Holset Turbos, PART 5

[Steve93Talon]

Well am I the only one? I've run a t31 60-1 with no exhaust with the stock BEP internal gate. No creep. I've run the h1c with no exhaust and a 29mm hole with a 38mm external gate. No creep. . . What am I doing?

This is funny because I remember back in the day DSMers b!tching about not being able to run more than 20-22psi with their rs49s and bep 50-trims and other bep bolton housing turbos. The flapper would blow open and boost would not go over 22psi. I don't know about you but there's no turbo you want to put in the bep housing that you want to be running under 20psi. So if it were creaping to 20 psi then blowing open and not holding more than 22, then these bits of information were never relayed by all those reviews. And again, I've had 2 of these housings with 2 different turbine wheels, both with either stock BEP hole or 29mm hole and have never seen creep. But I have blown open the flapper.

I think the difference here is internal vs external gates. I ran a Tial on the o2, so opening up the port leading to it allows the gate to function effectively. On an internal configuration, you're dealing with a lower spring pressure so porting the passage only puts more exhaust pressure on the flapper to blow it open sooner.

I agree that you shouldn't really be worrying about running less than 20-22psi on a turbo using these housings, but I was trying to dial in a new setup from scratch and it's no fun doing a baseline pull at 14.5psi gate pressure and watching your gauge shoot to 25 in a blink.

This is basically a "your mileage may vary" kinda thing. Wheel size/efficiency, engine VE, gate size/spring pressure, displacement... will all affect how the wastegate operates. I guess the rule of thumb should be external on o2 - port the hole, more cant hurt. Internal gate, start with the standard hole, watch for creep, go from there.

 

[GST95]

ceedawg,
The 18cm housing would probably be perfect on a twin scroll manifold, IMHO. Im running it with a non-divided manifold. Id like it to spool a little sooner. Right now it doesnt have any exhaust, so no wideband to tune with. The boost ramps up quickly when its starting to spool and it passes 20psi around 5k. The 16cm housing ive got has piston chunks in it, but when i heat them up they come off the walls fairly easily. I think the 16cm housing would be a better match with the non-divided manifold i have. Plus when im done ill have an excuse to try out my father in laws fiber optic camera. Id rather find around a 17cm or so t4 housing that will work with it and get the JHRacing manifold like the hx52 guys are gunna use, but i havent found any t4 housings in the teens yet. I havent really seen any divided t3 manifold that id want to spend the money on. A divided t4 manifold has a wider variety of turbos that i could use it with, and would probably have an easier time selling if i changed my mind.

I made this video with my phone when i first got it running with the hx40, but the quality sucked so bad i didnt post it. It takes good pictures, but not video i guess. Just remember its not finished and this was when i fired it up for the first time.
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://s299.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?file=http://vid299.photobucket.com/albums/mm313/boostedts/1107081454.flv"></embed>

BTW, if you ever have to run your turbo with no exhaust be sure to make a heat shield.

 

[GST95]

I should have been more specific I just meant adjusting the arm not putting in a stiffer actuator. I'm not a big internal guy anymore but if your gonna go that route I don't think there's anything wrong with switching actuators but relying on the arms adjustment to regulate boost is a band aid for having the wrong sized wastegate or the wrong spring tension.

I consider an adjustable arm more of a fine tuning type of thing. I dont use it to regulate boost. I have a boost controller for that. Both setups will be more laggy without a controller. I think as long as you arent trying to over compensate and limiting your travel so much that it doesnt open the valve enough to work properly that it is an ok for fine tuning wg pressure. Without it you are stuck with whatever spring you got. At least with an adjustable arm you can get somewhere in between 2 different actuators.

Like i said, externals are a much simpler and easier setup. Need more boost, put in a bigger spring. Need more flow, put in a bigger valve. An internal is more of a pain to do either one.

 

[We're on Boost]

Ya know... I've tried and tried and given up and tried some more and I just can't seem to get this H2E taken apart. I have no idea how to get two of the hotside housing bolts out. I've been able to get the other 4 but the last 2 I can't fit a boxed in wrench on because of the oil/water mount on the center of the turbo.

Hey, how would something like this work? This will grip a bolt head almost as well as a socket or box wrench, and much better than an open end wrench. This was a AN nut crowfoot when I bought it, and I ground the tips back some so I could get 1/6th of a turn at a time without smacking into my downpipe.

Gary

 

[dsm-onster]

. . . Id rather find around a 17cm or so t4 housing that will work with it and get the JHRacing manifold like the hx52 guys are gunna use, but i havent found any t4 housings in the teens yet. I havent really seen any divided t3 manifold that id want to spend the money on. A divided t4 manifold has a wider variety of turbos that i could use it with, and would probably have an easier time selling if i changed my mind. . . .

My wh1c comes with the 19cm^2 turbine housing with a t4 flange. My h1e wheel will fit into an hx40 turbine housing. Some h1es have been knonw not to fit. Most hx40's have a 19cm^2 turbine housing with a t4 flange. These would be the common 58mm inducer 8blade compressor hx40 turbos that have these. You could get a core from goldfarb that has destroyed wheels for a good price jsut to get the housing.

 

[GST95]

My wh1c comes with the 19cm^2 turbine housing with a t4 flange. My h1e wheel will fit into an hx40 turbine housing. Some h1es have been knonw not to fit. Most hx40's have a 19cm^2 turbine housing with a t4 flange. These would be the common 58mm inducer 8blade compressor hx40 turbos that have these. You could get a core from goldfarb that has destroyed wheels for a good price jsut to get the housing.

Did you mean h1e in your first sentence? Goldfarb didnt want to look through what they had for me. I had to send back a turbo to them because it wasnt what they had listed, and im still dealing with that mess. They said they would rather refund my money then look through their boxes of hx40s and h1es. So, ive just been watchin what they post up on ebay, but havent found anything yet. Ive seen one of the 2 with a t4 17cm before. Id rather not have to step up to a t4 19cm unless i have to. I might even be happy with the t3 16cm as a single scroll. That would be the cheaper route right now anyways, since i already have one and i wouldnt need to buy anything to run it. If i can get all the aluminum out of it ill at least try it first, or if i find another one thats good at a decent price id buy that instead.

Anybody have a guess how much it would cost to have my 12cm housing machinged to fit the hx40 turbine? Is it something a normal machine shop could do, or is it a better know what you are doing type of deal. Is it a simple task of just boring out the outlet hole, or is it more involved? Are there any draw backs other then the obvious size difference, like as in wheel placement in the housing itself? I wouldnt think that housing would be too small for flow with the hx40 turbine since it seems to work so well in the .55 BEP. Any opinions?

 

[dsm-onster]

Oops I meant wh1e.

 

[Mike1992]

Should have my new setup running by the weekend.

Mods: Ross/Eagle, Ported Head, BC S&R, BC 280 Cams, SS Valves, OEM HG/ARP Everything, 2g Maf/FP Intake, Twin DGM 1g BOV's, 3" Turbo-Back, Holset HX-40/Bullseye, Hafe Manifold/Tial 38mm, Evo 3 o2, 1000cc Injectors, Walbro 255, Aeromotive Regulator, DSMLink, PLX Wideband, Kinetic Race FMIC, Prothane Motor Mounts, ACT Fly/ACT 2900, Jack's Stage 2 Trans/Welded Center Diff. etc...

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted021.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted023.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted024.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted025.jpg

Just got a few little things left to do. Still need a way to recirc my twin bov's and make a wastegate dumptube, then its off to tuning.

 

[need2boostpsi]

Should have my new setup running by the weekend.

Mods: Ross/Eagle, Ported Head, BC S&R, BC 280 Cams, SS Valves, OEM HG/ARP Everything, 2g Maf/FP Intake, Twin DGM 1g BOV's, 3" Turbo-Back, Holset HX-40/Bullseye, Hafe Manifold/Tial 38mm, Evo 3 o2, 1000cc Injectors, Walbro 255, Aeromotive Regulator, DSMLink, PLX Wideband, Kinetic Race FMIC, Prothane Motor Mounts, ACT Fly/ACT 2900, Jack's Stage 2 Trans/Welded Center Diff. etc...

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted021.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted023.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted024.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Lasercamel/Painted025.jpg

Just got a few little things left to do. Still need a way to recirc my twin bov's and make a wastegate dumptube, then its off to tuning.

setup looks nice, what did you do for a oil return on your turbo?

 

[dsm-onster]

First 10 second holset powered DSM right there. Glad to see you back in the game, Mike!

 

[Aaron91RS]

He is in the 10's with one or you are just speculating?

Anyway here's some comparison pics I had of what is now my super hx40 vs some other stuff.

Just got to get a ton of little stuff worked out. But it's sleet and snow everyday right now so it's taking awhile.

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2.3L

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what did you do for a oil return on your turbo?

Mine just has rubber hose clamping each end of a cut stock return piece together.

 

[dsm-onster]

Very clean setup^^^

He is in the 10's with one or you are just speculating?

He did 11.2 @ 126 mph with less cam, a bolton hx35, and a 1.9 60ft. Now he will have an hx40pro, more cam with a better flowing head, better traction, and a transmission that likes to shift at redline. . . . He posted in the holset results only thread. Yes. It's just speculation . I'll retract and say that he has all the upgrades to his old setup to shave several tenths off his last best time.

 

[Wicked95AWD]

First 10 second holset powered DSM right there. Glad to see you back in the game, Mike!

Badman21's setup should get him deep into the 10's with over 630whp. Did he ever take that thing to the track? Also, does anyone know what head modifications/cams he was using when he made those power numbers?

 

[JWoodley]

Badman21's setup should get him deep into the 10's with over 630whp. Did he ever take that thing to the track? Also, does anyone know what head modifications/cams he was using when he made those power numbers?

He was running 272s. I hope to shatter 650hp before the New Year or shortly there after. Then I'm going to toy with some e85 for daily duties.

Important pieces:
Built 2.2L long rod
FP4rs/Kiggly Springs
HX40 Pro in BEP .55AR housing
Dual Walbro 255HPs
a seatbelt

 

[need2boostpsi]

He was running 272s. I hope to shatter 650hp before the New Year or shortly there after. Then I'm going to toy with some e85 for daily duties.

Important pieces:
Built 2.2L long rod
FP4rs/Kiggly Springs
HX40 Pro in BEP .55AR housing
Dual Walbro 255HPs
a seatbelt

that last one is a very important supporting mod for life!

 

[Slippi84]

He was running 272s. I hope to shatter 650hp before the New Year or shortly there after. Then I'm going to toy with some e85 for daily duties.

Important pieces:
Built 2.2L long rod
FP4rs/Kiggly Springs
HX40 Pro in BEP .55AR housing
Dual Walbro 255HPs
a seatbelt

I see i'm not the only one whose on the 2.2 build bandwagon. I think as parts become cheaper this will be the most popular build in the future. revs plus more displacmenet can't beat it.

 

[JWoodley]

I see i'm not the only one whose on the 2.2 build bandwagon. I think as parts become cheaper this will be the most popular build in the future. revs plus more displacmenet can't beat it.

I've had mine on the engine stand for a solid month. It's killing me. Magnus is being ### and sold me a swap harness, supposedly overnighted it, nows its somehow on back order.

BTW, if you get the 6 bolt 156mm Manleys from SBR, they'll fail to tell you the small end is fitted for 2G sized wrist pins. So don't order the wrong pistons. Plus if you pay to have them next day'd on Monday, you'll get them Friday afternoon. Won't do business with them EVER again. x2

 

[Slippi84]

I've had mine on the engine stand for a solid month. It's killing me. Magnus is being ### and sold me a swap harness, supposedly overnighted it, nows its somehow on back order.

BTW, if you get the 6 bolt 156mm Manleys from SBR, they'll fail to tell you the small end is fitted for 2G sized wrist pins. So don't order the wrong pistons. Plus if you pay to have them next day'd on Monday, you'll get them Friday afternoon. Won't do business with them EVER again. x2

I'm not gonna go into detail or roast them on here but your not the only one with problems but that's another story. Def post up pics when you get her together and which brnads and sizes you went with like block piston rod crank ect.

 

[JWoodley]

I'm not gonna go into detail or roast them on here but your not the only one with problems but that's another story. Def post up pics when you get her together and which brnads and sizes you went with like block piston rod crank ect.

2.0 block, 88mm OEM uncut crank, 6 bolt 156mm Manley Ibeam rods, 6bolt 2G Ross stroker pistons.

I will roast them on here and everywhere else I get a chance after the lies and piss poor customer service they gave me.

 

[need2boostpsi]

just wanted to post up a picture of my installed HX-35, i had to clock it till about 5:30 to fit the drain line in, also the extreme psi return line kit puts the drain way to low, had to clamp a hose from my extreme kit to a fitting at the bottum of the turbo.

 

[need2boostpsi]

haha its actually a vacuum cleaner Hose, i had an old one hanging around and it was the perfect size!

 

[Mike1992]

setup looks nice, what did you do for a oil return on your turbo?

Thanks, I used bolt on -10an fitting's on the pan/turbo, then a 2-45 degree fittings with rubber hose clamped in between. Clearance is VERY tight around the front motor mount bracket, but I managed without any trimming. I can take pics of my drain setup if you wish, just ask.

He did 11.2 @ 126 mph with less cam, a bolton hx35, and a 1.9 60ft. Now he will have an hx40pro, more cam with a better flowing head, better traction, and a transmission that likes to shift at redline. . . . He posted in the holset results only thread. Yes. It's just speculation . I'll retract and say that he has all the upgrades to his old setup to shave several tenths off his last best time.

I'm really shooting for a 10.5@135+ next spring. I managed some decent times out of the old HX-35 car with alot of stock parts/mid level performance parts. I built this new car with the intensions of dragging it quite often with an even higher then 8k redline. Only real thing I want/need from here is a SMIM and then I'll have no doubt's on hitting my goal. I may even toss a set of drag radials on it if I'm feeling really frisky, but who knows. I'll have track results and dyno number in the spring fella's

By the way, I started it up for the first time in 6 months today~!

 

[need2boostpsi]

Thanks, I used bolt on -10an fitting's on the pan/turbo, then a 2-45 degree fittings with rubber hose clamped in between. Clearance is VERY tight around the front motor mount bracket, but I managed without any trimming. I can take pics of my drain setup if you wish, just ask.




I'm really shooting for a 10.5@135+ next spring. I managed some decent times out of the old HX-35 car with alot of stock parts/mid level performance parts. I built this new car with the intensions of dragging it quite often with an even higher then 8k redline. Only real thing I want/need from here is a SMIM and then I'll have no doubt's on hitting my goal. I may even toss a set of drag radials on it if I'm feeling really frisky, but who knows. I'll have track results and dyno number in the spring fella's

By the way, I started it up for the first time in 6 months today~!

pics would be great, i'm just not satisfied with my oil drain setup.

 

[Slippi84]

2.0 block, 88mm OEM uncut crank, 6 bolt 156mm Manley Ibeam rods, 6bolt 2G Ross stroker pistons.

I will roast them on here and everywhere else I get a chance after the lies and piss poor customer service they gave me.

That's not a 2.2 build though you would need a 10mm crank and to go like .060 over with a 2.0 block

 

[turbodsm18]

Thanks, I used bolt on -10an fitting's on the pan/turbo, then a 2-45 degree fittings with rubber hose clamped in between. Clearance is VERY tight around the front motor mount bracket, but I managed without any trimming. I can take pics of my drain setup if you wish, just ask.




I'm really shooting for a 10.5@135+ next spring. I managed some decent times out of the old HX-35 car with alot of stock parts/mid level performance parts. I built this new car with the intensions of dragging it quite often with an even higher then 8k redline. Only real thing I want/need from here is a SMIM and then I'll have no doubt's on hitting my goal. I may even toss a set of drag radials on it if I'm feeling really frisky, but who knows. I'll have track results and dyno number in the spring fella's

By the way, I started it up for the first time in 6 months today~!

Mike, Im gonna stop by sometime this weekend and take a look......You should have absolutely no problems dipping into the 10's.....

Oh and look out for a fwd with a 7 blade hx40 to hit 11's in the spring also......

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-Kevin-