Holset Turbos, PART 3

[ceedawg]

How much difference is there between the T3 v-band and T3 divided power and spool wise?

Perhaps the question u wanna ask is "what is the dfference power and spool wise between a T3 divided housing vs a T3 non -divided housing" which has been discussed in great depth in past pages of this thread.

If someone wants to they can explain everything all over again but a simple "search" in this case would surely suffice.

 

[andy4g63]

Perhaps the question u wanna ask is "what is the dfference power and spool wise between a T3 divided housing vs a T3 non -divided housing" which has been discussed in great depth in past pages of this thread.

I am very curious about that too, but for me all these debates are just speculations, unless someone proves me wrong???

Steve 93 talon had aERL mani/undivided/ and now that divided T3 from JMF. Let them do the tests and SEE.

Even something interesting comes up, a lot of things are different from car to car, from setup to setup, etc.

Anyone wants to tell me something about new TIAL V-band turbine housings for BIG Garret turbos ?!?!?!

UNDIVIDED, but YET effective, plus on the other hand I 've seen turbo from WRC car from like 3-4 years ago and it was the same/ V- band, Undivided/. And again, who else, but RALLY cars need faster spool-up, with these restrictions they have now, smaller turbos, 2.0 liter motors,etc. I know that their anti- lag systems are working non-stop, between the shifts,but still, if divided was better it should've been there.

 

[ceedawg]

Perhaps the question u wanna ask is "what is the dfference power and spool wise between a T3 divided housing vs a T3 non -divided housing" which has been discussed in great depth in past pages of this thread.

I am very curious about that too, but for me all these debates are just speculations, unless someone proves me wrong???
.

No I beg to differ with you on that Andy. The difference between a non divided setup and a divided manifold combined with a divided turbine setup performance wise has been explained and proven on many forums including here in this thread to date. If you also goto evolutionm.net you will see very in depth explanations about the differences and there are plenty of results posted for comparison sake.

Just do a "search" in the link I posted below in the "search this forum" column with the word "twin Scroll" and you will see what I'm talking about. Alot of interesting stuff here.

Evo Engine / Turbo / Drivetrain - evolutionm.net

I have a feeling Steve will be doing away with his ERl mani after his results.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Steve 93 talon had aERL mani/undivided/ and now that divided T3 from JMF. Let them do the tests and SEE.

My smaller S258 was on the .70 undivided T3, not to mention the fact that I was running a stock head/intake and milder FP2s. Tort's S362 setup that we're putting together will have a huge JMF Drag SMIM, BC280s, and a ported head with big valves, so it'll have it's work cut out for it. Even so, I'm betting that his setup will see full boost at least as soon as my setup did thanks to the divided hotside.

RALLY cars need faster spool-up, with these restrictions they have now, smaller turbos, 2.0 liter motors,etc. I know that their anti- lag systems are working non-stop, between the shifts,but still, if divided was better it should've been there.

Many rally cars ARE twin scroll. All newer EVOs, non-USDM STIs,... not to mention the afterburner ports on the EVO exhaust manifolds

 

[ceedawg]

My smaller S258 was on the .70 undivided T3, not to mention the fact that I was running a stock head/intake and milder FP2s. Tort's S362 setup that we're putting together will have a huge JMF Drag SMIM, BC280s, and a ported head with big valves, so it'll have it's work cut out for it. Even so, I'm betting that his setup will see full boost at least as soon as my setup did thanks to the divided hotsisde

Which will be great considering the size of the S362 turbo in comparison to the S256 and 258.


Bigger turbo with small turbo like spoolup and great topend is what we want with the whole divided setup.

 

[T9S1i]

Ive got Steve93Talon's old s258 erl manifold setup getting put on my car right now, i'll contribute some spool up numbers within a week or two for you guys!

 

[ceedawg]

Ive got Steve93Talon's old s258 erl manifold setup getting put on my car right now, i'll contribute some spool up numbers within a week or two for you guys!

Nice!

This also means that Steve must be getting in gear to use a full divided setup. I'm just curious about what turbo he'll be trying to use with the new full divided setup.

 

[T9S1i]

Nice!

This also means that Steve must be getting in gear to use a full divided setup. I'm just curious about what turbo he'll be trying to use with the new full divided setup.

Nope, Steve parted out his car because he has a new baby boy i believe. The divided t3 362 setup is going on Tort's car. Steve will be working with it and will be updating us on it so we'll still definitely get a bunch of info on the setup from him. He just has no time to play with his own DSM at this point in time. Respectable decision.... It worked out nicely for me! haha

Here's a sneak peak... i'll have the car back by wednesday with more pics to update!

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[Slippi84]

I was talking to monster about this which do you think would weid better results spool wise "m not worried about top end because I know both will do fine between a divides turbine housing and non divided with a t3 manifold that is undivided?

 

[ceedawg]

I was talking to monster about this which do you think would weid better results spool wise "m not worried about top end because I know both will do fine between a divides turbine housing and non divided with a t3 manifold that is undivided?

Man your question is hard to make out,is it even a question at all because the grammar is hard to understand!WTF

 

[Slippi84]

Man your question is hard to make out,is it even a question at all because the grammar is hard to understand!WTF

Sorry I sent that last one from my cell phone. Which do you think would spool faster a divided housing with undivided manifold or if both were undivided?

 

[dsm-onster]

Undivided exhaust housings of the proper area will result in a faster spool in almost every case using a non-divided runner manifold versus using a divided housing. As I said, The exhaust gases see the sum of the turbine scrolls with a non-divided runner manifold. Almost always (especially in the case of holset) the divided housings sum up to a much bigger area than the other options for housings like the bep housings or cutting standard garrett t3 housings to fit.

A divided runner manifold with a matching twin scroll turbine of the same flow/power potential reaches boost threshold much faster though.

Match manifolds to turbines.

 

[Slippi84]

That's what I figured but it was worth asking before hand. I'm not in love with full boost around 5k na car that will see the street but I'm not gonna be able to run that much boost on pump. The small hoing seems o really like boost but I think the .70ar v-band may be the best trade off.

 

[JWoodley]

Whats the turbine wheel diameter on the HX40? I just need to verify this. I'm trying to find us a few more housing options.

 

[dsm-onster]

HX35/40 & HX40

 

[ceedawg]

Whats the turbine wheel diameter on the HX40? I just need to verify this. I'm trying to find us a few more housing options.

The garrett divided housings should work well with some maching.

 

[andy4g63]

HX35/40 & HX40

I forgot, but HX-40 has a damn big turbine wheel. Especially compared to a GT35R. No wonder in a big housing spools a little later.

 

[Slippi84]

I forgot, but HX-40 has a damn big turbine wheel. Especially compared to a GT35R. No wonder in a big housing spools a little later.

Andy bottom line for the street 95% of the time which housing would ou rather have?

 

[andy4g63]

Andy bottom line for the street 95% of the time which housing would ou rather have?

Honestly, now probably I would consider 0.70 AR/T3. On the other hand, recently I noticed that my speedo is off by 7-8 MPH less than actual and that sometimes made me think the car was not moving as I expected.
Keep in mind I am old and lazy and sometimes definitely I should've kept the car a gear, even two lower. I think T3 0.70 AR, would be nice for you.

 

[Slippi84]

Honestly, now probably I would consider 0.70 AR/T3. On the other hand, recently I noticed that my speedo is off by 7-8 MPH less than actual and that sometimes made me think the car was not moving as I expected.
Keep in mind I am old and lazy and sometimes definitely I should've kept the car a gear, even two lower. I think T3 0.70 AR, would be nice for you.

Yeah I got caught up in the spool craze of the .55ar but I forgot I'm high compression like you and that's why your rpms don't drop because transient response is crazy with hih compressio. So it might take me longer to get to a certain rpm but I wil stay in the weet spot the whole time after that.

 

[andy4g63]

Yeah I got caught up in the spool craze of the .55ar but I forgot I'm high compression like you and that's why your rpms don't drop because transient response is crazy with hih compressio. So it might take me longer to get to a certain rpm but I wil stay in the weet spot the whole time after that.

Tyr and talk to TimG/I think. He is a N/T MODERATOR. The other day Dsm-onster was saying somewhere that he /TimG/ was getting 22psi @ like 5200RPM or so. Only I am not sure if his car isN/T or turbo. I am pretty sure you know him.

 

[Slippi84]

View Profile: TimG - DSMtuners.com
Tim has a 1g awd now

 

[ceedawg]

Andy bottom line for the street 95% of the time which housing would ou rather have?

I would like to think that a divided 14 or 16cm housing(bigger than both a .55 and.70AR

housing) with a divided exh mani would spool up faster than a .70AR housing,would

spoolup almost similar to a .55AR housing and will most of all have more top end and

better power all thru the rpm range than both the .55ar housing and the .70AR housing.

The 14 and 16cm housings I believe will be better all around.

 

[Slippi84]

I would like to think that a divided 14 or 16cm housing(bigger than both a .55 and.70AR

housing) with a divided exh mani would spool up faster than a .70AR housing,would

spoolup almost similar to a .55AR housing and will most of all have more top end and

better power all thru the rpm range than both the .55ar housing and the .70AR housing.

The 14 and 16cm housings I believe will be better all around.

Forgive my ignorance but I noticed that sometimes people reffer to housing by ar and t3/t4/bolt on but where do the 14/16cm housings come into play. IS that what holset puts on there to begin with?

Bythe way I already have a manifold and it's not divided. I could weld a dividerin there but just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[dsm-onster]

Welding in a divider is not really an option. Because the 1 & 4 runners need to be coupled to one side. Then the 2 & 3 runners need to be coupled to the right. The whole manifold will have to be butchered for you to do this. Better to start off with a new manifold altogether.

TimG runs a 1g turbo now. And he runs the stock 12cm holset housing with an undivided manifold. That is why his spool is slow. But because the housing is in effect larger, it has good topend from the logs.

I still say go for the small bep housing, if you can get it with a t3 inlet flange. The hx40 turbine is just so efficient. The flow is there and the spool is leaps better than a gt35r with a similar undivided turbine housing. Remember 650whp, hx40, small bep housing!

But, the .70 a/r housing is likely going to yield higher pumpgas numbers.