Holset Turbos, PART 3

[Slippi84]

eBay Motors: Turbo Wastegate 40mm Type H (item 170240026751 end time Jul-16-08 05:01:53 PDT)

$80 shipped why skimp

 

[kahl23]

I think I'll pass on the $60 ebay special no name wastegate thank you very much. Of all the places to cut costs I don't think the wastegate is the best one. You are kind of right, why would you skimp and buy a $60 wastegate?

 

[Slippi84]

I think I'll pass on the $60 ebay special no name wastegate thank you very much. Of all the places to cut costs I don't think the wastegate is the best one. You are kind of right, why would you skimp and buy a $60 wastegate?

Dsmonster uses a ebay 38mm external with no problems...

 

[T9S1i]

I'm aware of this but it seems people are only looking at once side of this. Unless your car is a track only car I don't think people will be running 36 psi ALL the time. Thus you will want a low and high boost setting. Why buy a wastegate that might creep at your lower boost setting when you could buy a slightly larger for almost the same price and have no worries.

Like I plan on running 12-15psi daily and 20psi if I can squeek it out when I'm balls to the wall. Now my numbers are lower because of my high compression but a normal lower compression setup might be like 15-22psi saily and 36 maybe even 40psi with race gas when your all out. I have always been a mod right mod once kinda guy so take my opinion as just that an opinion on how I think the person who asked the question could do it right.

why not run high boost all the time if you can?

If you want to boost less then you do the right foot mod and dont press down as hard...

I understand you if you are talking a race gas track tune vs a pump gas tune, but if you have what it takes to run 30+psi on race gas, then you probably can run 20+ on pump.

Boost creep rarely happens above 18-20psi as stated above. So if you are running a boost pressure above that then you are not going to creep.




I was using an ebay wastegate. It "failed" once when the nut inside the diaphragm backed off, it didnt cause me to overboost, but rather the exact opposite, i couldnt boost! I took it off, tightened it down with some locktite and it worked for me for the rest of the time.

Now with a built motor and better turbo setup (and the most important factor, a better paying job) i run a tial 38, as it gives me a little better peace of mind that im running a quality product, and my money went to a company in the usa, rather than a chinese sweatshop.

 

[Slippi84]

why not run high boost all the time if you can?

If you want to boost less then you do the right foot mod and dont press down as hard...

I understand you if you are talking a race gas track tune vs a pump gas tune, but if you have what it takes to run 30+psi on race gas, then you probably can run 20+ on pump.

Boost creep rarely happens above 18-20psi as stated above. So if you are running a boost pressure above that then you are not going to creep.




I was using an ebay wastegate. It "failed" once when the nut inside the diaphragm backed off, it didnt cause me to overboost, but rather the exact opposite, i couldnt boost! I took it off, tightened it down with some locktite and it worked for me for the rest of the time.

Now with a built motor and better turbo setup (and the most important factor, a better paying job) i run a tial 38, as it gives me a little better peace of mind that im running a quality product, and my money went to a company in the usa, rather than a chinese sweatshop.

Quality

The ebay debate is kinda a played out subject so I won't go there but main reason to not want to run 36psi all the time is stuff breaks faster in a nut shell. Your right about not flooring it and boosting but idk about you but I don't baby my car and if the right opportunity should arise I might get on it. I have a fully built motor and al the stuff to tell me if something is wrong and top notch tuning stuff and I still wouldn't do it simply for the same reaosn you said peace of mind.

To be honest I want to hear more about the t3 .70ar vs .55ar hosuing because I keep going back and forth on them and I'm ordering mine tomorrow Only one person I have seen so far is running one on a hx40 and he said 5100 ful boost . I need full boost by like 4600-4800 no slower. This is a street car but I do want to make descent power.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

T3 is a bigger housing so it won't spool as quick but you'll see more power and it also depends on cams, how much boost you're running to determine when you'll hit full boost. But I can tell you one thing for sure, you certainly won't be even close to hitting full boost at 36 psi. on a t3 or even a BEP .55 bolt-on housing at 4600-4800.

 

[Slippi84]

T3 is a bigger housing so it won't spool as quick but you'll see more power and it also depends on cams, how much boost you're running to determine when you'll hit full boost. But I can tell you one thing for sure, you certainly won't be even close to hitting full boost at 36 psi. on a t3 or even a BEP .55 bolt-on housing at 4600-4800.

36 psi No I was just reffering to another guy when I said that it will be a cold day in hell before I get my setup to run 36psi without shooting a piston threw the hood. I'm the odd ball in the group I'm putting my hx40 on a 420a motor not a 4g63 motor. I have 10:5:1 compression so i'm aiming for 20psi

 

[420a-t]

36 psi No I was just reffering to another guy when I said that it will be a cold day in hell before I get my setup to run 36psi without shooting a piston threw the hood. I'm the odd ball in the group I'm putting my hx40 on a 420a motor not a 4g63 motor. I have 10:5:1 compression so i'm aiming for 20psi

A built motor i hope.

 

[Slippi84]

A built motor i hope.

My profile is current

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I'm the odd ball in the group I'm putting my hx40 on a 420a motor not a 4g63 motor. I have 10:5:1 compression so i'm aiming for 20psi

I'm not so sure the HX40 is the best idea for you. The HX40 gets the best performance with lots of boost and it's pretty difficult running high boost on my 9:1 and I can't imagine what it's like on a 10.5:1 but that's just my 2 cent.

 

[Slippi84]

I'm now so sure the HX40 is the best idea for you. The HX40 gets the best performance with lots of boost and it's pretty difficult running high boost on my 9:1 and I can't imagine what it's like on a 10.5:1 but that's just my 2 cent.

I know trust me I already worked the setup out. I don't want to put all my secrets out on the web but I have timing and fuel control along with everything to monitor a/f ratio and egts along with we'll say anti-knock tec and a tuner more than capable. It will be the exception more than the norm but it will be functional.

 

[dsm-onster]

The ebay wastegates are just fine. What can happen? A broken spring? Well, boost will drop. A broken Diaphragm? Boost will drop. A leak? boost will drop. If any of these fail, swapping in the specific part from TiAL would work. And is still far less expensive. You're truely buying into a name and promoting the culture, not making your setup safer. It's not like a turbocharger. It's a spring, silicone diaphragm, a valve and a case. Zero issues, rock solid boost from 5 to 29 psi.

A 38mm wastegate is just fine for a typical built 4g63 or even one with stock 6bolt internals. Who's had a problem with creep with an external 38mm gated hx40? No one knows. We're all helping with our 4g63 knowledge .

A turbo can perform well at low boost though the compressor is less efficient. Compressor efficiency is the cause of less than 1% increase in heat where a 75% efficient intercooler is used. Any good sized ebay frontmount can do this. The turbine needs more exhaust energy to rotate the compressor when it is inefficient but at the end of the compressor map, so creap will likely never be an issue. I doubt Slippi will need 20psi to reach 55lb/min, but the hx40 isn't too far out of efficency on the large hx40 map. The question is will he even need around 55lb/min to reach his goal?

 

[Slippi84]

Quick question does anyone have a serial # off the HX-40 that they are useing? I have a family member that works for Cummins and he said there is about 20 different styles of the HX-40 and he needs the Serial # to narrow down what i need.

03299074

That's for a hx40w with 7 blade

 

[Slippi84]

The ebay wastegates are just fine. What can happen? A broken spring? Well, boost will drop. A broken Diaphragm? Boost will drop. A leak? boost will drop. If any of these fail, swapping in the specific part from TiAL would work. And is still far less expensive. You're truely buying into a name and promoting the culture, not making your setup safer. It's not like a turbocharger. It's a spring, silicone diaphragm, a valve and a case. Zero issues, rock solid boost from 5 to 29 psi.

A 38mm wastegate is just fine for a typical built 4g63 or even one with stock 6bolt internals. Who's had a problem with creep with an external 38mm gated hx40? No one knows. We're all helping with our 4g63 knowledge .

A turbo can perform well at low boost though the compressor is less efficient. Compressor efficiency is the cause of less than 1% increase in heat where a 75% efficient intercooler is used. Any good sized ebay frontmount can do this. The turbine needs more exhaust energy to rotate the compressor when it is inefficient but at the end of the compressor map, so creap will likely never be an issue. I doubt Slippi will need 20psi to reach 55lb/min, but the hx40 isn't too far out of efficency on the large hx40 map. The question is will he even need around 55lb/min to reach his goal?

I went back and read your post about the ondas and how they compare. I know my head doesn't flow as good as a hond but with my higher lift cams and high compression you think just using the 18cm houisng and runnig low boost like they do I would have a easier time tuning and making power or do you think I owuld be making it harder for myself? I figure the 18cm hosuing at like 10psi might be able to make the power I want. I don't think I willneed more than 400whp to reach my goals with how light my car is.

 

[dsm-onster]

You're really out there in uncharted territory. Headflow affects spool more than compression. If a head flows well at 3K, you'll see boost earlier than a head that is cut for higher rpm power. Yet that head of which flows more down low and spools the turbo quicker will definately need much more boost for the same horsepower output, of course.

Personally, I think you're going to need more boost than you think. But less timing. The tune is going to be more crucial for curbing knock. And you're going to end up with 18-20 psi to reach your goal. The 4g63 head flow very well, and has good tumble characteristics. It's the piston design that is pi$$ poor. Not enough squish is there when there could be much more because of the head chamber shape. I don't know what the 420a offers exactly. But a 2.0 with similar flow and tumble characteristics and 2 points higher in compressions can see 5-6% more power for the same boost considering percentage increase in thermal efficiency of an otto cycle engine is about proportional to the horsepower output. See below chart. A **well supported** 2.0 4g63 can see 400whp with a good flowing turbine (t3 stage3 wheel or bigger) at 22-24psi. You'll could be putting out 25-30 more horsepower if your head flows as well and you're setup is as supportive.

I don't think running the big holset housing with an open header design will give any more ability to reach your goal. And will only really slow your spool.

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah I gave up on that idea. My goal now is to get 20psi safely with meth and the t3 .70ar with side exit exhaust out the front bumper like shep. WHatever numbers it puts ut it puts out but I don't think running more will be worth the risk of the head going pop.

 

[kicker91laser]

Does anyone know what the a/r is on a 19cm t4 turbine housing?

 

[ceedawg]

Does anyone know what the a/r is on a 19cm t4 turbine housing?

probably about 1.00 plus.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I believe it's somewhere around 1.3-1.4 a/r. It is a pretty big and laggy housing.

 

[Slippi84]

SHe's all togeher now I gotta put her on and see what happens

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[IPT]

I love the looks of an HX40 with the t3 .70 housing on it.

 

[Slippi84]

I love the looks of an HX40 with the t3 .70 housing on it.

That makes two of us

ANyone want that 18cm housing. I'm not trying to sell it just seeing if someone wants it to test or whatever. PM info. AGIAN NOT SELLING IT JUST GIVING IT AWAY!

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Does anyone know what the HX40 w/ T3 .70 housing is capable of vs. the spool? I'm in the process of switching from a BEP .55 to a T3 .70 and I don't want to over conceive the differences.

 

[Slippi84]

Does anyone know what the HX40 w/ T3 .70 housing is capable of vs. the spool? I'm in the process of switching from a BEP .55 to a T3 .70 and I don't want to over conceive the differences.

I"ve seen some pictures on here but they make the .70ar out to be a lot bigger than it really is. It's perfect size in my opinion. You have to see it in person to appreciate it but it will spool plenty quick.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I"ve seen some pictures on here but they make the .70ar out to be a lot bigger than it really is.

Yeah, they are much larger compared to the BEP .55 housing. I've already gotten the rebuild HX40 back you need spacer or whatnot for fitment.