1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

Holset Turbos, PART 2

Posted by Morphius, Jul 24, 2005

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Please Support Kiggly Racing
Please Support Fuel Injector Clinic
  1. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

    1,336
    41
    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan
    Continue on..........

    For more discussion history:
    Link to Part 1 :
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 2:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

    Link to Part 3:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

    Link to Part 4:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

    Link to Part 5:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

    Link to Part 6:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

    Link to Part 7:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

    Link to Part 8:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

    Link to Part 9:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


    For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
    Link to FAQ:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


    For in vehicle results:
    Link to Results Only:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

    Link to HX-52 setup;
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


    For more specific component discussion:
    Link to Holset Part #'s:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

    Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

    Link to Fake Holset Info:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


    Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
    HX35:

    The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

    The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

    HY35:

    The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! :) It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

    H1C/WH1C:

    In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

    I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

    HX35-40 hybrid:

    Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

    HX40:

    The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

    The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

    H1E/WH1E:

    The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

    The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

    HX52:

    This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

    Misc.:

    • Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
    • The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
    • Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
    • They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
    • There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
    • The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.



    Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

    HX35 Compressors:
    50mm / 78mm 7-blade
    52mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 78mm 7-blade
    54mm / 83mm 8-blade
    56mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


    HX40:Compressors:

    56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
    58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
    60mm / 83mm 8-blade

    Turbine: 76mm / 64mm
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  2. PSI TSI

    PSI TSI Proven Member

    61
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    North Bay, ON, Canada
    Ok since its not exactly clear anymore, This is for interested people wanting to know how many Holsets are in use and how they do with them.

    I have a H1c with a modified 18cm housing externally gated Im running 20 psi with 680's and a maft. I ran 8.46 @90mph in the 1/8th I run dead even rolling start in 2nd with a buddies ls1 camero who dynos at 312rwhp Im also awd. In summary Im happy with the turbo it is alot better than the 14b it replaced, the only thing I would do differently is to get the bullseye housing or a 12cm stock housing. I piad 150 for it on ebay so for that kind of coin what can you complain about.

    Who else is running these and what do you think of it.

    My Car.

    98 tsi Awd

    stock 6 bolt -bal shafts
    maft custom 21/2" piping
    stock side mount
    water/alky inj.
    stock pump 3/8 fuel line
    afpr
    680cc injectors
    3" exaust from turbo back

    asfar as I can tell there is no compressor surge, Im running 20-25psi so maybe Im above the suge line. An h1c is supossed to be the same as a hx35.
     
  3. Morphius

    Morphius DSM Wiseman

    1,336
    41
    Joined Jun 9, 2003
    M-Town, Michigan

    You should list all your mods to your car too. Engine size, exhaust, etc. (again, if you already have in the other thread.)

    Do you have any issues with compressor surge? I read somewhere (I think DSMTalk) that someone had issues with compressor surge, given these are being run at boost levels lower than what they were designed for.
     
  4. highbooster

    highbooster Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Oct 27, 2002
    ,
    hx40

    70lbs per hour
    4 inch in/2 inch out
    7 blade comp wheel
    60mm
    spins much much much more free than the old majestic 20g
     

    Attached Files:

  5. highbooster

    highbooster Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Oct 27, 2002
    ,
    just for your viewing pleasure i posted 4 pics of 2 diffrent billet comp wheels i have. :sneaky:
     

    Attached Files:

  6. BGRIPTP

    BGRIPTP Proven Member

    241
    0
    Joined May 29, 2003
    Parma Hts., Ohio
    I am also in the market for a HX40 with the Bullseye Housing, lets see some good reviews and info... :thumb:
     
  7. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    If my Turboonertics 60-1 does not perform well after it's rebuild I am considering the HX-35 but there just isn't much feedback available. Please those with experience please share! Mark
     
  8. PSI TSI

    PSI TSI Proven Member

    61
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    North Bay, ON, Canada
    edited above post
     
  9. highbooster

    highbooster Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Oct 27, 2002
    ,
    with a fuel pump and a intercooler your going to fly.
     
  10. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    Well I bought a Holset today. I got the HX-35/40 hybrid that GRE performance was selling, slightly used. I will have it friday and hopefully have it running the same day. Mounting it to a new DNP header also. I am having my Turbonetics 60-1 rebuilt, new CHRA and turbine housing and told Joshua I would sell the one I liked the least. He said I will be selling the 60-1.
    The problem will be fabbing a 4" intake pipe so I can retain my COLD AIR INTAKE! Maybe Dave at dejontool can fashion an intake with 4" piping.
    Anyways I will be able to have some feedback soon. I have had an EVO III 16G, 50 trim, 60-1 and now the HX-35/40. Mark
     
  11. joeracer321

    joeracer321 Proven Member

    268
    2
    Joined Aug 27, 2004
    Lancaster, California
    There is no doubt that you will be happy with the Holset turbo. It is a solid performer, the turbine and compressor wheels are much more efficient and have better design characteristics over the 60-1. The 60-1 is a good turbo but it is not in the same league as a hybrid Holset turbo. For those of you out there with the "MWE" Map Width Enhancement compressor covers, make sure you really take advantage of that feature and use a 4" intake. I tested a 3" and 4" intake and there was a near 250 RPM spool difference between the two on my car!
     
  12. PSI TSI

    PSI TSI Proven Member

    61
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    North Bay, ON, Canada
    Really I have a 3" cover Ill have to look for a 4" now forsure.
     
  13. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    Thanks for some more encouragement Josh. Anyone know where/how to get a 4" inlet pipe that will allow me to use my filter in the old SMIC location? That's where i run my 3" and do not want to lose the CAI advantage either. Mark
     
    Jacob hoke likes this.
  14. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    Which wheel is what HX wheel? The first looks more narly, agreessive. Mark
     
  15. starion87

    starion87 Proven Member

    13
    0
    Joined Feb 24, 2005
    Franklin, Pennsylvania
    For the 4" pipe, I used 4" exhaust pipe and cut and welded wedges together. This worked out perfect so I could use my new 4" K&N.

    I'm running an Hy-35 (2002) on my 87 Mitsu Starion, 2.6L. I love the turbo!!! It spools almost as quick s the tiny 12a I had on it stock. I ran it on the TBI setup for a little bit this year but have since MPI's the car. It only got better...I have run it up to 14psi and it pulls like it never has before. I'm waiting to crank up the boost till after I get the new P&P head on, with the MLS and ARP's.

    I have noticed a tiny bit of compressor stall, but I'm only running 9psi around town and it's the real low boost setting I notice it. It's not always either.

    I know this is the DSM forum, but I've been follow the other Holset post and thought I would add my comments.

    These are my mods.
    Stock bottom end 2.6L w/BS
    Shaved head
    3 angle valve job
    Schneider 274 cam
    Mechanical lifters
    Recurved distrib (soon to be EDIS)
    E2315 High output fuel pump (going to replace with a Walbro)
    Customer header I built (Equal length with in 1/3")
    Customer adaptor plate I made to addapt a MX6 MPI to my head
    Ported intake
    65mm Ford TB
    2 1/4" Hard Pipes
    4" Intake Pipe w/a K&N cone filter
    72lbs Delphi injectors
    MegaSquirt MSnS stand alone fuel management (soon to control boost and spark)
    3" Down Pipe
    2.5" full catless exhaust w/a Hooker Turbo muffler
    Modified cooling system (need a bigger radiator I feel)

    Those are the majority of my mods. I'm excited to put the new head on with the MLS and ARP's and crank up the boost to 20 psi.

    I also have some minor things to do here and there which will wait till winter.

    Shawn
     
  16. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    I'm a member of starquestclub.com. Welded wedges would have some sharp edges and the thought of some slag coming loose and going into the turbo frightens me! Thanks for 1 option and great to see guys advancing the Starion/Conquests! Mark
     
  17. starion87

    starion87 Proven Member

    13
    0
    Joined Feb 24, 2005
    Franklin, Pennsylvania
    MitsuMark?

    I'm esirtype?....


    I'm not worried about slag, or anything coming loose. I cleaned out the inside of the intake pipe with a sanding paddle bit on the die grinder.
    I'm loving this Holset!

    Shawn
     
  18. spoolinawd91

    spoolinawd91 Proven Member

    40
    0
    Joined Jan 10, 2005
    Mt. Washington, Kentucky
    Well let us know how it spools on a 2.0L, I think GRE performance was getting 20+psi by 3900-4000 rpm on a 2.3L
     
  19. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    marksweet
     
  20. highbooster

    highbooster Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Oct 27, 2002
    ,
    the one in the red pic is a 7 blade hx40 [they have 6,7,8 blades]
    the second and third pic is of a 55mm cnc billet wheel [street]
    the fourth and fifth pic is of a cnc billet 72mm [race]
     
  21. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    Do the Holsets come with the MWE covered with the "silencer" or uncovered and why? Thanks, Mark

    No one knows why it seems most remove it? Has anyone tried both ways and found one better for spool? How about a poll, which way do YOU have yours? Mark
     
  22. PSI TSI

    PSI TSI Proven Member

    61
    0
    Joined Aug 25, 2002
    North Bay, ON, Canada
    Its only on there for noise purposes. Im sure it doesnt effect spool at all.
    But hey What do I know. :)
     
  23. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    Well I got the HX-35/40 installed today. Still have some bugs to work out as the housing is big. I need to clock the comp housing about an inch away from the motor mount as my elbow is being pinched by the mount. Water pipe is leaking at the pump and will have to replace the O-ring shortly. Boost is closer to 4500 rpm's. However after 20 psi my stock BOV blows open and it misfires. need to get a GOOD BOV, suggestions for a BOV using an internal gate? I also may sell the holset actuator and use my billet AGP that nounts on the 02 housing. PM if anyone needs a Holset actuator.
    More to come. Tuning suggestions welcome.Like A/F to run on opump, I was thinking 11:1 and themn setting for as much timing as I can without knock, sound good? Mark
     
  24. GSX4LIFE

    GSX4LIFE Proven Member

    674
    7
    Joined Aug 17, 2002
    Perform the 1G BOV high boost mod. It will hold 30psi no problem after this. I would deffinately use the AGP Billet actuator. I was telling poeple that awhile ago with these Holsets. Not sure why Bullseye didnt offer the actuators off the O2 housing. Much better fitment. I was running my actuator like that years ago when I had an internal gate.
     

    644  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    12.302 @ 120.340 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  25. sweet97

    sweet97 Proven Member

    2,369
    18
    Joined Mar 6, 2004
    auburn, New York
    Which 1g BOV mod are you referring to, the one dejon sells or the vfaq one? have you tried it yourself?
    Yeah I will probablly use the billet AGP actuator as I am used to that and it seems guys could use the holset actuator, the do-it-yourselfers. Also have a resonator, louvered that necks to 2.25" from 3" that will have to go. Then some help tuning as I should make more power at 20 psi than I am. mark

    I just checked out the VFAQ 1G BOV mod and it seems I would lose the BOV function but gain 30PSI holding capability. Not blowing off is not good, damages the turbo, what good is that! Am I missing something?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Archer Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory WheelWell.com