1G Failed break-in, bearing wear opinions

[97gsxIA]

Long story short, I had a 6bolt shortblock built by one of the bigger names in the DSM community. Who I will leave off this post for now.

First oil change was clean, second was glitter. Crank had walked. End play was .011. Caught it early.

40 miles total. Pulled the engine, contacted the builder and he immediately started questioning my clutch setup. I walked through with him my setup, clutch adjustment measurements (confirming clutch wasn't preloading the crank) Yada Yada Yada. I even bore scoped a video of the mated engine/trans to prove the input shaft sleeve wasn't riding the clutch disk hub, as he also jumped to that conclusion.

I was expecting to see just the thrust surface worn up, but it was the thrust surface AND that entire half of the center main bearing.

Crank journals are spotless.

Curious of others opinions. I'm of the mind of a botched machinist or him not aligning the thrust bearing on assembly. Not to say my heavy pressure plate wasn't contributing... but to do it in 40 miles when I had the same clutch for 6 years on my last one is hard to believe.

Anyone have any thoughts on this wear pattern?

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[97gsxIA]

Got the car back together for round 2.
Switched to a Southbend clutch just in case. New slave, New master, bled and adjusted more times than I could think.

Kept it on jackstands and in the garage, no driving. Changed the oil after getting it up to temp and varying the rpms between 2-4k while pushing the clutch 9-10 times to verify engagement window was 2" off the floor and no pump-up on the slave. Oil pressure was typical (high) of not having balance shafts 45-75 through the rev range.

First oil change: bearing glitter.

Ripped the front wheel off and put a dial indicator on the crank pulley. Endplay is .004 now instead of .002. Got bearing material and another .002 of clearance from running for less than 10 minutes.

I want to keep this post clean of accusation but also bring awareness to the community about this builder. So I am open to suggestions from the mods.
Can I say who built this (without accusation) so people can be aware and form their own opinions through my experience?

I remember the days of John Walker and Mike Huml and I'm not saying grab your pitchforks like we did with those guys. But something has to be said.

The ordeal with this engine has been enough to make me consider leaving the platform entirely and I would hate for that to happen to others.

I'm putting the car on indefinite hiatus until I recover some of my sanity and money.

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[Spleen8urLSX]

At this point you have every right to make the shop known. Just because they’re well known doesn’t make for a special pass.

 

[fourgsixty3]

Damn dude, sorry you're going through this. Have you spoken with the builder or are you done with him at this point and trying to avoid additional aggravation? Based off of your previous ordeal with them I wouldn't be surprised if you were blamed for this due to your disassembly/reassembly.

 

[97gsxIA]

I emailed them the minute after I saw the glitter. They asked if I had an oil cooler, which I don't. Sent me a video they had taken of the endplay measurement that came out to .004. And are saying they have no fault in workmanship.

I can only contribute the delta between my endplay measurement and theirs to them maybe doing it dry and me doing it with lube.

I put it through another heat cycle, still on stands doing the same thing i did before. Changed the oil and it was almost clear.

Only thing I can do at this point is drive it and change the oil again and hope for clean oil and check the endplay every oil change until I'm satisfied it's staying put.
Or pull the pan.

They didn't say shit about what they cleaned other than the crank (I'm doubting anything at all) best case scenario is the engine is purging itself of what was left in it on the first go around.
I did clean my lifters and rockers and they did have flakes in them at that time.

I give it a 20/80 chance it pulls through even with the cleaner oil on the 2nd change.

 

[pauleyman]

I emailed them the minute after I saw the glitter. They asked if I had an oil cooler, which I don't. Sent me a video they had taken of the endplay measurement that came out to .004. And are saying they have no fault in workmanship.

If it's stock oil system you most definately do have an oil cooler.

 

[danl]

I emailed them the minute after I saw the glitter. They asked if I had an oil cooler, which I don't. Sent me a video they had taken of the endplay measurement that came out to .004. And are saying they have no fault in workmanship.

I can only contribute the delta between my endplay measurement and theirs to them maybe doing it dry and me doing it with lube.

I put it through another heat cycle, still on stands doing the same thing i did before. Changed the oil and it was almost clear.

Only thing I can do at this point is drive it and change the oil again and hope for clean oil and check the endplay every oil change until I'm satisfied it's staying put.
Or pull the pan.

They didn't say shit about what they cleaned other than the crank (I'm doubting anything at all) best case scenario is the engine is purging itself of what was left in it on the first go around.
I did clean my lifters and rockers and they did have flakes in them at that time.

I give it a 20/80 chance it pulls through even with the cleaner oil on the 2nd change.

I don’t think you can 100% purge the debris from the lifters. Have you cut apart the oil filter to see how much debris is in there?

 

[97gsxIA]

If it's stock oil system you most definately do have an oil cooler.

Im far from stock.
I have a FFOHF, no cooler. Everything in my cars profile is up to date except this block/head combo and clutch.

I don’t think you can 100% purge the debris from the lifters. Have you cut apart the oil filter to see how much debris is in there?

The whole thing shoulda been cleaned.
That's the rub.

I cut the filters up both times. 1st go was expectedly full of the same fine material I found in the oil. 2nd change with the cleaner oil had very minimal of the same fine material. The rest of the oil was 99% clean, a very drastic change. It's the only reason I'm giving it a 20/80 success rate at this point.

I'll give the car a spin for 30-40 miles. If it's clear, and endplay is in spec (which is a big IF) I'll continue.If more of the same or worse, I'm hanging it up for the year.

 

[bastarddsm]

Do you have a picture of the crank thrust surfaces, before/after whatever?

 

[97gsxIA]

Do you have a picture of the crank thrust surfaces, before/after whatever?

Sorry no I do not. At least I cant find any good ones of the thrust surfaces. I did give it the ol eyeball and machinists square after I got it back and it seemed as good as my eye could tell that it was smooth and straight

 

[TJCTalon]

Man you are too nice of a guy. I would have blasted the shops name at this point if I were in your shoes. I had a similar situation on a 5.9 cummins engine I replaced in my pickup, and after I had problems with the 2nd engine they sent me I went scorched earth on Facebook.

 

[97gsxIA]

Decided not to drive anywhere. Just keep it on the jackstands for another heat cycle and actuate the clutch more while varying rpms.

Glitter again in the oil.
Checked endplay again: .009

That's it for me boys. I got the money to find another engine, just not the will to pursue it.

I've gotten permission from the site leaders here to post the builders name.

The builder of this shortblock is Devin Schultz.

This isn't an accusation, but merely a disclosure of information.
This thread is merely documenting my experience and seeking opinion.

Thanks everyone for chiming in and helping. I never thought that in the 15 years I've been doing this DSM shit, would one experience force me to throw in the towel. But we're knocking on that door now.

Who knows maybe I'll dust it off in a year or two.

Man you are too nice of a guy. I would have blasted the shops name at this point if I were in your shoes. I had a similar situation on a 5.9 cummins engine I replaced in my pickup, and after I had problems with the 2nd engine they sent me I went scorched earth on Facebook.

I don't have Facebook. I'm just not a huge social media guy.
Sorry to hear about your Cummins. The He351's on them aren't far off from what I ran on this car, a good ol' HX40

 

[TJCTalon]

Decided not to drive anywhere. Just keep it on the jackstands for another heat cycle and actuate the clutch more while varying rpms.

Glitter again in the oil.
Checked endplay again: .009

That's it for me boys. I got the money to find another engine, just not the will to pursue it.

I've gotten permission from the site leaders here to post the builders name.

The builder of this shortblock is Devin Schultz.

This isn't an accusation, but merely a disclosure of information.
This thread is merely documenting my experience and seeking opinion.

Thanks everyone for chiming in and helping. I never thought that in the 15 years I've been doing this DSM shit, would one experience force me to throw in the towel. But we're knocking on that door now.

Who knows maybe I'll dust it off in a year or two.


I don't have Facebook. I'm just not a huge social media guy.
Sorry to hear about your Cummins. The He351's on them aren't far off from what I ran on this car, a good ol' HX40

I don't blame you on the social media. I use it mostly for the classifieds. Sucks to hear a shop like Boostin could produce work like this. I'm sorry man, these projects can be so draining.

I got the cummins figured out eventually, but I would definitely not do business with them again haha

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

I don't think Devin Schultz built that engine. I think one of his "associates" did. That's how it works. It would be best to say that Boostin Performance built your engine, not Devin specifically. Edit: I stand corrected. Apparently he is short on extra hands, once again.

Years ago when I still used Facebook, I would see Boostin posting about needing mechanics, tuners, and engine builders. I remember seeing this multiple times. I'm not sure if they couldn't keep good help or just had intentions of a large expansion. And I frankly could care less. They would always go back and delete the old post before making a new one. That is enough in itself.

Like someone else already stated, just because they can build an engine to last a pass or two doesn't mean they should be building engines intended to be used practically.

*I have no personal experience with Devin, Boostin, or any of his "associates" as I'd never place a DSM in a shop's hands. I'm just providing truth, mixed with unbiased opinion.

We all love to see that Red Demon setting records, but all that glitters isn't gold, and no possessions are a representative of character.

 

[curt-s]

From .004 to .009 with practically nothing going on, I'm wondering if the #3 is getting any oil at all.

For example, my engine had a few hundred, if not a thousand or more, kilometers on it with an improperly adjusted clutch master that would keep constant pressure on the pressure plate due to pump-up (previous owner's mechanic didn't know shit), and even after all that, it was .005 when I found the problem and put a bunch more mileage on it.

The second wonder is.. is that even your crankshaft or was it swapped. I've read many a horror story of some shops changing parts out for whatever reason they deemed legitimate at the time

 

[97gsxIA]

I don't think Devin Schultz built that engine. I think one of his "associates" did. That's how it works. It would be best to say that Boostin Performance built your engine, not Devin specifically.

Devin told me to my face that it was he, himself who built the engine, twice. Not any associate or employee.

So it would be best if that is what is said.

From .004 to .009 with practically nothing going on, I'm wondering if the #3 is getting any oil at all.

For example, my engine had a few hundred, if not a thousand or more, kilometers on it with an improperly adjusted clutch master that would keep constant pressure on the pressure plate...

The second wonder is.. is that even your crankshaft or was it swapped. I've read many a horror story of some shops changing parts out for whatever reason they deemed legitimate at the time

The all new clutch hydraulics, different clutch setup and absolute insane times I bled, adjusted and borescoped the clutch was done completely out of paranoia that I did this to myself. After doing all that I am now 100% sure I did nothing to cause this.

I didn't see anything blocking the main oil ports, which are relatively large on 6 bolts. I'm not even interested in finding out what it is anymore. It's an unusable block. No one in their right mind would reuse a block and crank after its walked twice in under 40 miles / 1 hour of running.

 

[Ludachris]

I never thought that in the 15 years I've been doing this DSM shit, would one experience force me to throw in the towel. But we're knocking on that door now.

That's a lot of money to lose in a short timespan - I don't think anyone would blame you for feeling the way you do. Just know that this could easily happen with any other platform out there, not that it makes it any easier to accept or deal with. Building cars can be heartbreaking at times. And running into situations like this can definitely put a sour taste in your mouth with some shops we've come to admire and trust in our market. I know I've been screwed over by some very well known names/brands in the DSM world. Brands that a lot of DSMers are huge fans of. One of them made a commitment with me, strung me along for over a year, lied to me and completely ghosted me. I couldn't believe someone so revered in the DSM world would do such a thing, but it happens.

Having legendary achievements, products and/or notoriety doesn't always mean they'll have integrity and deliver on commitments in all situations - even from some of the people seen as legends in this community and others. Hopefully you're able to work with them to get things taken care of and minimize your losses. My fingers are crossed for you.

 

[1cleangsx]

To me as an average intelligence Joe Nobody on this forum with a 700hp dsm this $hits crazy . I literally decided on a power goal, bought the rods/pistons turbo etc to achieve that, dropped off my block/head at a machine shop in ft. Collins Colorado with a $1800 bill, I have the receipt. There’s gotta be more to this story, on either your behalf or Devin’s, I feel terrible for you, As I’d probably hang it up and say screw it if the same happened to me, but there’s gotta be more to the story/engine besides “Devin Shultz screwed me”

 

[Ludachris]

To me as an average intelligence Joe Nobody on this forum with a 700hp dsm this $hits crazy . I literally decided on a power goal, bought the rods/pistons turbo etc to achieve that, dropped off my block/head at a machine shop in ft. Collins Colorado with a $1800 bill, I have the receipt. There’s gotta be more to this story, on either your behalf or Devin’s, I feel terrible for you, As I’d probably hang it up and say screw it if the same happened to me, but there’s gotta be more to the story/engine besides “Devin Shultz screwed me”

Well he didn’t actually make that accusation. He’s given a detailed account of everything that happened to this point. Someone reading this thread could come away with that conclusion, based on what’s taken place. One could also make an assumption that he did something wrong with the install. That really isn’t the point though. The thread was posted to gather advice. So what would you suggest he do at this point given everything he’s shared?

 

[1cleangsx]

If it were me I would send the engine back to the “builder” to tear it down and explain exactly WHY it failed AGAIN. THEN from there make a decision. Maybe the block is junk. Maybe it’s the crank. I agree with the OP I wouldn’t want to re use that block or crank, but again if I were the OP I’d probably be moving on from dsm’s , however I’d be dying to know specifically what the cancer is with this engine.

On my current motor, I initially was still pushing in the clutch on start up with a south bend SSX 2700lb pressure plate, no issue there, original stock 6 bolt crank, this was late 2021, may of 2023 Steven @biglady112 unplugged my clutch switch before I even backed my car off the trailer for the dyno tune, my motor is still alive. This engine had to of had some other kind of Achilles heel or Devin’s 6 sec passes were “deep fakes” just sayin

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

This engine had to of had some other kind of Achilles heel or Devin’s 6 sec passes were “deep fakes” just sayin

That simply is not a fair comparison though. Devin's car runs a billet engine block, to start with. Aside from the valve cover and cylinder head, it isn't much of a 4g. That engine and others get broken and revised so often, that it really doesn't matter. It just has to make passes for the weekend, then off for another rebuild, or total re-production. I'm sure that I was not the only person to see it spewing coolant through the side pipe after two passes. That obviously is not related to main bearings or crankwalk, and is only to be expected at such a boost level. My point is, you can't compare a purpose built (and constantly rebuilt) race application to a street car. So sure, your engine has held up fine. And likely had proper machining and clearances respectively. Which was not the case for the OP. And the Red Demon's engine is irrelevant to either you or the OP since it is not the same.

 

[We're on Boost]

however I’d be dying to know specifically what the cancer is with this engine.

Yeah I think it would be super interesting if @97gsxIA were to tear the engine down himself to see if he can figure out what happened.
If he had the time and the interest to do it.
Probably right now he doesn't but I'd sure watch any kind of unravelling he can do.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Wowsers. Shocking from a name in our community. Saying that last year i was told about a problem with an engine and prior to that (few years another issue) both were DSM members of a longgg time so knew a good amount. While we dont like to believe it. Its a problem and happens alot and its a problem here in the UK also in the 4G sector where names get big and then pass off bad engines and workmanship. Sucks big time.

Its a shame it made you feel this way and does put you down but as a whole we are here for support and pep you up. Have you considered just using a smaller local shop vs a bigger named shop for the work? Might be more trips or work but maybe the only way.

Sorry to read about this whole process and downhill battle.

 

[1cleangsx]

All good points, I’m sorry for coming off as arrogant, obviously there’s a big difference between the engine Devin runs at the track and the OP’s engine, I genuinely feel bad for the OP, I would also hang it up for a while to get my head straight, maybe comeback after awhile, and tear it down, little by little or completely walk away, I wish him the best from one dsm’er to another

 

[97gsxIA]

there’s gotta be more to the story/engine besides “Devin Shultz screwed me"

If that's all you got from this thread, I'm sorry for you.

I would love to hear that other side of the story too. Maybe some actual empirical evidence that the work said was done. Or something other touting experience and reasons why I should trust them. So far I haven't gotten any, so I have to try and speculate what was done while being told I did something wrong that I've done the same way for 4 engines and FIFTEEN YEARS.

If the engine survived past 40 miles I wouldn't need an engine spec sheet or any evidence of the work done. But it didn't, and I've had to 2nd guess everything concerning the engine and other parts of my car that were running perfectly fine with the previous 6bolt because they can't swallow theirs and agree with me that something is inheritently wrong with this block or crank.

And I haven't even mentioned the other things I've found throughout this process.
How bout a chunk of corroded gunk in my coolant galley the size of my thumbnail completely blocking a port to the head?

I got about 3-4 other things I'm sitting on and haven't shared. If I wanted to sling mud, I'd sling it all. I just want my car to be running again, and to be treated like I'm not some 20 year old idiot who just bought his first dsm.

 

[Anfurnyy]

If that's all you got from this thread, I'm sorry for you.

I would love to hear that other side of the story too. Maybe some actual empirical evidence that the work said was done. Or something other touting experience and reasons why I should trust them. So far I haven't gotten any, so I have to try and speculate what was done while being told I did something wrong that I've done the same way for 4 engines and FIFTEEN YEARS.

If the engine survived past 40 miles I wouldn't need an engine spec sheet or any evidence of the work done. But it didn't, and I've had to 2nd guess everything concerning the engine and other parts of my car that were running perfectly fine with the previous 6bolt because they can't swallow theirs and agree with me that something is inheritently wrong with this block or crank.

And I haven't even mentioned the other things I've found throughout this process.
How bout a chunk of corroded gunk in my coolant galley the size of my thumbnail completely blocking a port to the head?

I got about 3-4 other things I'm sitting on and haven't shared. If I wanted to sling mud, I'd sling it all. I just want my car to be running again, and to be treated like I'm not some 20 year old idiot who just bought his first dsm.

Is there a chance that the thrust surface on the crank is not plum/perpendicular with the centerline of the crank? I don't have any idea how you'd check that, but it sounds like this seems to be some sort of a crank issue. Where the face of the thrust surface is not straight or something and it's eating the thrust bearing as it rotates
I FEEL like I've heard of QC issues with Eagle cranks but I have no first-hand experience.

It sucks you're going through this but I hope you can survive and come out the other side