4mm; thus the 20g has a 52.6mm inducer. Yes, hense, why I said 53mm. This is the measurement of the inducer of that wheel. . .

I understand that, but I find it hard to believe I'm off 5mm because there are an odd number of blades. If it measured 52-53mm, sure. Even measuring the ID bore of the compressor housing gave me ~49mm.

Here's some diamters for comparision. the closest size is the big and evo3 16g. It has a diameter between a big 16g and and an 18g.

 

[talonDSMerr]

It'd be nice to see a compressor map for the 49mm holset compressor wheel. Just because the inducer is close in size to the 16g's doesn't necessarily mean it flows comparably to them (as is the case with the 56mm 8-blade wheel and the 54mm 7-blade wheel). The 16g has fewer blades but the 49mm wheel has quite a larger exducer, so I'm not sure what kind of conclusion can be made without a compressor map.

 

[Kevin TSI]

Does anyone know what different exhaust housings were offered on the volvo hx-52's? Also if anyone has any turbine housings around for one please PM me.


Does anyone know the turbine wheel size of an HX52?
Kevin

 

[iBoostDSM]

Just found this baby for 100 bucks. It's an 8 blade Hx35 and I was told it has 405k on it! A little beat up but with a nice rebuild and a BEP housing I think it'll make a nice friend.

But now that I look at it so large, is it fake?

 

[talonDSMerr]

Looks real to me! Nice find, but with 405k on it, definitely get a rebuild haha

 

[iBoostDSM]

Looks real to me! Nice find, but with 405k on it, definitely get a rebuild haha

Yeah I know a crap load of miles. Do you know anyplace around Chicago I should take it for a rebuild? If there's no one I was thinking of messaging jusmx when I get everything I need.

 

[talonDSMerr]

There are a lot of diesel performance shops you could take it to. Cummins has a service facility near Chicago, you can give them a quick call to get a quote if you'd like. Their contact info:

7145 Santa Fe Drive
Hodgkins, IL 60525
(708)579-9222

I know AMS most likely could rebuild the turbo but would charge probably more than you got the turbo for. PM Justin as well, he has tons of experience rebuilding these and his rates are really competitive, it seems like everybody in the dsm world turns to him when they need a Holset rebuilt.

 

[iBoostDSM]

Ok thanks for the info I'll have to check them out.

 

[Pirrofab]

If I remember correctly the hx-35 I purchased that came off of a pulling truck with over either 250 or 300k on it. Its been on my car for over 6k now and running 25 psi daily. NO issues. I would personally recommend a rebuild but if your on a budget like I was and as long as tyhe shaft play checks out then I would just use it and see how you make out, You may be surprised

 

[JusMX141]

As long as the turbo has no shaft play and came from a known-running engine and not something that blew and filled the turbo with metal, it's lifespan is literally indefinite. The only thing that you should look for is a wet or sticky turbine wheel which would signal a turbine seal leak.

 

[joescool2008]

Just found this baby for 100 bucks. It's an 8 blade Hx35 and I was told it has 405k on it! A little beat up but with a nice rebuild and a BEP housing I think it'll make a nice friend.

But now that I look at it so large, is it fake?

How could it be fake and look like that .

 

[iBoostDSM]

Lol I ending up buying it today for $165. I'm pumped to get it and eventually put it in. He told me it has normal shaft play and no leaks. I still have to beef up my fuel system and look into the oile feed and drain a more then I'll be ready to put it in.

 

[oldmanfrost]

I just purchased a wh1c for 175 with just under 100k on it... Came with the stock oil drain pipe as well. Thing i was wondering would i be able to make this work on my 2g. I'm a complete newb so any answer would be nice. Oh also i notice the feed part looks different from the hx35's so can i get some kind of direction how to make that work... thanks in advance.

 

[viperlp01]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ooler/352461-wh1c-hx35-install-2g-7-bolt.html

 

[oldmanfrost]

Thank you kindly

 

[JusMX141]

Dave's HX40 is ready for another season of racing- and hopefully a 9-second pass it's first trip to the track. His best pass of last year was 10.14 @ 138.25 with some issues stemming from a malfunctioning fuel pressure regulator. The low-end remains the same for this season, but the car received a new fully-ported 2G head, Kelford cams, and CB-spec JMF intake manifold as upgrades to make a little better use of the airflow the turbo is producing.

Dave is tired of breaking driveline parts, so the launches and 60ft times are planned to be a little slower and less-aggressive from now on....the goal for this turbo setup over the course of the year is 9.5's and/or 150mph.

I gave the turbo a rebuild basically because an oil pump failure mid-season last year gave concern that the turbo may have seen a little metal from the aluminum case....which actually did score the journal bearings a little. There was still no shaft play, no smoking issues whatsoever at the end of the year.

As you can see, no tricks to the eye- nothing but the same 6-blade 60mm HX40 any one of us can buy at a salvage yard or core distributor. The compressor cover is a candy purple, but the flash from the camera made it look black in the pics.

 

[viperlp01]

Would you think he would benefit from a twin scroll T4 housing? Are you opting for the BEP T3 for any reason besides the ease of a t3 manfiold undivided?

 

[JusMX141]

Would you think he would benefit from a twin scroll T4 housing?

I'm not seeing where turbine backpressure is an issue at this point- I recall he was logging around 67 lb/min at around 35psi in the cool air at the end of last season when the axle broke before he could get down the track; so I feel a twin-scroll T4 would be better-utilized on something larger like a S366.

Are you opting for the BEP T3 for any reason besides the ease of a t3 manfiold undivided?

He's been using an ERL T3 manifold and BEP .70 T3 turbine housing since the HX35 days when he won the B1 class at Shootout '09 on the stock 6-bolt, so we've just kept the same manifold and turbine housing configuration for ease of swapping.

There has been talk of making the car go as fast as possible with the HX40 then swapping a HX35 into it's place just to see what happens. I don't see why a low-10 out of a HX35 is out of the question- and to think that a turbo with a wheel spec similar to a Garrett 50-trim can run a low 10 is absolutely retarded....so I want to be part of that goal. I think the possibility of having both the fastest HX35 and HX40 times on a DSM excites Dave as well.

 

[viperlp01]

Are you guy logging back pressure at all? It would be interesting to see what happens down the road when you do decide to switch to the T4. Paul is going to be helping me mock up my twin scroll manifold for the HX40 soon. Just waiting for the block to get back from the machine shop so I can set the engine in and build the manifold around it. I am eager to see what happens. New shell this year with some different goodies that have me really excited to see what happens. There just really isn't that much info on people running the T4 TS. I am baseing my excitement off of people switching from a open t3 to a divded t4. The sun is coming out in Michigan and the itch to get the car done has started.

 

[JusMX141]

No backpressure logging; just giving it hell and hoping for the best.

Dave really has no plan to leave the T3 platform at this stage in the game. Once he reaches what he feels is the end of the road for the HX40, he may step up to a FP HTA3794R and stay there since that turbo is definitely 8-second capable.

 

[viperlp01]

Ok I was just wondering. Is it easy to tune? Any problems with knock?