Holset Turbos, PART 3

[Slippi84]

Where is the cheapest place to get a oil install kit for the holsets at?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Where is the cheapest place to get a oil install kit for the holsets at?

The Turbo Trader

 

[Slippi84]

The Turbo Trader

That is probably the worst site for buying parts I have ever visited. Anywhere else?

 

[kahl23]

Every setup is different and there will always be people that beat the norm but a 38mm isn't ideal for 36psi on a hx40 is all I"m saying if you can I would get either a 40 or that 46mm setup that I talked about a couple post ago. A 38mm off the manifold like say a collector maybe we're talking about off the o2 housing. ut it like this is a 38mm was fine then fp wouldn't be using a 40 or 46 whatever size it is that gets attached right to the exhaust housing on some of the most popular and successful dsm turbos around the fp30 series.

If you want to run no lower than 36 you will be fine with a smaller wastegate like the 38; if you want to run like 18psi you might want to go bigger. The original FP30 housings back on the first run of the 3055 (precursor to 3052) were flanged for the 38mm IIRC. It was only after TiAL came out with the 44mm v-band that they changed to that setup

 

[Slippi84]

If you want to run no lower than 36 you will be fine with a smaller wastegate like the 38; if you want to run like 18psi you might want to go bigger. The original FP30 housings back on the first run of the 3055 (precursor to 3052) were flanged for the 38mm IIRC. It was only after TiAL came out with the 44mm v-band that they changed to that setup

And look how much better the new style turbo's perform.

 

[Raph]

subscribed..need to turbocharge my colt!

 

[kahl23]

And look how much better the new style turbo's perform.

I see what you are saying there, but I think it might also have to do more with the different comp wheel than the change in wastegate flange, but then again what do I know? I guess the moral is both gates will get you to where you want to be, I can't see any change in these wastegates giving you more power (assuming proper installation). If you have the cash and want to go 44 v-band then by all means do it, I was just saying how it wasn't necessary.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

That is probably the worst site for buying parts I have ever visited. Anywhere else?

Well, if you contact BEP sales team they will personally refer you to TheTurboTrader. The owner personally works with BEP. But if you decide not to buy the oil lines from turbotrader try contacting Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding or DSM Performance.

 

[JWoodley]

That is probably the worst site for buying parts I have ever visited. Anywhere else?

The HX40 has a T4 oil return fitting. I'm running the FP blue tube.

 

[JWoodley]

What the turbine size on a FP3052/3065/3575 respectively? Would it be possible to mate an HX40 to one of these turbine housings? This would give more 02 housing options and have a nice spot for the 44mm gate.

 

[Slippi84]

I see what you are saying there, but I think it might also have to do more with the different comp wheel than the change in wastegate flange, but then again what do I know? I guess the moral is both gates will get you to where you want to be, I can't see any change in these wastegates giving you more power (assuming proper installation). If you have the cash and want to go 44 v-band then by all means do it, I was just saying how it wasn't necessary.

I didn't mean perform by hp I meant the ability to maintain a given boost setting rock solid all the way to redline at even 10psi. The difference between a 38mm ebay wastegate and 40 or 44mm wastegate is not that much at all. Forget the pricey name brand wastegates they rape you. To each his own though.

 

[Slippi84]

Well, if you contact BEP sales team they will personally refer you to TheTurboTrader. The owner personally works with BEP. But if you decide not to buy the oil lines from turbotrader try contacting Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding or DSM Performance.

Well maybe i'll call and i'll get better results than. As to the t4 thing I don't quite understand what your saying but from what I read it's a 12x1.25 or 12x1.50 and the return is pretty basic. I did talk to tims turbos and they have a 12x(whatever the holset takes) to -4an fitting then all I would need is a -4an 2' line to my oil filter adapter.

 

[JWoodley]

Are you looking for a feed or return setup? The return flange on the turbo is a T4 oil return flange.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Well if you cannot get the proper oil lines and cannot get through to TurboTrader I high recommend emailing BEP. BEP will contact TurboTrader and TurboTrader will contact you within a day.

...fitting then all I would need is a -4an 2' line to my oil filter adapter.

It's a good idea to have an oil filter running on the turbo oil line. It's unbelievable how many big turbo I've seen that were damaged by junk in the oil.

 

[Slippi84]

Well if you cannot get the proper oil lines and cannot get through to TurboTrader I high recommend emailing BEP. BEP will contact TurboTrader and TurboTrader will contact you within a day.




It's a good idea to have an oil filter running on the turbo oil line. It's unbelievable how many big turbo I've seen that were damaged by junk in the oil.

Oh trus me I know about theoil feedfilter look at my profile pic of my old 1g tsi setup I had th same one i'll be running on this car. The earl fittngs inline oil filter. I am looking for both the return and fee. ould like tojust find a easyall in one lke $150 kit.

 

[want_a_gsx]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and more convenient to get some silicone hoses, cut the stock oil feed and drain lines and get some fittings for the turbo?

Also, the hx35 I purchased came with this fitting. What size do you think it is? I'm actually thinking about using it somehow...

 

[JWoodley]

I think it's a M12X1.50 to -4an for the feed and the FP blue drain tube or the one for BEP turbo's that extremepsi sells works. Once you get the thread to -4an adapter you can use any -4an line for a feed.

HX40 has a T4 drain flange.

If you have a local Fastenal take the turbo in and match it up. This is what I did about 11 months ago.

 

[TxR6guy]

Quick question does anyone have a serial # off the HX-40 that they are useing? I have a family member that works for Cummins and he said there is about 20 different styles of the HX-40 and he needs the Serial # to narrow down what i need.

 

[talonkev]

I just recently put my hx-35 on my 6 bolt. I have been using a 2g mass and a keydiver chip with the 16g for a while now with out any problems. With the new turbo my idle air fuel ratio is all over the place. The car constantly wants to stall at idle. Ive tried numerous things but nothing seems to help. Ive heard from some people that 4" intakes and large turbos don't get along well with the 2g mass due to air flow reasons. Has anyone else ran into a problem similar to this?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

heard from some people that 4" intakes and large turbos don't get along well with the 2g mass due to air flow reasons. Has anyone else ran into a problem similar to this?

That maybe the case but I don't know for sure. I do know that the 2g MAS has about a 400 hp limit and the HX-35 is capable of more than that. I'd recommend getting a GM MAF and translator or a TRE MAS eliminator.

 

[dsm-onster]

If you want to run no lower than 36 you will be fine with a smaller wastegate like the 38; if you want to run like 18psi you might want to go bigger. The original FP30 housings back on the first run of the 3055 (precursor to 3052) were flanged for the 38mm IIRC. It was only after TiAL came out with the 44mm v-band that they changed to that setup

And look how much better the new style turbo's perform.

A little late, but just to interject... There were no real creep issues with the old 38mm FP30 turbos. The reason they now come with the larger wastegates could just as easily be due to the fact that some want to buy once and run low boost for now, but have plenty of turbo later. It opens up their market. The larger wastegate won't be a *problem* for high boost. But is not neccesary, IMHO.

Flow potential is increased by the fourth power to the radius, because the flow resistance goes down by the 4th power to the radius. A small change does VERY much to flow potential. There is no way that a very large turbine that needs way more gases just to spin itself should NEED 23% less flow resistance (difference of 38mm^4 vs. 40mm^4).

And, speaking of the same flow turbines (like an hx40 vs. gt35r turbine) more efficient turbochargers will need a larger diameter hole simply because of the fact that they get more done with less energy. Yet, a 40mm gate is 10% larger in area than a 38mm gate. A 44 mm gate is 35% larger. The wastegate is blown open at an exhaust pressure proportional to the wastegate area. Does a 10% more efficient turbine need a 35% larger gate? Hardly. Since flow is based on the power 4 of radius. Nevertheless, where a larger turbine is needed, typically far more exhaust gas energy is needed simply to turn the wheel, therefore a larger flapper would do nothing but blow open and provide no benefit of boost control at lower boost levels at all.

 

[Slippi84]

A little late, but just to interject... There were no real creep issues with the old 38mm FP30 turbos. The reason they now come with the larger wastegates could just as easily be due to the fact that some want to buy once and run low boost for now, but have plenty of turbo later. It opens up their market. The larger wastegate won't be a *problem* for high boost. But is not neccesary, IMHO.

Flow potential is increased by the fourth power to the radius, because the flow resistance goes down by the 4th power to the radius. A small change does VERY much to flow potential. There is no way that a very large turbine that needs way more gases just to spin itself should NEED 23% less flow resistance (difference of 38mm^4 vs. 40mm^4).

And, speaking of the same flow turbines (like an hx40 vs. gt35r turbine) more efficient turbochargers will need a larger diameter hole simply because of the fact that they get more done with less energy. Yet, a 40mm gate is 10% larger in area than a 38mm gate. A 44 mm gate is 35% larger. The wastegate is blown open at an exhaust pressure proportional to the wastegate area. Does a 10% more efficient turbine need a 35% larger gate? Hardly. Since flow is based on the power 4 of radius. Nevertheless, where a larger turbine is needed, typically far more exhaust gas energy is needed simply to turn the wheel, therefore a larger flapper would do nothing but blow open and provide no benefit of boost control at lower boost levels at all.

Yes but we're talking about high boost not low boost. I don't even remember who it was now but they were talking about trying to run 36psi and wanted to know if they could get it done with a 38mm I said why skimp go for the 40mm and call it a day. A 40mm with the correct spring will not blow open when trying to run low boost and will divert enough gasses to maintain that 36psi because creeping to 20 psi from 18psi isn't as dangerous as creeping from 36-38psi because most people I know that tuned in 36psi are at the ragged edge of their tune and more psi could equal bad things

 

[T9S1i]

Yes but we're talking about high boost not low boost. I don't even remember who it was now but they were talking about trying to run 36psi and wanted to know if they could get it done with a 38mm I said why skimp go for the 40mm and call it a day. A 40mm with the correct spring will not blow open when trying to run low boost and will divert enough gasses to maintain that 36psi because creeping to 20 psi from 18psi isn't as dangerous as creeping from 36-38psi because most people I know that tuned in 36psi are at the ragged edge of their tune and more psi could equal bad things

The point everyone has made in this thread is that the more boost you run, the smaller the wastegate is needed (ie 38mm wastegate)

If you take that same big turbo, and want to run 10psi with a 38mm wastegate, you might get creep.

SO if you are getting a turbo and have all the mods to run high boost all the time, you dont need anything bigger than a 38mm wastegate.
If you dont have all your supporting mods and say you get a good deal on a big turbo, but you cant run high boost, you have to run it with your stock fuel system for a while, then you will want a bigger wastegate, because you have to divert more exhaust gas from the turbine wheel, so the turbo doesnt spool.

 

[Mr Peepers]

The point everyone has made in this thread is that the more boost you run, the smaller the wastegate is needed (ie 38mm wastegate)

If you take that same big turbo, and want to run 10psi with a 38mm wastegate, you might get creep.

SO if you are getting a turbo and have all the mods to run high boost all the time, you dont need anything bigger than a 38mm wastegate.
If you dont have all your supporting mods and say you get a good deal on a big turbo, but you cant run high boost, you have to run it with your stock fuel system for a while, then you will want a bigger wastegate, because you have to divert more exhaust gas from the turbine wheel, so the turbo doesnt spool.

Exactly

Just another note, boost creep is a threshold. If the same setup doesn't creep at 20psi, it won't creep at 36. Actually, if a given setup happens to creep to 18psi by redline, you can generally run a solid 18,19,20,21etc... without creep.

 

[Slippi84]

The point everyone has made in this thread is that the more boost you run, the smaller the wastegate is needed (ie 38mm wastegate)

If you take that same big turbo, and want to run 10psi with a 38mm wastegate, you might get creep.

SO if you are getting a turbo and have all the mods to run high boost all the time, you dont need anything bigger than a 38mm wastegate.
If you dont have all your supporting mods and say you get a good deal on a big turbo, but you cant run high boost, you have to run it with your stock fuel system for a while, then you will want a bigger wastegate, because you have to divert more exhaust gas from the turbine wheel, so the turbo doesnt spool.

I'm aware of this but it seems people are only looking at once side of this. Unless your car is a track only car I don't think people will be running 36 psi ALL the time. Thus you will want a low and high boost setting. Why buy a wastegate that might creep at your lower boost setting when you could buy a slightly larger for almost the same price and have no worries.

Like I plan on running 12-15psi daily and 20psi if I can squeek it out when I'm balls to the wall. Now my numbers are lower because of my high compression but a normal lower compression setup might be like 15-22psi saily and 36 maybe even 40psi with race gas when your all out. I have always been a mod right mod once kinda guy so take my opinion as just that an opinion on how I think the person who asked the question could do it right.