Holset Turbos, PART 3

[TimG]

Or maybe you could leave the pictures up for reference purposes since this is the Holset thread. But I'm sure you know best. Being as Matt is part of the Holset Mafia, if he felt it needed to be removed and/or edited he would've done so. Go flex your nuts elsewhere.

I never understood why members get upset when their flagrant rule breaking is corrected by a moderator.

On a side note, this winter I bought an HX-40 compressor wheel and compressor housing from htturbo.com to put onto my HX-35. I'll do this once I dial in my HX-35 with a proper transmission and intake manifold. I'm aiming for 11.5 in the 1/4 with the HX-35 and a 10 second pass with the HX-40 installed and dialed in. I want to get it done mid-season sometime.

 

[dsm-onster]

Good to hear Tim!!!! I'm actually excited FOR you. I think you can absolutel eclipse your goals. Besides, this should be a perfect comparison of these two turbos. And it should really help everyone decide what turbo they will need for their goal. This is what holset turbos need. . . proof and comparison results.

Or maybe you could leave the pictures up for reference purposes since this is the Holset thread. But I'm sure you know best. Being as Matt is part of the Holset Mafia, if he felt it needed to be removed and/or edited he would've done so. Go flex your nuts elsewhere.

Anyways, played around with the MAFT and DSMLink today. Still not sure I have the translator set right. Got the WB02 installed gonna try to dial the MAF in Monday and get some numbers.

Holy Crap! Buddy, please simmer down. Yo were wrong. . . An perhaps I was too. For not calling you on the carpet (all I could even do). I'm not a moderator. I can't delete any posts (red and green are different colors). I just tried to go with what you said and hopefully when the time came, 'a word to the wise' would be sufficient. . . Yea, I frequent this thread. I just know a little about Holsets so I stay tuned to this thread. I LOVE what my h1c has done and I HOPE youll see that abiding by the rules will allow you to contribute AND learn. Don't kick your own nuts into your sphincter by pitching a fit with a green name. They are there for YOU and me. To keep safe the positive and helpful directing culture this site has. Which obviously you enjoy, and have learned from. You're a GOOD GUY. But this is a BAD ATTITUDE!!!!

Hopefully, the rest of the guys who havn't offended you can get a little insite or info from your results. But, youll probably lose some privilages here.

 

[JWoodley]

Yea, everyone has a bad day every now and then. Finals got the best of me. So now I get the nice little red text under my info on the left. Oh well. Live and learn. I still stick with the fact that the pictures should have been left for reference purposes. It would've been just as easy to remove the for sale text as it would've been the pictures themselves.

FWIW, I should be able to get some video of my dyno and ofcourse the dyno sheet as well.

 

[dsm-onster]

FWIW, I should be able to get some video of my dyno and ofcourse the dyno sheet as well.

AWESOME!!!

 

[GORBS88]

Well the results are in..!!!!

Mods are up to date in my profile, so the spool times with the hx-40 in the Bullseye .70 a/r T3 housing are 20psi in 4th gear at 4400-4500 RPM.(stock tach)This is done on stock intake and 272 cams.
I had the same turbo before but in the bolt on housing and it was 20psi in 4th at 4000RPM. So anyone looking into a holset can compare these two so they know which route they want to go. I didnt do any hard pulls yet i am still taking it easy making sure everything is good before i bag on it.

 

[JWoodley]

So a 400 RPM difference...hmm. Do you have logs that we can compare back to back? How much did you gain up top? Noticeable even without romping on it?

 

[dsm-onster]

Wow! this is the 6, 7, or 8 blade compressor?

Definately post a log!

 

[GORBS88]

I am going out for a drive alittle later tonight so i will advise on the (outta) boost response to see if there was much bottom end lost.
Sorry i dont have a logger so i cant do much there, DSM link is the next thing on my list!! Right now i am just tuning with tuner pro and the ostrich, and for knock and timing i just watch them real time with a KNOCK BOX.

Oh and this is on the 6 BLADE compressor.

 

[JWoodley]

6 blade FTW!

 

[420a-t]

My buddy dyno'ed is car yesterday. 1g fwd, bolt on mitsu hx-35, hks 272's, AEM EMS, ait/water intercooler with ice box, 3" piping, (I think) 75mm tb. He made 415whp on 22psi and 6 degrees of spark timing advance.

He now has a direct-port Nitrous Express kit he's going to use now. 100 shot. I'll keep you updated.

 

[Mr Peepers]

I'd love to see that graph!

My buddy just recently go ahold of an hx35; everything I say about them finally sunk in Now I can't find a BEP turbine housing for the life of me, let alone an internally gated one. He doesn't want to sink the money for the new SS version. I never understood the switch; IMO it's a budget based turbo.

 

[dsm-onster]

If you beg BEP maybe they'll sell you one. . . Just keep looking around. But, the SS version isn't THAT much more, though. It's a $50 difference vs. the old nonstainless. He can save the $50 for the internal gate and spend the money for an ebay tubular o2 housing and cut/weld it for an ebay external wg like I did. He'll endup spending about $100 MORE (my wastegate, flanges, and o2 housing is about $150) but he'll have much better boost control. And I'm sure you could modify the o2 housing just fine . I wish I had the money for a SS version. Mine looks kind of nasty. And after a paint job, I wanted to enter this car into a local car show this year. I'll have to sand blast it.

Tell him this:

$270(bep housing) + $300(hx35) = $570(new evo3 16g)

You'll need the oil lines. You'll have to fab up a bracket for whatever wastegate actuator he has. That's it! NO water lines. And everyone upgrades intercooler piping with an evo3 16g size turbo. Also, everyone SHOULD upgrade the intake pipe at that level, too. The holset will be used but it will be oem reliable, spool as fast as an evo3 16g, and flows 52 lbs/min. The cost of the oil lines and time fabing up the WGA bracket is a good "bang for your buck" to gain the difference in flow, about 10 lbs/min !


Josh, Why so little timing?!

 

[andy4g63]

Well the results are in..!!!!

Mods are up to date in my profile, so the spool times with the hx-40 in the Bullseye .70 a/r T3 housing are 20psi in 4th gear at 4400-4500 RPM.(stock tach)This is done on stock intake and 272 cams.
I had the same turbo before but in the bolt on housing and it was 20psi in 4th at 4000RPM. So anyone looking into a holset can compare these two so they know which route they want to go. I didnt do any hard pulls yet i am still taking it easy making sure everything is good before i bag on it.

My results are almost identical to yours with the only difference being that I have 280's and JMF intake manifold. According to my log I have 20psi at 4520rpm. It pulls extremely hard, but the feeling is different than bolt on housing. The power feels more linear and steady. Boost never falls off. I couldn't do 4 gear redline pull it was 2-3-4 gears pull and 2 and 3 gears to the redline/8250RPM, 4 gear right around 6800 RPM. I could use easily another 500 RPM on top of what I have now, but there is no reason to do it.
Shifting 2-3 RPM's drop from 8250/2 gear / to 5300 in 3 gear. At these RPM in third i have a full boost. Then shifting 3-4, RPM's drop to 5875 RPM in fourth, still full boost. I have to do a little more tuning though. My timing is very conservative and AFR are in 11.0-11.4 range, droping a little up top after 8000RPM to about 10.7-10.9 . Plus I have to play with the WG. Thinking of hooking up the port on the top too.

 

[JWoodley]

This makes me want to hurry up and get my bottom end done...

 

[andy4g63]

This makes me want to hurry up and get my bottom end done...

Just take your time and make it as strong as you can, you 'll need it later.

 

[JWoodley]

Just take your time and make it as strong as you can, you 'll need it later.

Yea, by hurry up I meant start.

 

[dsm-onster]

I never would have thought that the .70 a/ bep housing would spool that fast with the hx40 turbine wheel! I think us h1e/hx40 users have a couple of great options now:

1. H1E/HX40 in the small stainless BEP housing with the small 8-blade wheel. The small bep housing and hx40turbine wheel seem to be all the flow neccesary for a 58mm inducer (8-blade) that flows 55ish lbs/min. The 8-blade turbos are VERY easy to get. And are cheap.
2. H1E/HX40 in the small stainless BEP housing with a larger 7/6-blade wheel. Probably a good compromise. More topend then an 8-blade h1e/hx40 but with spool speed close to the above.
3. H1E/HX40 in the large BEP (.70 a/r) housing. A 'max effort' turbo that will bolt on to any t3 exhaust manifold. Vband exhaust. A small 8-blade probably doesn't merit the slower spool. As a quicker spooling hotside can be used and still be enough flow to max out that compressor. The 6/7-blade however could possibly go to their flow limit of 60+ lb/min.
4. H1E/HX40 in the stock holset housing. Most seam to be the 18cm^2 housing. Likely requires a divided runner t4 exhaust mani to get decent spool speeds. Spending your money on an expensive exhaust manifold like that, instead of a cheaper manifold and adding the cost of a BEP housing, MAY yield similar spool and flow to the bep .70 a/r h1c/hx40. Questions about this setup. . . Would this flow more/less than the .70 a/r BEP with a t3 manifold? If it flows less, is the spool speed quicker than the bep .55 housing? Does it flow more than a bolt-on bep .55 a/r housing setup?

 

[andy4g63]

My info is very accurate. All the parameters I posted are according to my log from AEM.
On the other hand, as Matt mentioned earlier my turbo is H1E/I guess/, but with 8 blade/60 mm inducer.My timing under boost is 12-13*'s . I thought I had a 5* advance on CAS, so that would equal 17-18*, but now I am not so sure,cause I remember my friend who tuned the car initially said that he zeroed CAS and that's how is programmed into AEM. So I will check my timing by the end of the week I guess and either turn it up or turn the boost up. Plus keep in mind if you have your Boost Controller set at 26 PSI or even more, you will see 20 psi a lot earlier.

 

[ceedawg]

4. H1E/HX40 in the stock holset housing. Most seam to be the 18cm^2 housing. Likely requires a divided runner t4 exhaust mani to get decent spool speeds. Spending your money on an expensive exhaust manifold like that, instead of a cheaper manifold and adding the cost of a BEP housing, MAY yield similar spool and flow to the bep .70 a/r h1c/hx40. Questions about this setup. . . Would this flow more/less than the .70 a/r BEP with a t3 manifold? If it flows less, is the spool speed quicker than the bep .55 housing? Does it flow more than a bolt-on bep .55 a/r housing setup?

Good questions!

I know there is a guy with a 1.8 vtec using the HX40 with the T3 mani and 16cm^2 hsing who ran 11.00 at 134mph with a non twin scroll mani. Made full boost at 5k.That's all I need to know! I know it's a honda but for this big turbine hsing(18m^2) I think I'll use a TS mani. If I use my 14cm or a 16 cm hsing I may have to just use a cheaper reg aftermarket exh mani if my turbonetics mani makes the hx30 hit the waterpipe.

I will go T3 divided mani and the 18cm hsing. I plan on purchasing a 16cm holset divided hsing as well.

 

[Mr Peepers]

If you beg BEP maybe they'll sell you one. . . Just keep looking around. But, the SS version isn't THAT much more, though. It's a $50 difference vs. the old nonstainless. He can save the $50 for the internal gate and spend the money for an ebay tubular o2 housing and cut/weld it for an ebay external wg like I did. He'll endup spending about $100 MORE (my wastegate, flanges, and o2 housing is about $150) but he'll have much better boost control. And I'm sure you could modify the o2 housing just fine . I wish I had the money for a SS version. Mine looks kind of nasty. And after a paint job, I wanted to enter this car into a local car show this year. I'll have to sand blast it.

Tell him this:

$270(bep housing) + $300(hx35) = $570(new evo3 16g)

You'll need the oil lines. You'll have to fab up a bracket for whatever wastegate actuator he has. That's it! NO water lines. And everyone upgrades intercooler piping with an evo3 16g size turbo. Also, everyone SHOULD upgrade the intake pipe at that level, too. The holset will be used but it will be oem reliable, spool as fast as an evo3 16g, and flows 52 lbs/min. The cost of the oil lines and time fabing up the WGA bracket is a good "bang for your buck" to gain the difference in flow, about 10 lbs/min !


Josh, Why so little timing?!

I forgot to add *used* BEP turbine housing in there Functionality>looks.

I'd like to fab up a manifold(love to actually) for the stock WG'ed TS housing but I don't have the time or resources at the moment(an hour drive there and it has to fit both our schedules). A fabbed o2 housing I could do, but I think I could eek a good bit out of the internal gate to suite what he wants from it and be overall cheaper.

 

[selmerguy]

I plan on using my current undivided mani with the stock housing on my H1C. I will fab up the vband downpipe with a new flange on the stock housing. I hope by doing this, I can just swap a t3 .70 ar housing with minimal modifications to the setup.

 

[dylan702110988]

i have a couple questions about the turbos.... (i searched!)

i have a e316g on my car right now....i want to upgrade sometime in late summer...

but

1. my car is automatic FWD , i was told that it would have a hard time spooling it?

2. i plan on getting ecu+ in a couple weeks...it can support a max of 750cc injectors...will this be enough to support this turbo? or will i need bigger injectors?

 

[420a-t]

Josh, Why so little timing?!

i'm not sure to be honest. Does AEM measure timing differently than dsmlink? I asked the same thing and he sid" because anything more and I'll get knock" This was on c-16 race gas too.

 

[420a-t]

dylan1576543546546546876546544654654:

I have an awd auto right now. When I had my evo3, it was sooooo nice. That turbo is one of the easiest turbo's to go fast on. I loved it. with my h1e, you can't spool it up without an aftermarket converter (or nitrous). I tried. The furthest i got it was 2000rpm. I put in a built auto tranny last week, and hopefully have it finished today with a 3800rpm stall converter. I'll let you know how it goes.

One advantage (and I'm sure you already know) is the extra lag from the turbo could possibly help with your launch and 60'.

I have 660cc injectors and meth injection. On 20psi I saw a whopping 58% idc. There's some first-hand experience for ya.

 

[dsm-onster]

i have a couple questions about the turbos.... (i searched!)

i have a e316g on my car right now....i want to upgrade sometime in late summer...

but

1. my car is automatic FWD , i was told that it would have a hard time spooling it?

2. i plan on getting ecu+ in a couple weeks...it can support a max of 750cc injectors...will this be enough to support this turbo? or will i need bigger injectors?

My h1c in a the small bep housing spools within a couple hundred rpms of my SMALL 16g with an evo3 exhaust mani, fp2x cams, stock intake manifold, ebay fmic with 2.5 inch piping, and 3 inch exhaust piping.

The small 16g is the RAVED and optimal turbo for the automatic and stock stall. So I'm not sure you'll lose any spool and launching capabilities vs. a larger evo3 16g if you go an h1c/hx35 in a small bep housing route.

420a-t has a h1e. The h1C or hx35 is as fast a spool as an automatic needs in my book. I reach full boost nearly the same as the small 16g. And the h1c/hx35 compressor flows 7-10 lbs/min more than an evo3 16g compressor. And the turbine is worlds larger than the 16g turbine.

i'm not sure to be honest. Does AEM measure timing differently than dsmlink? I asked the same thing and he sid" because anything more and I'll get knock" This was on c-16 race gas too.

He's likely running higher compression. Is he?