1G Failed break-in, bearing wear opinions

[97gsxIA]

Long story short, I had a 6bolt shortblock built by one of the bigger names in the DSM community. Who I will leave off this post for now.

First oil change was clean, second was glitter. Crank had walked. End play was .011. Caught it early.

40 miles total. Pulled the engine, contacted the builder and he immediately started questioning my clutch setup. I walked through with him my setup, clutch adjustment measurements (confirming clutch wasn't preloading the crank) Yada Yada Yada. I even bore scoped a video of the mated engine/trans to prove the input shaft sleeve wasn't riding the clutch disk hub, as he also jumped to that conclusion.

I was expecting to see just the thrust surface worn up, but it was the thrust surface AND that entire half of the center main bearing.

Crank journals are spotless.

Curious of others opinions. I'm of the mind of a botched machinist or him not aligning the thrust bearing on assembly. Not to say my heavy pressure plate wasn't contributing... but to do it in 40 miles when I had the same clutch for 6 years on my last one is hard to believe.

Anyone have any thoughts on this wear pattern?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[1cleangsx]

If that's all you got from this thread, I'm sorry for you.

I would love to hear that other side of the story too. Maybe some actual empirical evidence that the work said was done. Or something other touting experience and reasons why I should trust them. So far I haven't gotten any, so I have to try and speculate what was done while being told I did something wrong that I've done the same way for 4 engines and FIFTEEN YEARS.

If the engine survived past 40 miles I wouldn't need an engine spec sheet or any evidence of the work done. But it didn't, and I've had to 2nd guess everything concerning the engine and other parts of my car that were running perfectly fine with the previous 6bolt because they can't swallow theirs and agree with me that something is inheritently wrong with this block or crank.

And I haven't even mentioned the other things I've found throughout this process.
How bout a chunk of corroded gunk in my coolant galley the size of my thumbnail completely blocking a port to the head?

I got about 3-4 other things I'm sitting on and haven't shared. If I wanted to sling mud, I'd sling it all. I just want my car to be running again, and to be treated like I'm not some 20 year old idiot who just bought his first dsm.

Again man I retract that previous statement. I don’t doubt you know what your doing, I think the situation sucks, if had to close my eyes and throw a guess at the wall I would suspect the crank is junk, I mean you personally checked everything out, maybe tear it down, find a new machine shop and a new crank

 

[Ludachris]

Decided not to drive anywhere. Just keep it on the jackstands for another heat cycle and actuate the clutch more while varying rpms.

Glitter again in the oil.
Checked endplay again: .009

That's it for me boys. I got the money to find another engine, just not the will to pursue it.

I've gotten permission from the site leaders here to post the builders name.

The builder of this shortblock is Devin Schultz.

This isn't an accusation, but merely a disclosure of information.
This thread is merely documenting my experience and seeking opinion.

Thanks everyone for chiming in and helping. I never thought that in the 15 years I've been doing this DSM shit, would one experience force me to throw in the towel. But we're knocking on that door now.

Who knows maybe I'll dust it off in a year or two.


I don't have Facebook. I'm just not a huge social media guy.
Sorry to hear about your Cummins. The He351's on them aren't far off from what I ran on this car, a good ol' HX40

Was the same crank from the first failure used in the second rebuild?

 

[97gsxIA]

Was the same crank from the first failure used in the second rebuild?

I was told their machinist took the same Eagle crank that walked the first time, "checked it out," came to the conclusion that the crank had preload on it from an outside force due to the bearing wearing just on the rear side (which I already knew and documented with him and on here) they said they then mangafluxed the crank for cracks and polished it. Then reassembled the engine. That's all I got communicated to me other than "it was determined the failure had nothing to do with the workmanship based on 40 years of combined experience"

The crank had a couple unique marks on it that confirmed it was the same one.

 

[97gsxIA]

If a different shortblock doesn't walk on the same setup there's no longer an argument to be made.

I already know that's the length I'll have to go to in order to prove to Devin or anyone else that there is something inheritently wrong with this block. Which is sad.

 

[97egl]

If a different shortblock doesn't walk on the same setup there's no longer an argument to be made.

I already know that's the length I'll have to go to in order to prove to Devin or anyone else that there is something inheritently wrong with this block. Which is sad.

I'd try a different crank in the same block myself.

Not trying to argue at all but after reading this thread a couple times and following it the crank is stuck in my mind as the most likely culprit. Unless the main cap was switched with one from another block somehow or the passage from the main galley to the center bearing is blocked there isn't a lot that can go wrong with a block. I am assuming the block has been ok prior to this with a used oem crankshaft. Now it's got a new crankshaft and it's walking almost immediately. Just my .02, I certainly could be wrong. Hope this post can be helpful

 

[97gsxIA]

I'd try a different crank in the same block myself.

Not trying to argue at all but after reading this thread a couple times and following it the crank is stuck in my mind as the most likely culprit. Unless the main cap was switched with one from another block somehow or the passage from the main galley to the center bearing is blocked there isn't a lot that can go wrong with a block. I am assuming the block has been ok prior to this with a used oem crankshaft. Now it's got a new crankshaft and it's walking almost immediately. Just my .02, I certainly could be wrong. Hope this post can be helpful

No you're right, it's definitely one or the other. Throwing a different crank in and checking the alignment of the main bores is the only way to go if keeping the block. Just don't have it in me right now to roll the dice a third time.

 

[danl]

No you're right, it's definitely one or the other. Throwing a different crank in and checking the alignment of the main bores is the only way to go if keeping the block. Just don't have it in me right now to roll the dice a third time.

Take a few weeks off and relax. This should be a hobby, not stressful.

When you feel like getting to it, pull the crank and see if a machine shop measure the thrust surface for runout. Do you know if they line honed the mains? Did they use arp fasteners on the mains?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

No you're right, it's definitely one or the other. Throwing a different crank in and checking the alignment of the main bores is the only way to go if keeping the block. Just don't have it in me right now to roll the dice a third time.

I have been in this delima. Take time away from it. Hell, it's been a year and ONE of my 3 DSMs is ready to start, but the injectors need serviced of all things. You get wound up, then let down. It's a horrible cycle but that's what I have done in the past and still HAVE and ENJOY my cars.
Take a break.

 

[DreamChaser7]

So I’m getting to the point where I’m going to have to decide soon whether or not to have someone build my motor or do it myself. Gone back and forth over this throughout the years of reading and trying to learn. Would like to have someone build it for obvious reasons like time and ease. On the other hand would really love the pride of knowing I did it myself 100%, plus the knowledge this would lend. It’s the unknown of stories like this that scare the crap outta me. I’ve waited almost 25 damn years to be able to build this (1st) and almost puke at the thought of ruining it from someone else’s lack of giving a sh&t or me not being experienced with engine building. I understand we cannot control everything and stuff happens. I’m heavily leaning towards building it myself at this point and probably annoying the crap outta you all on the stuff I’m not sure of, hopefully with some helpful responses.
I’m truly sickened this has happened to you Cameron, but honestly hope you decide to tear it down at this point and put your detective hat on. I’ll be along for the ride.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I think I speak for the forum, that we are here to HELP in any way. That is what makes this place so special!

 

[97gsxIA]

Do you know if they line honed the mains? Did they use arp fasteners on the mains?

It has arp mains witha girdle. Was told it didn't pull the mains out enough to require an align hone.

Would like to have someone build it for obvious reasons like time and ease. On the other hand would really love the pride of knowing I did it myself 100%, plus the knowledge this would lend.

I've assembled 3 4G63t's. They all went smoothly and had very little care as to the extent I tried with this one, because this was my 'go-big' block. All 3 lasted years and were a great joy. Ironic that this one with all the care and money i had lasted less than an hour, twice. And sucked me dry to the point of making me want to quit or resurrect an old 'me' that I'm not anymore. I haven't felt this kind of vitriol in years. So you're all right, I need a break. My wife needs one too. I'll get my old bike that got ran over back together and then come back to this when I'm refreshed.

I think I speak for the forum, that we are here to HELP in any way. That is what makes this place so special!

Thanks Marty. And thanks everyone for tagging along through my descent.
I'll be looking for a 6bolt crank in the mean time, so if anyone comes across one that's not already dog shit let me know. I'll get yeah paid for it.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I'll be looking for a 6bolt crank in the mean time, so if anyone comes across one that's not already dog shit let me know. I'll get yeah paid for it.

I know RIX Racing had some standard sized, polished, and balanced OEM 6 bolt cranks for sale back in January listed at $500, not sure if they're available but might be worth reaching out.

 

[curt-s]

So I’m getting to the point where I’m going to have to decide soon whether or not to have someone build my motor or do it myself. Gone back and forth over this throughout the years of reading and trying to learn. Would like to have someone build it for obvious reasons like time and ease. On the other hand would really love the pride of knowing I did it myself 100%, plus the knowledge this would lend. It’s the unknown of stories like this that scare the crap outta me. I’ve waited almost 25 damn years to be able to build this (1st) and almost puke at the thought of ruining it from someone else’s lack of giving a sh&t or me not being experienced with engine building. I understand we cannot control everything and stuff happens. I’m heavily leaning towards building it myself at this point and probably annoying the crap outta you all on the stuff I’m not sure of, hopefully with some helpful responses.
I’m truly sickened this has happened to you Cameron, but honestly hope you decide to tear it down at this point and put your detective hat on. I’ll be along for the ride.

Nobody will care about your stuff as much as you do. I'd like to say take it to a known name as they're most likely to stand behind their work but between this thread and my own experiences, I'm no longer able to rest on that.

 

[Drewpy Dawg]

Take a much needed rest. Take a break from the DSM. Do something else that makes you happy. When you’re ready to tackle this again build it yourself. As Curt said, nobody will care about your stuff as much as you. With some patience and the help here you should be able to build exactly the kind of motor you want. Everything in its time.

 

[racepak]

amazing community

 

[We're on Boost]

Is there a chance that the thrust surface on the crank is not plum/perpendicular with the centerline of the crank? I don't have any idea how you'd check that, but it sounds like this seems to be some sort of a crank issue. Where the face of the thrust surface is not straight or something and it's eating the thrust bearing as it rotates

I imagine (from having been a machinist for a while) that you would turn the crank between centers on a large lathe and have a very accurate dial gauge set up to read the thrust surface. Like this. In this clip he is turning between centers to polish the journals (no dial gauge). At 10:50 you see the thrust surface. I think you would need a better dial gauge than what I have to get a good look at numbers smaller than .001 inch.
Here he shows the measurement/clearance sheets he got from the machine shop.
The guy that owns this car and shot the video is a neighbor of mine. He is not a machinist, or an engineer, or a mechanic, and you can tell. But it looks to me like he has found a good machine shop, and hopefully a good assembler for his RB26 filled with very expensive parts.

 

[97gsxIA]

I know RIX Racing had some standard sized, polished, and balanced OEM 6 bolt cranks for sale back in January listed at $500, not sure if they're available but might be worth reaching out.

All sold out on their site. Thanks for the suggestion though. I'll still send Ricky an email.

 

[TerminalTalon]

Man don’t give up. I understand a shitshow. I understand the “the old me” coming out (lots of just straight do you want me to remind you what your mother ate for dinner on a Tuesday because they raised such a demon type people). I understand the wasted time and back and forth. Mainly just don’t lose site of your passion, take a break and come back refreshed and stronger as a person. Clear your head from the bullshit. We all need it. I have a spare block and crank if it comes down to me not having spares or building an engine straight up to replace the stocker when I get my car running again.

 

[chrisman287]

I'll be looking for a 6bolt crank in the mean time, so if anyone comes across one that's not already dog shit let me know. I'll get yeah paid for it.

I have a stock one that needs to be cut probably. Spun a bearing. You can have it for free just pay shipping it’s boxed up.