Holset Turbos, PART 3

[ceedawg]

Awesome! try it out! Ask for help if you're stumped. . . maybe we can help . . .

I'm just waiting on Nicks shipment to get this h1c running!!!! Maybe it's a cheap alternative to the 50-trim/hx35/20g/s200bw/etc turbo.

How would that turbo be cheap if it mechanically fails?

 

[dsm-onster]

How would that turbo be cheap if it mechanically fails?

Why would it fail???

 

[ceedawg]

Why would it fail???

Read my ? again and carefully! I put the word "IF" it fails meaning that "IF" it were to fail mechanically,it would probably be much more expensive to fix compared to regular conventional turbo.

 

[aero_sallee]

Read my ? again and carefully! I put the word "IF" it fails meaning that "IF" it were to fail mechanically,it would probably be much more expensive to fix compared to regular conventional turbo.

Sounds like you guys are not on the same page.

From what he posted, he said maybe the H1C is a cheap alternative to the others. The H1C is the conventional turbo that he bought, not the complex one I just picked up.

 

[aero_sallee]

I hope I have it by next weekend so I can take it apart and measure the wheels.

It will probably be a while till I get it on the car. Its going to take a lot of fabrication to fit it.

School just started back up, and I need to buy something cheap for a DD. Sucks having this as my only car.

 

[JWoodley]

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Will this HX35 with external gate mounted here have clearance issues? Shed some light on it for me. I do have other pics I'll be uploading here soon.

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Here's number two. I guess I could find another way to mount the WG and grind off that flange although I'd rather not.

 

[aero_sallee]

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Will this HX35 with external gate mounted here have clearance issues? Shed some light on it for me. I do have other pics I'll be uploading here soon.

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Here's number two. I guess I could find another way to mount the WG and grind off that flange although I'd rather not.

It may or may not fit. Your biggest problem with the wastegate actuator mounted on the compressor housing is you can't clock the turbo. Hopefully it is close to where you need it. How is it situated compared to the TH? Are you planning on using the HX35 stock housing or a BEP housing?

I had my WG actuator mounted in a similar location. With no passenger side fan it fit fine. I used a 14b actuator with the mounting tabs slighty bent to fit.

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Edit: Your second picture didnt show up when I viewed the post.

 

[JWoodley]

Aero, try the second picture again. It will give you the relationship. It is already in a BEP housing w/ 38mm internal gate. If it doesn't PM me and I'll send it to you or try another host. Josh@GRE can get me a mount that goes on the backside of the compressor housing which might help a tad.

 

[aero_sallee]

Aero, try the second picture again. It will give you the relationship. It is already in a BEP housing w/ 38mm internal gate. If it doesn't PM me and I'll send it to you or try another host. Josh@GRE can get me a mount that goes on the backside of the compressor housing which might help a tad.

I can see it now.

I think that should work, or it will be very close at least.

 

[Maglin]

Oh I saw that map or mention to it a ways back and thought mass flow with in lbs/min. 87 lbs/min is actually perfect for what I want out of the turbo. And that is around the 45-50 PSI range.

And as far as the VGT turbo. I wouldn't worry about a controller. Gut the electronics and just kept the solenoid if it's one of the electricity actuated TH's. Then you can either use a hobbs switch or your PCM to control volute sizing.

And for the HX35 actuator issues. That current config will not fit on a 1G. I don't think the 2G shares the same front mount under the turbo so it may work on a 2G. I just took the Holset actuator and took out the torch and bent an extension rod that came off the stock actuator when the turbo was clocked correctly.

 

[kicker91laser]

Without reading a bunch of posts, can anyone tell me if the alignment dowel for the comp cover is simply removable or will it have to be ground away?

 

[GORBS88]

Without reading a bunch of posts, can anyone tell me if the alignment dowel for the comp cover is simply removable or will it have to be ground away?

There is no alignment dowel.

 

[aero_sallee]

And as far as the VGT turbo. I wouldn't worry about a controller. Gut the electronics and just kept the solenoid if it's one of the electricity actuated TH's. Then you can either use a hobbs switch or your PCM to control volute sizing.

I'm pretty sure the controller is a stepper motor and not a solenoid. I may have found something that will translate the PWM boost control signal from my MS2E to a stepper motor driver. If it doesn't work I will probably find some kind of solenoid actuator to adapt ot it.
The electronics on the turbo are just the VGT actuator, VGT rack position sensor and shaft speed sensor if I understand it correctly. The electronics are all in the ECM or a seperate box in the truck.
Here is a picture of the geared arm under the VGT actuator on a similar turbo. This is an HE431VE, mine is a HE351VE instead.

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I'll have to figure out more when it actually gets here.

The one in the pictures a guy on hondatech is selling.
Honda-Tech.com: Classifieds: Forced Induction: FS: Huge Holset VGT Turbo 600-700 WHP $500

 

[kicker91laser]

There is no alignment dowel.

So all that is reqired to clock the comp cover is to take out the snap ring and re-clock?

 

[dsm-onster]

No. It is not like an MHI turbocharger. It has a series of bolts that grab a circular lip and seal the compressor cover with an o-ring. Much like a garrett/turbonetics compressor. Loosten the bolts and clock it. The bolts close to the block are hard to get to with the turbo installed. My h1c has a v-band clamp instead . That's about the only benefit of running an older holset.

 

[kicker91laser]

My holset has a snap-ring on the compressor cover, not the bolted clamps.

 

[GORBS88]

No. It is not like an MHI turbocharger. It has a series of bolts that grab a circular lip and seal the compressor cover with an o-ring. Much like a garrett/turbonetics compressor. Loosten the bolts and clock it. The bolts close to the block are hard to get to with the turbo installed. My h1c has a v-band clamp instead . That's about the only benefit of running an older holset.

No, the hx-35 and the 40 do not have bolts holding the compressor cover on nor do they have a O-ring.

So all that is reqired to clock the comp cover is to take out the snap ring and re-clock?

Yes, you are corect. You can pull out the snap ring and clock the compressor cover however you want.

 

[aero_sallee]

Yes, you are corect. You can pull out the snap ring and clock the compressor cover however you want.

The snap ring can be a real bi*** to get on and off due to its size. After doing it a couple times to get it exactly right I found out its fairly easy to put a rod, piece of pipe or wood in the compressor outlet and use the leverage to turn the housing without removing the snapring. MUCH easier that way.

 

[Maglin]

I'm pretty sure the controller is a stepper motor and not a solenoid. I may have found something that will translate the PWM boost control signal from my MS2E to a stepper motor driver. If it doesn't work I will probably find some kind of solenoid actuator to adapt ot it.
The electronics on the turbo are just the VGT actuator, VGT rack position sensor and shaft speed sensor if I understand it correctly. The electronics are all in the ECM or a seperate box in the truck.

Being as the MS2 already has a stepper chip on it you might be able to make it work. You could maybe get in contact with Ken and James and see if they might be willing to do some coding for you for it. Would make a nice feature for the MS2 but being that a very very very small base of people would use it, they might not be willing to do it. Looking at the design you might be able to make something work as a on/off type of deal. The amount of force required to move the gear would probably be the biggest hurdle to jump.

On that note the turbine exhaust looks very very small on that picture. Just a typical of what I'm used to from Holset. And I love how no one even asked about that VGT turbo on that Honda forum. I wouldn't buy one w/o the actuator to control the turbine housing. But If I had one I would definitely figure out a way to make it work through the MS.

 

[aero_sallee]

Being as the MS2 already has a stepper chip on it you might be able to make it work. You could maybe get in contact with Ken and James and see if they might be willing to do some coding for you for it. Would make a nice feature for the MS2 but being that a very very very small base of people would use it, they might not be willing to do it. Looking at the design you might be able to make something work as a on/off type of deal. The amount of force required to move the gear would probably be the biggest hurdle to jump.

On that note the turbine exhaust looks very very small on that picture. Just a typical of what I'm used to from Holset. And I love how no one even asked about that VGT turbo on that Honda forum. I wouldn't buy one w/o the actuator to control the turbine housing. But If I had one I would definitely figure out a way to make it work through the MS.

It has the stepper output, I don't know how hard it would be to change it from the ISC output to the boost control.
It seems like it may be easier to use the stepper translator board instead. It allows freeing up some outputs too as compared to using the stepper output, since the MS2 chip is kinda lacking on I/O ports.

I'm not sure about the size of the T wheel. It looks small, but those hotsides are abnormally large so its probably partly that. I'll for sure get some measurements of the wheels as soon as I get it. I don't think it will be too bad though, I've heard of people making in the vicinity of 500whp on the 6.7 cummins with this turbo.



Here is a 6.7 with this turbo. They have a built in exhaust brake that uses the VGT, it closes it up nearly all the way to provide back pressure for engine braking. They also use it to help warm the truck up when its cold. Here is a video of one with a 5" straight pipe with the exhaust brake on warming up.
Video of Garret's 6.7 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

It sounds like he has the actuator, just has it off? Probably have to ask him though.

 

[99gst_racer]

If anyone has some spare time, this gentleman needs some assistance:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...et-hx40-part-numbers-wheels-housings-ect.html

He's got some Holset questions, but cannot post in this thread due to his status.

 

[Morphius]

It has the stepper output, I don't know how hard it would be to change it from the ISC output to the boost control.
It seems like it may be easier to use the stepper translator board instead. It allows freeing up some outputs too as compared to using the stepper output, since the MS2 chip is kinda lacking on I/O ports.

I'm not sure about the size of the T wheel. It looks small, but those hotsides are abnormally large so its probably partly that. I'll for sure get some measurements of the wheels as soon as I get it. I don't think it will be too bad though, I've heard of people making in the vicinity of 500whp on the 6.7 cummins with this turbo.



Here is a 6.7 with this turbo. They have a built in exhaust brake that uses the VGT, it closes it up nearly all the way to provide back pressure for engine braking. They also use it to help warm the truck up when its cold. Here is a video of one with a 5" straight pipe with the exhaust brake on warming up.
Video of Garret's 6.7 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

It sounds like he has the actuator, just has it off? Probably have to ask him though.

What I find interesting is, the number of these showing up for sale. Makes you wonder if it's not all it's cracked up to be. Regardless, would be cool to try. I've got a Mopar/Cummins exhaust brake for mine that replaces the cast elbow. The exhaust brakes are pretty cool. On a car, I'm sure it could be very effective because of the weight of the car.

Be sure to keep up posted on your makings with that thing.

 

[Morphius]

Below are some interesting maps which includes the hx52 (Ahem, look Jeremiah, ahem!).

Clearly the mass flow number is the same unit of "massflow perameter" on the the green gridded Holset maps. The standard high flow hx40 shows 80 or 60 lbs/min (very close to the 3rd hx40 compressor map we already have. The super 40 map shows a little over 90 for the "massflow perameter" or 68 lbs/min. This is likely the hx40 pro map!!! Good flow. But not over 70 lbs/min as some claim.

The hx 52 is 115. This corresponds to 87 lbs/min.

Did you make the first graph?

I'm suprised how close the super40 looks in similarity to 2003-2004.5 Hy-35 plot I posted in the first thread, first page. The standard HX-40 also very closely resembles the pre-2003 HX-35 in the same plot. I'm not saying you copied it, I'm just suprised how closely they mimic each other for being different. I'll have to dig my plots back up and take a look at the units again. I'll see if I can't get it plotted in what ever units it was. Didn't make sense at the time for the reference material I was trying to relate it to. It'd be nice to get these all on one plot. Also help, as the plots/data I was sent has the islands on it, if I remember correctly. Just never got the time to convert it.

 

[Spidey]

Okay, new question: Anybody have a source for Holset 5-bolt/v-band flanges? The Garrett 5-bolts look similar but I don't think they are the same and I can't find verification anywhere that they are/aren't. I also don't personally know anybody local with a T3 5-bolt setup. I had planned on cutting the stock v-band flange off of the 5-bolt flange and welding my ATP v-band flange to it but I think that may prove to be more of a hassle than its worth, so I'm looking for other options, if anyone has any ideas let me know, otherwise I'll be looking to a machine shop to just make me a new Holset 5-bolt flange.

Thanks,
Shannon

 

[dsm-onster]

Did you make the first graph?

I'm suprised how close the super40 looks in similarity to 2003-2004.5 Hy-35 plot I posted in the first thread, first page. The standard HX-40 also very closely resembles the pre-2003 HX-35 in the same plot. I'm not saying you copied it, I'm just suprised how closely they mimic each other for being different. I'll have to dig my plots back up and take a look at the units again. I'll see if I can't get it plotted in what ever units it was. Didn't make sense at the time for the reference material I was trying to relate it to. It'd be nice to get these all on one plot. Also help, as the plots/data I was sent has the islands on it, if I remember correctly. Just never got the time to convert it.

Me too!!! I thought I was on to something. . . Until, I looked at a redneck's (a dear friend ) 2004 ram 2500. It is the same wheel as the 7 blade hx35. . .