1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

Holset Turbos, PART 3

Posted by Morphius, Nov 14, 2007

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Please Support JNZ Tuning
Please Support Fuel Injector Clinic
  1. OneLove

    OneLove Proven Member

    124
    0
    Joined Dec 12, 2007
    ?, Washington
  2. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,218
    89
    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    Either are a great choice if you want a turbo that provides the same power, pump or race gas, asin the range of a 20g & 50-trim to gt30r.

    The hx35 has a 2 mm larger inducer and better aerodynamics than the big h1c there. All me research has lead me to understand that it flows 2-3 lb/min more than the big h1c. It flows 52lb/min according to the holset compressor maps. It is VERY efficient at high boost. But you'll end up at a higher bid to win this, of course.

    That h1c is a true big h1c. All big h1c turbos the MWE webbing, but no actual groove. The small h1c has no webbing and about a 4mm smaller inducer (that's alot smaller). The big h1c supposedly flows around 49-50lb/min. I have this turbo. And let me tell you that this is my favorite purchase, above dsmlink and my fp2x cams.
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  3. TimG

    TimG N/T Moderator

    1,161
    12
    Joined Jun 28, 2002
    Aurora, ON, Canada
    Blah blah blah. Does anyone have any dyno numbers or 1/4 mile times other than myself?
     

    786  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.315 @ 132.140 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. Slippi84

    Slippi84 Proven Member

    4,113
    18
    Joined Jun 8, 2005
    Cinnaminson, New Jersey
    Patience young panawan:cool:
     

    1K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  5. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,218
    89
    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    I have a 2.31sec 70-90 log at only 18psi. That's all. The closest track is in southern delaware about 2 hours away. Definately will be getting there when it cools down a little. I've also been fighting repeated headgasket issues. I've found a deep gouge in my cylinder head at the number 2 cylinder, going from inside the cc straight to an oil drain passage. I thought I was more careful pulling the head than that :( .

    Did you see badman21's dyno graph?
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  6. JWoodley

    JWoodley Proven Member

    700
    3
    Joined Oct 12, 2002
    Middle Of Nowhere, Alabama
    I slung number one through the back of the block. I'm building an Eagle/Ross 6 bolt now. I made the numbers under my username (<---) at 24psi on 93 with a completely stock 7 bolt, low timing, and an uncalibrated MAF via DSMLink. It should be around 375 easy if I hadn't have been a tard.

    When the built motor goes in, I intend on maxxing the car out on racegas.
     

    658  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  7. TimG

    TimG N/T Moderator

    1,161
    12
    Joined Jun 28, 2002
    Aurora, ON, Canada
    The holset thread #1 started in 2004. 4 years later and we only have a small handful of track results and a select few dyno results.

    I had my Holset HX-35 going 11.60s with a botched transmission but after further review, I realized the compressor wheel was way too small and inefficient.

    This year I have the HX-40 wheel on and I'll be heading to the track this week or most likely next week. I need to work on my tune and bump the boost up to 33-35psi and see how she goes.

    Boys. The time has come to get these turbos spooling on the track or the dyno. There's just way too much talking about MWE, housings, compressor maps and much more and not enough real world numbers. As a DSMtuners moderator, I demand results. Less talk, more action.

    Make sure you get videos as well. :rocks:
     

    786  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.315 @ 132.140 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,218
    89
    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    Yes, Tim. You've already done very well with a very affordable turbo using a turbine housing that doesn't even fit the application. And I agree. I really need to push myself more with this. Yet yoou msy not know all my other responsibilities. But, aye, sir. I'll get some results. Soon.

    Curious about how you determined that the hx35 compressor is inefficent at 121 mph ;). How did you determine this?

    I'll wager you'll notice your turbine wheel is far too small for the hx40 compressor. As a pure hx35 is already out of the 10% rule. It's a great turbine wheel. But it is already undersized for the hx35. This turbo was built for INSTANT 30 psi for a diesel with cold slow moving exhaust gas. You logged only 42ish lbs/min and showed only a 400ish whp trap speed. The compressor map alone should tell you more is there on the compressor end :) . I think you need an intake manifold upgrade. As do I. I'm breaking from shaping velocity stacks right now. I fully know that pump gas and 30 psi with water/meth injection is a tough b!tch to rule. I don't think you should write off the compressor just yet. But since it's done, we'll see the differences.

    Also I truely believe that your divided turbine housing with a non-divided manifold is affecting your results. You're not just running a larger turbine housing, you're running a larger turbine housing with unneccesary turbulance and momentum changes.
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  9. Slippi84

    Slippi84 Proven Member

    4,113
    18
    Joined Jun 8, 2005
    Cinnaminson, New Jersey
    I agree as well. I'm just waiting for this one key piece of my build to come in and I"m set.:rocks:
     

    1K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  10. ceedawg

    ceedawg Supporting Member

    1,368
    219
    Joined Jun 2, 2004
    laurelton, New York
    ceedawg

    2K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  11. TimG

    TimG N/T Moderator

    1,161
    12
    Joined Jun 28, 2002
    Aurora, ON, Canada
    This HX-40 compressor wheel will go faster than the HX-35. There is no doubt in my mind. The question is, by how much.

    And FYI, I have a Magnus manifold installed this year along with a second methanol injection nozzle. I'm hoping to run a more aggressive timing curve this year but there will be no fine tuning until the track.

    The car was late getting onto the road this year. This was because I rebuilt my own tranny with a 4-spider center diff and it was a 2 month learning process between work and social things.
     

    786  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.315 @ 132.140 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  12. OneLove

    OneLove Proven Member

    124
    0
    Joined Dec 12, 2007
    ?, Washington
    Thanks dsm-onster, That was a very informative post.

    I appreciate it.
     
  13. JWoodley

    JWoodley Proven Member

    700
    3
    Joined Oct 12, 2002
    Middle Of Nowhere, Alabama
    As soon as my student loan goes through in the next few weeks, I'll have my monster kicking around. I want to make IS but I don't think that is an attainable goal.

    The Holset would love the cooler air. I could also benefit from some knowledgeable DSMLink guys.

    The new setup consists of:
    (2.0 6 bolt swap)
    Eagle/Ross .020
    ACL Race
    JMF 1G Race
    FP2s
    Kiggly Springs (keeping future cam upgrades in mind)
    +1mm oversized valves
    Fully balanced and blue-printed.

    I'm pretty excited about it.
     

    658  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  14. assault187

    assault187 Proven Member

    461
    5
    Joined May 16, 2005
    Horsham, Pennsylvania
    I'm looking for a new 40 pro cartridge...Anywhere to else to pick these up other then EBAY? And to get things straight, the "PRO" is the HX-40 with a larger 60MM 6 blade compressor wheel?
     

    810  0


    10.882 @ 133.420 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  15. jking29

    jking29 Proven Member

    562
    5
    Joined Jun 7, 2005
    Houston, Texas
    I picked up a hx35w from a 95 Dodge a while back for $160 shipped with 0 shaft play. I really want to get this on my car. I have pretty much given up on finding a bep housing for it, so I am thinking of going to a t3 manifold and doing some grinding on the opening of the stock 12cm twin scroll housing. I also have a 50mm external laying around I will be using. I have some questions about whether I can accomplish my goals with this set up. I would like to be able to make 400 fwhp on pump 93 along with water injection, stock cams and stock intake manifold along with being able to spool 25ish psi by 4000-4200 rpm. I'd like to hear from some people with experience with these turbos if this is reachable goal. Thanks for the help.
     

    Street Build 589  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    automatic · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,218
    89
    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    TimG who just responded in this thread above, has a 400whp AWD setup (based on trap speed) with pump gas and water/meth injection and stock intake manifold. He runs an hx35 with the 12 cm^2 turbine housing. He knife-edged his divider in the housing. His spool seams to be inline with what you want. I think your horsepower goal is definately attainable since you car has less drivetrainloss than an AWD.
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. jking29

    jking29 Proven Member

    562
    5
    Joined Jun 7, 2005
    Houston, Texas
    Thanks for the reply monster. I was worried about the spool as I thought I read that he wasn't able to spool his with 272's until 5200. That would be way late for me with the stock cam powerband.
     

    Street Build 589  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    automatic · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  18. TimG

    TimG N/T Moderator

    1,161
    12
    Joined Jun 28, 2002
    Aurora, ON, Canada
    Things are going to be so different this year. That could mean something amazing or horrible will happen.
     

    786  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.315 @ 132.140 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. JWoodley

    JWoodley Proven Member

    700
    3
    Joined Oct 12, 2002
    Middle Of Nowhere, Alabama
    That is correct, sir. Just about any diesel turbo shop will sell them. Check around for them at Dodge dealerships or Cummins forums.

    I've recently found out that people are swapping billet wheels on these turbos. Could it be our very own "HTA" like upgrade? :rocks:
     

    658  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  20. ceedawg

    ceedawg Supporting Member

    1,368
    219
    Joined Jun 2, 2004
    laurelton, New York
    Hmmmmm :thumb: Really! That would be nice..
     
    ceedawg

    2K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,218
    89
    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    Or amazingly horrible:) . I hope it will be just amazing.
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  22. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

    1,336
    41
    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan
    Probably a good breaking point.........


    Link to Part 4:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html#post151574487



    For more discussion history:
    Link to Part 1 :
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 2:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 3:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

    Link to Part 4:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

    Link to Part 5:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

    Link to Part 6:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

    Link to Part 7:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

    Link to Part 8:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

    Link to Part 9:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


    For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
    Link to FAQ:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


    For in vehicle results:
    Link to Results Only:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

    Link to HX-52 setup;
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


    For more specific component discussion:
    Link to Holset Part #'s:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

    Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

    Link to Fake Holset Info:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


    Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
    HX35:

    The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

    The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

    HY35:

    The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! :) It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

    H1C/WH1C:

    In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

    I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

    HX35-40 hybrid:

    Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

    HX40:

    The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

    The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

    H1E/WH1E:

    The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

    The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

    HX52:

    This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

    Misc.:

    • Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
    • The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
    • Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
    • They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
    • There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
    • The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.



    Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

    HX35 Compressors:
    50mm / 78mm 7-blade
    52mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 83mm 8-blade
    56mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


    HX40:Compressors:

    56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
    58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 76mm / 64mm
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Archer Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RixRacing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory WheelWell.com