Holset Turbos, PART 8

[nfernotalon]

Hey guys still having trouble with my set up guys. I finally got an oil pressure gauge on and at idle its about 15psi and at redline doesn't go past 80psi. The turbo does have some shaft but not too bad the wheels aren't touching. I can't get any boost out of it I'm not sure why. Is it because of the shaftplay?

 

[GORBS88]

Hey guys still having trouble with my set up guys. I finally got an oil pressure gauge on and at idle its about 15psi and at redline doesn't go past 80psi. The turbo does have some shaft but not too bad the wheels aren't touching. I can't get any boost out of it I'm not sure why. Is it because of the shaftplay?

Sounds like mabe a wastegate issue or a large boost leak. Even with some shaft play the turbo will STILL make boost.
I would check for a coupler that might have blown off first then mabe check your wastegate.

 

[nfernotalon]

Sounds like mabe a wastegate issue or a large boost leak. Even with some shaft play the turbo will STILL make boost.
I would check for a coupler that might have blown off first then mabe check your wastegate.

Thanks for the quick reply. You have no idea the things I have tried it is a new ebay tial look alike wastegate and opened it up seems fine. Tried hooking it up with my mbc and just off the spring and nothing. intercooler and pipes and clamps are brand new its vr speed factory intercooler. Everything is super tight. It just runs like an na motor absolutely zero boost. No exhaust leaks before the turbo just one in the downpipe.

 

[kp116]

Thanks for the quick reply. You have no idea the things I have tried it is a new ebay tial look alike wastegate and opened it up seems fine. Tried hooking it up with my mbc and just off the spring and nothing. intercooler and pipes and clamps are brand new its vr speed factory intercooler. Everything is super tight. It just runs like an na motor absolutely zero boost. No exhaust leaks before the turbo just one in the downpipe.

I have seen some ebay "tial" wastegaste leak before and sometimes there is a large gap where the valve should seat and seal.

 

[nfernotalon]

I have seen some ebay "tial" wastegaste leak before and sometimes there is a large gap where the valve should seat and seal.

Yea there is a gap there it also comes with a ring to put in place that seals it up. I'm not sure if the real tials come like that can anyone confirm this?

 

[doesitonall4rs]

This is the restrictor some of my friends and I are running: Turbo Oil Restrictor Aluminum -4AN - EBAY.

Looks really nice on that car man, even if it is a Honduh

As far as you and your friends running that restrictor, do you guys feed off the oil filter housing?

He actually just picked up a .078 "NOS" jet, I think we are going to modify his fitting on the turbo to accept the nitrous jet. I hope this keep his oil pressure down at the turbo because I really wanna help him dial this car in. But yea the set up looks absolutely nuts, I was pretty surprised how easily everything went in. It needed as much modification to fit as my DSM did .

 

[Mr Peepers]

Real Tials have a ring as well. I'm not sure if you are referring to Gig's wastegate, Kenny, but it may very well have been forgotten by the previous owner.

 

[GORBS88]

Thanks for the quick reply. You have no idea the things I have tried it is a new ebay tial look alike wastegate and opened it up seems fine. Tried hooking it up with my mbc and just off the spring and nothing. intercooler and pipes and clamps are brand new its vr speed factory intercooler. Everything is super tight. It just runs like an na motor absolutely zero boost. No exhaust leaks before the turbo just one in the downpipe.

Your also going to have to do a boost leak test, just looking at the couplers isn't enough. Get it hooked up and you may find a coupler with a rip in it somewhere that you can't get at.

Are you running your external gate to a open dump or recirculated?

 

[-red97rum-]

Hey guys still having trouble with my set up guys. I finally got an oil pressure gauge on and at idle its about 15psi and at redline doesn't go past 80psi. The turbo does have some shaft but not too bad the wheels aren't touching. I can't get any boost out of it I'm not sure why. Is it because of the shaftplay?

That's the exact same thing that happened to me and the shaft ended up being bent. I'm not saying that's the case here, but something to check. The shaftplay felt perfectly within spec, no in-out tiny up and down. When the turbo was starting the spool it would contact the inside of the compressor housing. I could barely see it was making contact by looking in the inlet of the turbo. Thankfully the turbo didn't spool or else it would have chewed up the compressor housing. I'm not sure how the shaft got bent... shipping maybe? Anyhow it's fixed now. It would make it easy to tell if your wastegate was leaking if it was dumped to the atmosphere as you'd hear it.

As far as you and your friends running that restrictor, do you guys feed off the oil filter housing?

OFH. I wouldn't run a restrictor if I was getting the oil from the stock location.

Here's my buddy Clint's write up in the holset oiling thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling-5.html (post #123) He's been using the same restrictor successfully for more than a couple months now.

 

[nfernotalon]

Yea I'm gonna have to go with a bent shaft or something with the turbo it also makes a horrible noise as it stops spinning when I shut the car off. Everything is literally new the wastegate the pipes couplers and intercooler. Checked and rechecked everything I've been at this since I put the turbo on its never boosted.

 

[Calan]

Got the HX40 installed over the weekend. I have a few issues to work out, but ECMLink is showing about 445whp at only 27psi without a tune, which is already about 90 whp above the e3 16g's average. Need to fix a lean misfire (I really need a stronger ignition), a small leak at the oil return at the pan, and work on spool up... but it looks promising so far.

Here's some pics; I'll update my build blog with more info in the next few days.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Here is the 3/4" ID drain. I machined an aluminum flange and welded a pipe to it to clear the motor mount, and then ran a hose to a welded pipe on the oil pan. (The motor mount is shaved and smoothed out just a bit). Oil is fed from the OFH with a restrictor. For the outlet, I cut off the stock flange and welded on a v-band flange that will mate to a 2.5" IC pipe flange.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

For the inlet, I fabricated a new CAI from 4" aluminum tube (Ignore the water spots. I need to do some serious under-hood cleaning once everything is nailed down).

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Mr Peepers]

Looks great Craig!!!

Bravo!

 

[Calan]

Thanks Matt. Can't wait to get the final issues worked out and start tuning on it. I may be getting close on fuel and need to address that, but first I have to get some better spark. I also need to go back to work on the cam gears to help with spool.

I know this thing pulls like a train though once it hits full boost.

 

[talon1979]

Calan, I really like your setup. I wish I would have seen yours before I did mine. Yours looks much more simple and like it would flow much better. I've spent too much money on my -12 return setup that I had to chop to pieces in order to fit w/ the 2g manifold.

For the record w/ my bolt-on .55ar hx40 I've had to dent my water-pipe, grind down where I blocked off coolant on the water-pipe, cut out a large portion of my motor mount, chop off a lot of my 12 an fittings, & hack the crap out of my stock fan. My lower radiator hose also touches my intake and the little rubber grommet/vent piece on the trans. This is on a 1g w/ a 2g manifold. I have my front balance shaft still in place w/ the rear balance shaft eliminated. I'm running a -3 feed to the turbo from the OFH. I have yet to finish putting the car together to check oil pressure.

 

[Calan]

It is definitely a tight fit and a PITA on a 1G. That damn motor mount couldn't be more in the way if someone purposely located it under the HX40 drain.

It took about 4 attempts to get the pipe to clear the mount and line up with the oil pan drain, and I still ground on the mount a bit to allow some clearance. (Getting the pipe welded to the pan was another PITA due to the thin pan). And I'm still not completely there...I picked up a different hose just a while ago to see if I can get rid of the small leak I have.

As for the oil pressure... straight from the head I saw <10psi at idle. From the OFH unrestricted I saw about 25-30psi at idle, and with a .08 restrictor at the OFH outlet I see about 18psi at idle, climbing to around 40psi at 5k RPMs.

 

[doesitonall4rs]

Got the HX40 installed over the weekend. I have a few issues to work out, but ECMLink is showing about 445whp at only 27psi without a tune, which is already about 90 whp above the e3 16g's average.

Hey man your set up looks really nice! How accurate do you think the HP estimation is in DSMlink? I just been wondering how much luck people have had with that hp estimation log vs real dyno results

 

[Gooberlog]

For the record w/ my bolt-on .55ar hx40 I've had to dent my water-pipe, cut out a large portion of my motor mount, chop off a lot of my 12 an fittings, & hack the crap out of my stock fan. This is on a 1g w/ a 2g manifold. I have my front balance shaft still in place w/ the rear balance shaft eliminated. I'm running a -3 feed to the turbo from the OFH. I have yet to finish putting the car together to check oil pressure.

I had to do the exact same amount of hacking for my HX35 on my 1g. It sucks, but hopefully guys in the future will read these posts so they wont be as surprised as we were. Man do i love it now that it's on there though.

 

[jrohner]

I thought it was a heck of a lot easier getting the Holset on my 1G than on my 2G. It seems like the water pipe sits out farther on a 7-bolt than a 6-bolt, plus there's the extra bellhousing bolt, and that part of the block hits the compressor housing. The only nice thing about the 2G is the position of the motor mount.

 

[nightracer91]

So where does everybody stand in the stock 12cm^2 twin scroll housing debate? I'm debating on which manifold/housing combo I want to run. If I do go with the stock housing, is it truly better to run the NON-divided as opposed to the divided? What's the A/R on that stock housing, like .73? Will my engine be able to choke out the BEP .55 A/R housing on the top end? See profile for build sheet. My goal is 450AWHP on Pump gas on a Mustang Dyno. I'd like to hit 500 on Race Gas. Just trying to feel around for some thoughts. There seems to be a lot of run around conversations I'm reading.

 

[jrohner]

So where does everybody stand in the stock 12cm^2 twin scroll housing debate? I'm debating on which manifold/housing combo I want to run. If I do go with the stock housing, is it truly better to run the NON-divided as opposed to the divided? What's the A/R on that stock housing, like .73? Will my engine be able to choke out the BEP .55 A/R housing on the top end? See profile for build sheet. My goal is 450AWHP on Pump gas on a Mustang Dyno. I'd like to hit 500 on Race Gas. Just trying to feel around for some thoughts.

My cousin ran one for a little bit on a cheapo ebay open t3 header. It broke 20psi by around 4300, but it came on pretty much all at once. If you can find a deal on a divided t3 manifold, the stock housing would definitely be the way to go. IMO the bolton housing can be a PITA since the turbo sits so close to the block without a spacer.

 

[GORBS88]

Craig, that's one BADA$$ oil drain!!

 

[nightracer91]

I'm trying to find some numbers both dyno and slips on both housings to help aid in weighing my options. As with every DSM, I'm also looking at a slight budget.

 

[talonDSMerr]

So where does everybody stand in the stock 12cm^2 twin scroll housing debate? I'm debating on which manifold/housing combo I want to run. If I do go with the stock housing, is it truly better to run the NON-divided as opposed to the divided? What's the A/R on that stock housing, like .73? Will my engine be able to choke out the BEP .55 A/R housing on the top end? See profile for build sheet. My goal is 450AWHP on Pump gas on a Mustang Dyno. I'd like to hit 500 on Race Gas. Just trying to feel around for some thoughts. There seems to be a lot of run around conversations I'm reading.

The A/R on the stock 12cm^2 housing is about .63. If you decide to keep the stock housing, the best way to go would be a divided manifold, but those aren't cheap to come by. You get all the flow you would out of an undivided manifold, but the exhaust is evenly split into two sides of the turbine housing, eliminating any interfering exhaust pulses from adjacent cylinders with valve overlap. Spool will be much better with the divided manifold and top end flow will be equal. Twinscroll with a divided manifold is the real deal!

 

[nightracer91]

My buddy has a tig welder and just finished a t6 manifold for a rotory. Turned out amazing. He said he could make me a manifold, however I want it, for about $400 parts and labor. I could probably just stick with the stock housing and have him and I build a divided t3 mani with external gate. That would actually save me a little money since I was previously pricing out the BEP housing and an FP mani (my tuner recomened it). I've got some more reading to do and results to look through.

 

[kp116]

I'm trying to find some numbers both dyno and slips on both housings to help aid in weighing my options. As with every DSM, I'm also looking at a slight budget.

Mr. Peepers has a stock 12cm housing on his hx35 with a twin scroll set up and he get full boost right now (25psi) by like 3500rpm's... Its retarded fast for spool time. Cruising at 60mph in 5th and punching it, it get 20psi just over 3k. He hasn't post a thread about it yet but he went 11.2 @ 129mph on street tires at the shootout on 25psi!!