Holset Turbos, PART 2

[93AWDTalon1]

The Forge Unit looks nice. I was going to go with a Tial BOV. I forgot that big cams increase spool up. I kept almost getting cams but end up getting something else that I think I need more like the MAFT and now my Tial wastegate. I'm going to build my forged motor next and I'll kept my setup as is and see how a higher CR motor with a ported head and CAMS will effect my spool up. If it drops to 4200-4400 I'll be happy and probably kept the bullseye TH on it.


I've been debating on installing my HX-35 Turbine Wheel to my H1E CHRA. Anyone around here using a HX-40/35 hybrid? How do you like it? Is compresure surge more of an issue at low boost part throttle? I don't really want to send the money to balance the Hybrid and then have to reblance the HX-35 cause I have to go back to it.

cams and head porting will hurt your spool times which is what your going for. Making it a HX-35/40 hybrid will hurt spool up a few hundred rpms too but well worth the extra flow. So a HX-35/40 hybrid on your new engine setup should spool around where you want it.

 

[ceedawg]

Hang in there Josh.I have not installed the HX35/40turbo yet as I have been working on my BMW M3.I'm going to rebuild the blk per your recommendations(rods,pistons,inj)so I hope to get this all rolling in a month or so.I did pick up a new spearco intercooler even though my old spearco(1078cfm's) was efficient enuff I'm told.I will certainly keep you posted when all is done and complete.Carl

 

[joeracer321]

cams and head porting will hurt your spool times which is what your going for. Making it a HX-35/40 hybrid will hurt spool up a few hundred rpms too but well worth the extra flow. So a HX-35/40 hybrid on your new engine setup should spool around where you want it.

Porting and cams will not hurt spool if done correctly, in fact it could help it. Cam timing is critical, and from my experience every set up will require slightly different cam adjustments for optimum power. There are so many variables, it is best to find someone with a similar combination and start from there, but some dyno time to get it right wouldn't hurt. It is crucial that porting be accomplished by someone who knows what they are doing. Simply "hogging out" the head will definitely hurt more than it helps anything. So if the proper cams are selected as well as being dialed in for the users combination and port work done by a professional who knows how to make a head flow and keep velocity up, you will have a motor that will have good throttle response with excellent power potential.

 

[joeracer321]

Hang in there Josh.I have not installed the HX35/40turbo yet as I have been working on my BMW M3.I'm going to rebuild the blk per your recommendations(rods,pistons,inj)so I hope to get this all rolling in a month or so.I did pick up a new spearco intercooler even though my old spearco(1078cfm's) was efficient enuff I'm told.I will certainly keep you posted when all is done and complete.Carl

No problem Carl, glad to see you join in this thread. If you have any more questions pm me or give me a buzz, I have a new toll free number now as well. Good luck with your projects!

 

[sweet97]

Guys, I'm about to give up on the Holset. It seems too big even for my motor which is a Buachur stage 3 with stage 3 head ported wikth HKS 272's. I got the flutter/surge issue resolved with a TIAL BIV but seem to have a boost creep issue as I can't keep the boost below 25psi and then it seems the BOV is being forced open by the amount/pressure of the air.
I really wanted to get this turbo to work but only have a couple of options left.
I get what seems to be a pretty good lifter tick but when I pull the #4 plug wire it goes away so perhaps it's arcing and not firing that plug at 15-20PSI. Motor would pull like mad if I could keep the boost at 20psi or even higher if it didn't seem to overcome the BOV spring and feel like it's opening the BOV. Open to suggestions. mark

 

[joeracer321]

Guys, I'm about to give up on the Holset. It seems too big even for my motor which is a Buachur stage 3 with stage 3 head ported wikth HKS 272's. I got the flutter/surge issue resolved with a TIAL BIV but seem to have a boost creep issue as I can't keep the boost below 25psi and then it seems the BOV is being forced open by the amount/pressure of the air.
I really wanted to get this turbo to work but only have a couple of options left.
I get what seems to be a pretty good lifter tick but when I pull the #4 plug wire it goes away so perhaps it's arcing and not firing that plug at 15-20PSI. Motor would pull like mad if I could keep the boost at 20psi or even higher if it didn't seem to overcome the BOV spring and feel like it's opening the BOV. Open to suggestions. mark

I remember you said you switched the wastegate actuator. Make sure that the wastegate actuator is working properly and not hanging up on anything. Try switching back to the original actuator and give it a shot. The flutter issue is definitely BOV related since it occurs on throttle lift rather than WOT so it is not compressor surge either. I am sorry to hear the amount of problems you have been encountering on your project, unfortunately sometimes it goes that way. But no matter what way you decide to go I am still here to help with any other questions you might have. Good luck!

 

[Larry L]

I have recently purchased the HX35 turbine housing and am installing it on my 2G Spyder. Mods list on file. How much boost can I realistically run on my RC 550's? Any suggestions?

 

[Larry L]

Guys, I'm about to give up on the Holset. It seems too big even for my motor which is a Buachur stage 3 with stage 3 head ported wikth HKS 272's. I got the flutter/surge issue resolved with a TIAL BIV but seem to have a boost creep issue as I can't keep the boost below 25psi and then it seems the BOV is being forced open by the amount/pressure of the air.
I really wanted to get this turbo to work but only have a couple of options left.
I get what seems to be a pretty good lifter tick but when I pull the #4 plug wire it goes away so perhaps it's arcing and not firing that plug at 15-20PSI. Motor would pull like mad if I could keep the boost at 20psi or even higher if it didn't seem to overcome the BOV spring and feel like it's opening the BOV. Open to suggestions. mark

Talk to Dave at Bullseye Power 231-788-5209. He told me that the early Turbine housings where made wrong and that they had problems with the wastegate doors (internal) not functioning right. He also said that if you have an early turbine housing exibiting this problem or the more common problem of boost falling off once the car gets warm he will replace it with a later style turbine housing. Good luck.

 

[92awddsm]

Guys, I'm about to give up on the Holset. It seems too big even for my motor which is a Buachur stage 3 with stage 3 head ported wikth HKS 272's. I got the flutter/surge issue resolved with a TIAL BIV but seem to have a boost creep issue as I can't keep the boost below 25psi and then it seems the BOV is being forced open by the amount/pressure of the air.
I really wanted to get this turbo to work but only have a couple of options left.
I get what seems to be a pretty good lifter tick but when I pull the #4 plug wire it goes away so perhaps it's arcing and not firing that plug at 15-20PSI. Motor would pull like mad if I could keep the boost at 20psi or even higher if it didn't seem to overcome the BOV spring and feel like it's opening the BOV. Open to suggestions. mark

Which spring are you running in your tial? I have upgraded to a tial also and have found their tuning method is different than most bov's. Check this out to determine which spring to use. On a side note, I was opening the txs bov at just 19 psi with 7 shims installed. Not with the tial and the -9 spring(I see somewhere between 12-14 in/hg of vac with 101200's) I can hold 24 psi all day long with no leaks. I havent gone above that yet, but I do run 24psi on pump with my car. Hopefully, I can see if it will hold 30psi next weekend if I make it to the track.

 

[sweet97]

TIAL is holding well with a 7# spring. The 9# caused too much surge. I am looking into a possible ignition problem, possibly a faulty coil. I will put a spare coil pack on wednesday. Porting the turbine housing will have to wait until winter. mark
PS: 550's will not bring the HX-35 into it's sweet range. I had to go to 750's from my 650's with my HX-35/40. mark
25psi seems to be a good psi to run with these turbo's.
550's would tax an EVO 16G. Upgrade.

 

[Larry L]

Well sweet spot aside. How much boost can be ran on the hx-35 and 550's. 15-16psi? Just cusious so I can get a starting point of reference. This till I can afford 780cc injectors. Thank you. Larry

 

[sweet97]

How do you log? I'd keep the boost down to 10-12. Be safe than sorry. Also have you ran it yet? I can't keep my boost below 27/28psi due to creep. That will be a winter project, porting the wastegate. mark

 

[sweet97]

Have made some progress. Changed the coil and found my AFPR line was blowing off under the high boost I have to run and put an extra clamp on that and then there was a plastic piece on the fuekl pressure solenoid facing the firewall that I have been told bleeds off extra boost signal from the solenoid(?). Well my plastic cover was quite loose so I removed it and capped the nipple. I seem to run without any misfire now. QUESTION? When tuning for high rpm/high boost does the tuning change? In other words is anything different compared to lower levels?
I have a 1G so I tune with knock and my wideband. No or minimal knock, maybe a few counts which go to zero as RPM's rise. Should I be more conservative and tune for ZERO counts of knock? It seems the A/F at these high boost levels becomes more critical and I want to do this correctly. I will be switching my MAF-Translator to the fine tuning RPM mode. I understand it is easier for the ECU to read RPM's over airflow at high flow/rpm's. I am also going to get a 4" intake on the Holset now. I have 4" piping but need 2 couplers. I will order them today.
What have guys who upgraded to the 4" intake from say a 3" with reducer seen for spool, much quicker? Better high boost flow? Thanks, Mark
Hey guys how about someone with more knowledge than me(That's most of you!) Helping Larry with his "amount of boost question". Having a 1G I have a scanmaster which shows injector duty ncycle and I also have a wideband so knowing my injector limits is easy to judge.

 

[sweet97]

Good News! Joeracer321 solved my boost creep issue. It was my own stupidity! My MBC failed and so I just removed the vac/boost signal line from the actuator altogether. Spool waas super quick but the pressure required to open the wastegate was so much that I got boost levels higher than I could accept. Joeracer321(Joshua) took at least a half hour on the phone with me going over my set-up and he truly wants to help me get my car running well. He's been on the receiving end of some of my frustration also and has acted professionally and caring bearing with me.
4" intake next week. Glad Josh and I stuck with this Holset as I am impressed with it's characteristics, especially it's free spinning wheels. More to come! thanks, Mark

 

[Larry L]

How much did you have to crush the water piping behind the turbo to get the HX-35 to fit? I crushed mine quite a bit but am now having a leak were the pipe goes into the water pump. I'm thinking its probably the turbo putting pressure on the pipe where it meets. So I'm gonna crush it a little more to see if I can't get the turbo to clear the pipe without impeding water flow. Any suggestions.

 

[sweet97]

Larry I had the exact problem. I ended up removing the pipe from the water pump and greasing the rubber o-ring and then re-installed the pipe with the extra crushing done with the pipe off the engine if you need more crushing. Hasn't leaked since. Mark

 

[Larry L]

Yeah we further crushed the pipe last night and it fixed the problem. Now I'm have to change the oil feed line I purchased because it is 3/8 diameter and that is way to big. Car idles fine, but as soon as I rev it even a bit the lifters start singing from the lack of oil. Hey, but the turbo has plenty of oil though!

 

[PSI TSI]

I just put 272s in my car and I find it spools a bit better but off boost it has helped alot.

 

[Maglin]

Sweet97. Is your boost creep fixed or it's being fixed? Since I moved down a couple of thousand feet in elevation I don't have such a boost creep issuse as I did. I don't creep to 28 PSI anymore. In 3rd+ I have the EBC set to 20 PSI which it holds and stays until about 7.5K when it starts to raise to about 24-25 PSI by 8.5K.

I happen to have a very early bullseye housing and will be calling very soon to get it exchanged for a new one.

I took a buddy for a drive in the DSM for his first time out in it. He said it's the 2nd fastest car he has ever been in. The fastest being a high 7 second corvet. Makes me feel a little better. I think I've decided that the HX-35 just is to small for me though. I'm going to swap out the turbine wheel with my H1E and give it a go with the HX-35 housing. If that doesn't satisfy me I'm going to just say screw it and run a H1E or HX-40 with it's original TH and see how that goes. Crappy thing is that I have to get a new downpipe or maybe just a O2 housing made for it cause of the strange turbine outlet.

 

[sweet97]

Maglin I'm half way there. I have a new boost controller ordered, a Forge UNOS, that is the hot controller right now. I boost to 25/27psi with a hose T'ed into the BOV line and attached to the actuator. The amount of boost is OK but I hope the MBC will allow the turbo to spool quicker.
I have another issue with the timing being pulled even without knock in higher boost/rpm's.I also got a 4" intake pipe on which helped, especially in part throttle applications. Getting there. Mark

 

[93AWDTalon1]

I boost to 25/27psi with a hose T'ed into the BOV line and attached to the actuator. The amount of boost is OK but I hope the MBC will allow the turbo to spool quicker.

I would think that if mbc isn't working right and telling the wastegate to open then I would think when you get one that works it would spool a little slower since the wastegate will be opening more.

 

[sweet97]

I would think that if mbc isn't working right and telling the wastegate to open then I would think when you get one that works it would spool a little slower since the wastegate will be opening more.

I believe the MBC should hold the wastegate closed longer assisting spool rather than getting a boost signal right from the beginning of boost. Mark

 

[sweet97]

Getting better. The TIAL works great! I am boostoing to 25-27 PSI no problem with the BOV. KEYDIVER made me a new chip with a more agressive timing curve but he said with the amount of air I am flowing(3200Hz) that it is taking the ECV into a higher map and that the 18* he programmed in would be too much, he was right! Even with 5.7 gallons of 112 leaded addwed I am getting what seems to be a mild fuel cut even the chip has the fuel cut removed! I ordered a fuel pump rewire kit to see if that solves anything. If thye Forge UNOS MBC gets here I may make more power with the aggressive timing and 20-22 psi boost or whatever the most I can run without driveability issues is. I got the MAF-Translator into RPM fine tuning mode and my Scanmaster has a "G=tech" feature and me best had been a 13.48 but I put down a 12.03 sec. 1/4.
Looks like the Holset is going to be a keeper. It has a ton of potential that I am not yet taking advantage of. Quicker spool wilkl make it awsesome as starting at 2000 rpm rolling 3rd gear it takes to 5500RPM's to hit 20 PSI of boost. With the stutterbox launch spool is not an issue. However if the MBC holds the wastegate closed a few more seconds I should knock 1000rpm's off that and get 20PSI by 4500 which would add a lot! I also got a 4" intake pipe on and was able to retain the Cold Air Intake feature I like so much. Looks huge, like a sewer pipe! Allows the turbo to take advantage of the MWE feature.
I was thinking of another chip with more agressive timing from 3000 RPM's to 6000 RPM's when then it would drop timing to 10* advance for the high airflow. The first chip would drop to 11*-12* at 3500RPM's when it will ahndle 18* from that point to 6k. What do you guys think about that, more timing from 3500 to 6000 RPM's? Adding DSMlink seems like a logical choice for future tuning but I am not computer literate so I am staying with KEYDIVER as long as I can. I'll update any news as it comes along! mark

 

[boostmaniac]

I Just bouhgt a HX 35/40 and I am just waiting for some more numbers to go off of. I have a 2.0 bored.40 over and I am thinking that I should spool this turbo pretty decent from what it sounds like from other people. Keep this great info coming!
Justin

 

[unlikely hero]

Talk to Dave at Bullseye Power 231-788-5209. He told me that the early Turbine housings where made wrong and that they had problems with the wastegate doors (internal) not functioning right. He also said that if you have an early turbine housing exibiting this problem or the more common problem of boost falling off once the car gets warm he will replace it with a later style turbine housing. Good luck.

How long ago would be considered an "early" turbine housing?

Also any of you guys know where you can pick up just the hx35 compressor housing? I kinda ####ed mine up trying to polish it.

=Jason-