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Holset Turbos, PART 2

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Well, the new chip with the more aggressive timing requires straight race fuel. I clicked off a 12.13 for best et today, 112 for best MPH, 1.68 for best 60' and a 3.84 0-60 MPH! That 0-60 was the most exciting! I believe a chip with aggressive timing from 3000 to 6000 and then dropping to the 10* timing would be a gresat compromise. I have asked Jeff if he would burn one like that for me. No answer yet but he's been very cool with helping out. Man I am liking the Holset more all the time!! The 4" CAI helps too. Mark
 
I have ther HX-35/40 and 750's. When running near 30 psi my IDC's are way over 100%. When I do the www.rceng.com chart for figuring inj size for 550crank HP and 80% duty I get close to 950cc inj's. Are the 750's way to small? I am running a Walbro rewired and an AFPR but raising pressure is still not enough although I only raised it to 50psi. Help? Thanks, Mark
 
My guess is you are running really rich. A 112 trap is indicative of ~320whp. Running rich will max out your injectors very fast and kill power. Regardless of what the chip is supposed to be burned for, I wouldn't tune with 30 psi w/o a wideband and a good logger.
 
I have a wideband and my motor likes a 10.9:1 A/F, maybe an 11:1 best. I also have a scanmaster which shows 02 voltage and knock together. I tune for a few counts of knock and I know 02's are not good for tuning but I am around a .86-.88v. My new trap is 117MPH AND i WOULD GO LESS BOOST BUT IT SEEMS MY fORGE WILL NOT GO LOWER BUT i MAY HAVE THAT SOLVED. i WILL TRY ANOTHER RUN ON AN HOUR. Sorry about the caps! Chip is set for 10* after 6k as I am flowing 50lbs/min. I still think 750's are too small but am looking for a filter to rail line mod. Mark
 
Your airflow is good for 450-460whp if tuned right. I definately think that is rich for race gas, but without any timing control you probably have to keep it richer in the mid rnage so it won't knock. If it is only giving you 10* deg timin in the high end you are probably safe to lean it out after 6k. That should give you a little more power/better trap w/o incurring any more knock.
 
Hey Sweet97. I'm running 11.0:1 and 25 PSI now. I have a fairly linier (sp) timing curve that goes to 13* @ 7K and the highest load row. I'm running double width maps currently and running the WB into the ECU and converted the ECU to WB operation. If you have a wideband and can control the outputs or just know if it's high or low when lean you can have jeff burn that into your EPROM. I got rid of the 3200Hz logging as it was useless as I would just max it out as well. I just check out my lbs/min which was around 44 lbs/min when I was running 22 PSI. You can definitly run more timing.

BTW I found the 3200Hz logging was causing me some issues with my tuning. Be it very minor my problems when away when I got rid of it. You can also just learn how to do your own EPROMs and get a Ostrich. No need for a EPROM burner. You can tune on the fly just like dsmlink but with far more control.

So if you have a WBO2 and don't want to learn ECU crap then just ask Jeff. I know for a fact he has the code to change it. You just have to know how your 5v output goes so he can program it correctly. Otherwise it will just go lean or rich and stay their as it's thinking it's the oppisit. I know cause I had mine switched at first. Only took me 2 minutes to fix it though. The plus side is you can log your AFR with MMCD or Pocketlogger. You will just have to know what your voltage is for your AFR. I'm glad your starting to like the holeset. I'm planning on going to the track this week and see what numbers I can pull off. I think I want to get NLTS working first.
 
I'm doing this on pump and that is why Jeff has the timing go to 10* because he believes I am at 500crank HP and on pump he likes the timing down with high boost. I ordered 950cc inj's today as I was maxing nthe 750's really bad, way over 100% duty. May have to upgrade the fuel line also.
Maglin not sure what you mean about Jeff changing something to change Hz to lbs/min but I will looki into it. The 950's will allow me to run 30psi safely. Hoping to have this set-up by tuesday/wednesday. Mark
 
No. I'm talking about making the ECU use the WB. The O2 input is a 5v input on the ECU. You just have to change the code some to use a 5V WBO2. It's so much better than the NB. I'm running 91 pump BTW. I've never had race gas in the car yet. It's almost impossible to run 500 HP on pump. I think It can be done but it's a fine hairy line to walk. You will have to have control of the timing to be able to push 500 HP on pump. Not just fuel. I'm running 1000cc Injectors and I see about 65-70% IDC. I have the MAFT all zerod out.

With the Ostrich you really don't even need to know how to program the ECU. It's like using DSMlink. That is if someone gives you a good tuner file for it. I built my own that works great. I can control Stutter RPM, Stutter retard, Rev Limit, Injector comp, Timing, Fuel, ect... Every factet that I've added or can be manipulated I can change with easy. You might want to ask Jeff about that as well. I'm sure he might be willing to do something for you on that route as well. Might want some cash for his tuner file (XFD) file but it's way cheaper than DSMLink. Also ask jeff about running Knock fuel cut if you are worried about safty. I run a 19 count fuel cut. So if I go over 19 counts of knock I will fuel cut. I'm sure it's the reason my motor is still running. It makes tuning a lot nicer and safer.

Once I get a charger for my Logger I'll do some more logging soon and see what I'm running currently at 25 PSI.
 
Here's some preliminary info on the HX40:

Car setup - '92 GSX, stock 6 bolt w/ARPs, JNZ tranny, AEM EMS w/MAP and UEGO, 950s, Supra pump, FPR, 2-216 FMIC, full 3", EVO mani w/Tial 40mm, EVO o2, CM 4 puck, and little else. STOCK CAMS and intake mani!

The car is full weight with the exception of AC and front bumper removal. The stock front AND back seats are in place, stock suspension, stock wheels with all season Kuhmos.

The AEM has a rough toon that we set up on the street the night before we hit the track. It's far from ideal and we're pretty much learning the AEM as we go.

Boost was at 25psi, running C16. The car ran an 11.82 @ 121 and backed it up with another 11.82 @ 120+. Both 60' times were in the mid-high 1.7s. Granny shifting evey gear at 7k.

This turbo is begging for more boost and we've got FP2s and a JM Fab SMIM waiting to go on. I think 10s are realistic on the current setup with some more tooning and seat time.

The driveability of the HX40 is unreal. It sees 25psi under 4k easily. It's very linear and part throttle cruising it'll make 5psi just by breathing on the gas. Driving it around seriously feels like a small turbo setup. More updates to come! :thumb:
 
Hey Sweet. Just wanted your input on something. Im up to 19 psi, and my A/F is still pretty fat. but it doesn't spool till 4500. But once it starts pulling. OMFG.......... OMG.

Just woundering where the sweet spot is on this turbo. One of my friends is using it and pushes 20psi on 91 and 26psi on 110. And will tuning it on a dyno give me the low end I am missing. If it would spool by 4K I would think about keeping it, but as it stands I want something that spools a little faster, and makes big power up top. And in my mind a 50 trim, ot 20G might be up my alley. What are your thoughts? Either way I'm gonna have it dyno tuned then make up my mind. Thanks. :dsm:
 
Larry L said:
Hey Sweet. Just wanted your input on something. Im up to 19 psi, and my A/F is still pretty fat. but it doesn't spool till 4500. But once it starts pulling. OMFG.......... OMG.

Just woundering where the sweet spot is on this turbo. One of my friends is using it and pushes 20psi on 91 and 26psi on 110. And will tuning it on a dyno give me the low end I am missing. If it would spool by 4K I would think about keeping it, but as it stands I want something that spools a little faster, and makes big power up top. And in my mind a 50 trim, ot 20G might be up my alley. What are your thoughts? Either way I'm gonna have it dyno tuned then make up my mind. Thanks. :dsm:

Larry I reach 20psi around 4250 rpm's but I keep getting it better. I would stick with the Holset as I think they are amazing. I have 950cc inj's on order and already have a dsmchip set for them in the ECU. I just ordered a JM SMIM also. That may slow the spool a bit but top end is where it's at. I have a stutterbox for launching so lag is NOT an issue. I launch at 10PSI !! My motor really starts to pull at 6k rpm's as I have HKS 272's and a Buschur ported head. I expect to shift at 8400 in 1st and 2nd and then at 8k at the top of 3rd.
Try lowereing your base timing to 2* as that will help spool thwe turbo quicker. More heat will be generated with the timing retarded, works for me. If you do noy have a 4" intake GET ONE as they add a lot of spool, a must have. I have a 4" COLD AIR INTAKE. Mark
 
is there any place to buy the compressor wheels for the holset i saw them on e-bay before but haven't seen any lately.
 
i still dont see why everyone is jumping on this HOLSET band wagon like its the new trend. i bought one of these before they even started selling them to the public... from a shop other than bullseye-power.com. i didnt even use the damn thing, and sold it right away. i still haven't seen anyone other than what the sellers claim( 3 cars around 500-550whp ) make anything close to that.... why are you guys still running these turbos... and why are the new people that are looking for a turbo still interested.


It would be different if people were really going extremely fast or faster than any garrettt, innovative, precision turbos like those. but they are no different. you could buy a 60-1 and run the same thing as the Holset HX40. that turbo is claimed to flow around 70lbs/min.... but i got a compressor map from a local Peterbuilt trucking company and they told me that the turbo is really only good for 55-60lbs/min. and judging by what the compressor map looked like... it looked i dentical to a garrett 60-1 map. which is around 55-60lbs/min.


just wondering why everyone is all over these turbos like its a revolution?! thats all.
 
I didn't know the Holsets were so hot! I happen to love my HX-35/40 and expect to be in the 11's once I get more fuel. My best so far has been a 12.03, not earth shattering but pleasing to me. I run 30 PSI on pump and my 60-1 would never take 30psi for long, that's for sure, these Holsets are BEEFY! 117 best trap. Still on stock intake but a JM SMIM is on order.
You can chose to run what you like so why would it bother you that some of us LIKE the Holset? Mine just keeps getting quicker the more I tune it. I started with the 14B and then went to an EVO III 16G. Then tried a 50 trim but soon went to a 60-1 but while the 60-1 was out for repairs I bought the HX-35/40 and have kept it on ever since. Sold the 60-1. I will stay with the Holset and shoot for high 10's next season. Once my 950cc inj's get here I will get an 11 before I store it for winter. The 12.03 and 117 MPH are with me tuning with an MAFT!! I am told that the MAFT is about as low oin the tuning chain I can go but I seem to be doing all right. DSMlink may be in the future and that should get the 10.
I also like to run something different from the crowd.
Anyways enjoy what you are running and watch as the Holsets become more popular and there are more available to put times down with.
I personally could not be more pleased and the sucker flows like mad spinning the whels like it was a BB cartridge! Mark
 
yeah but dude.... you are running 950cc injectors, 30psi of boost and your only running 12.03@ 117( best trap ). thats not that impressive by any means. im not trying to take anything away from you... im really not if your happy cool! but there are better turbos out there for the same price. 30psi on pump gas is way too much on a dsm motor... i dont know how you are even running that safely... and if this is on a stock motor.. my very educated dsm advice would to be stop running that much boost on pump. or you WILL be buying a new motor very shortly.


i got nothing against the people that run this turbo.... i just would rather see people use a turbo that has a nice compressor map for a 2.0-2.4 engine. you are WAY on the left of the compressor map with this turbo and dont come anywhere near the surge line( over the surge line and into safety)... until like 15psi. im just not seeing anyone make any good power with this turbo... and for the $900 for the turbo... i would rather run something else that will spool faster which gives you more RPM of usuable boost and better power potential.

Thats all
 
98talonAWD said:
and for the $900 for the turbo... i would rather run something else that will spool faster which gives you more RPM of usuable boost and better power potential.

There are alot of people on here that picked up their Holset used or for very cheap and bought a turbine housing. There are alot of people that have less then $500 in their turbo. THAT is a big bang for the buck!! And everyone that has one LOVES it!

I love my HX35.
 
if you picked up your turbo used and bought a bullseye housing... GREAT... but if your buying them new... seriously think about what your buying. buy once so you dont have to do it twice.... i have went through 3-4 turbos so far finally coming to the one im happy with.

just research before you buy thats all. why buy a big turbo that spools later than a 60-1 but nobody makes anymore power with it?.... why?!
 
Nice job s97. Sell the maft and chiped ecu get a haltech. Put in a front mount. Get a pro to tune it. Get your 10.xx timeslips.
 
98talonAWD said:
yeah but dude.... you are running 950cc injectors, 30psi of boost and your only running 12.03@ 117( best trap ). thats not that impressive by any means. im not trying to take anything away from you... im really not if your happy cool! but there are better turbos out there for the same price. 30psi on pump gas is way too much on a dsm motor... i dont know how you are even running that safely... and if this is on a stock motor.. my very educated dsm advice would to be stop running that much boost on pump. or you WILL be buying a new motor very shortly.


i got nothing against the people that run this turbo.... i just would rather see people use a turbo that has a nice compressor map for a 2.0-2.4 engine. you are WAY on the left of the compressor map with this turbo and dont come anywhere near the surge line( over the surge line and into safety)... until like 15psi. im just not seeing anyone make any good power with this turbo... and for the $900 for the turbo... i would rather run something else that will spool faster which gives you more RPM of usuable boost and better power potential.

Thats all
I have a built motor and those numbersa were with 750cc inj's running very high idc'S SO i AM GETTING 950'S. I have a DSMchip set to run high boost on pump so no problem there. Only problem is getting ripped on the $285. ebay inj's. ow I need to get another set. I expect high 10's when I am done tuning and adding a SMIM. Mark
 
highbooster said:
Nice job s97. Sell the maft and chiped ecu get a haltech. Put in a front mount. Get a pro to tune it. Get your 10.xx timeslips.

I have been helping Mark with this project and it definitely has come a long way. Mark I am sorry to hear you got ripped off by the way. But I agree with you highbooster that his set up is lacking a few key components. To that list he is also going to need a good fuel system; lines, regulator and possibly bigger injectors if those IDC's stay high. I ran that exact turbo at around 30 PSI with 780's and didn't have that high of an IDC, I can't explain why his went so high, but I am thinking that it is a combo of the lack of tunability, and the fuel supply and volume restrictions due to the tiny stock lines and stock fuel filter even. My recommendations to get that thing running some serious numbers are to add the fuel system, engine management, and an efficient front mount and it should scoot.
 
Just got mine today, with the bullseye housing and oil lines, wastegate everything worked out to be ~500$ :

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Im not putting it on till spring because I dont have nearly enough supporting mods for this.. what would you guys reccomend for if my end goal is in the 400hp range?
Right now I just have 3" exhaust from the turbo back, and a MBC, gauges, datalogger.. also picked up a GM MAF. Thinking of getting some 780's fuel pump, and a 2G manifold while Im at it. Can I get away using the side mount till i get some more money saved up for a FMIC, keeping the boost low till then as well.
 
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