Holset Turbos, PART 2

[Coup D E'Tat]

Will be interesting to see just how far the Bullseye housing will take that turbo, as quick spool and total power have historically been inversely related

I highly doubt anyone will see big numbers without really pushing it. The exhaust housing is just too small to breathe well up top.

 

[sweet97]

Horsepower calculator: http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

Buschur hasn't built Shep's engines for like 5 years.

Dre did 500 whp on pump on a custom 50 trim, it's not easy but certainly can be done.

Thanks for the HP link. Buschur built Shep's last motor. There is a thread on the Buschur forum. I'll find the numbers. mark

 

[DSM90AWD]

would the hx40 work fine if i used my RNR t3 manifold and made a o2 housing for the turbine housing that came with it? i have a 2.4 with tons of mods, plenty of fuel, and big fmic

I've heard of people using a T4 flange for the HX40 housing (T3 for the HX35), but remember, that exhaust housing is designed for 5.9L+ Diesel engines (14cm-18cm duel inlet) so even with a 2.4L, probably a very laggy setup

 

[boostmaniac]

I dont have time to go through all of the posts and dont remember but how many ppl are actually using a equal length manifold with these turbos?

 

[nanokpsi]

I've heard of people using a T4 flange for the HX40 housing (T3 for the HX35), but remember, that exhaust housing is designed for 5.9L+ Diesel engines (14cm-18cm duel inlet) so even with a 2.4L, probably a very laggy setup

They also spool instaneously on those 5.9l motors. I think it would be a better shot than running a turbo that big on a bolt on housing. The hx40 has more fl0w potential than a 35r, but you are trying to run it in a turbine housing that doesn't even flow as well as a .63 garrett.

 

[93AWDTalon1]

the stockish turbine housings don't lag as bad as you think my friend has a 60mm hx35/40 hybrid with the stock 12cm on his XR4TI and it hits 22psi by 4200ish with his ford 2.3L engine

 

[IPT]

I highly doubt anyone will see big numbers without really pushing it. The exhaust housing is just too small to breathe well up top.

I have seen a GT35R with the Bullseyepower housing put down 647 whp. That IMHO is enough flow for most people.

 

[sweet97]

I dont have time to go through all of the posts and dont remember but how many ppl are actually using a equal length manifold with these turbos?

I'm running a DNP manifold, I believe it's equal lenngth. Mark

 

[boostmaniac]

What kind of power do you think your getting?

correct me if I'm wrong but you said your making around 5-550?

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

I have seen a GT35R with the Bullseyepower housing put down 647 whp. That IMHO is enough flow for most people.

And I know people who have pick up ~80whp from switching from a Bullseye to a 5-bolt, .63 T3 housing.

Power can be made on anything. I'm simply talking about the ease of getting that power.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I have seen a GT35R with the Bullseyepower housing put down 647 whp. That IMHO is enough flow for most people.

Nice but we're talking about Holsets here. I also don't see the 68mm GT35 Exhaust housing listed on Bullseye's Site. Are you sure he's not using the PTE Housing, and how much of that 647whp was N2O induced

 

[sweet97]

What kind of power do you think your getting?

correct me if I'm wrong but you said your making around 5-550?

I've not been on a dyno yet but the HP calculator Steve gave says 516crank and 438HP at the wheels assuming an 18% loss. I have yet to install the JM SMIM I have. That should add 25-40HP. That 516/438 is on 93 octane pump gas. Mark

 

[sweet97]

Dave from Bullseye power posted a dyno graph of an HX-40 user with the bullseye turbine putting down 549HP at the wheels at just 20psi. I believe it's in part 1 of the Holset turbo thread. Mark

 

[nanokpsi]

I've not been on a dyno yet but the HP calculator Steve gave says 516crank and 438HP at the wheels assuming an 18% loss. I have yet to install the JM SMIM I have. That should add 25-40HP. That 516/438 is on 93 octane pump gas. Mark

If you were indeed making 438whp, you should have traps in excess of 120mph.

IIRC nitrous was also used on the car that made 549 @ 20 psi.

People need to understand that the turbo is just there to meet the flow demand. There will be very little difference in power output between any of the big compressors in the bullseye housings.

 

[sweet97]

The car's weight with me in it was 3500lbs. and plugging that and 117 mph into the formula said 438whp. I am not in any awhp contest nor even a 1/4 mile contest. I build my cars to MY liking and I like the Holset and the Bullseye turbine. My tuning is with a MAFT for goodness sake! Mark
PS: What is a description of compressor stall? What would it feel like? What is it's cause? Sorry to ask these here but they may be pertinent info for the Holset.

 

[DSM90AWD]

PS: What is a description of compressor stall? What would it feel like? What is it's cause?

Stall => surge
Stall1 Stall2

Are you seeing it during spoolup?

 

[boostmaniac]

Not trying to hate on anything but reading that stall 2 page it says that a M1A1's engine weighs 3-500lbs!! Wow I've changed out plenty of these and I only wish that they were that light. The tranny(being 75% of the weight) and the engine together weigh in at 9000lbs.
And its 1500hp still a crapload but....

 

[sweet97]

Stall => surge
Stall1 Stall2

Are you seeing it during spoolup?

YES! During spool at WOT, high boost levels(25+) and at higher rpm's(usually 6500+rpm's). Never in first or second gears but 3rd and 4th. One quick "buck" like fuel cut, a little milder, but my dsmchip has fuel cut removed.
I was thinking it was a lack of fuel volume so I am upgrading the filter to rail line first. Sounds like the description under surge 1, under load with elevated boost levels. Solution? I have an HX-35/40. Thanks, mark
PS: I have the stock 1G intake but have a JM SMIM to be installed over winter as the car is now in storage. I thought perhaps the stock intake was a restriction. Would a stiffer actuator spring help? Sounds like the internal wastegate could be forced open quickly causing this "buck" from the description under surge 1.
More thought has even strengthened my thinking that the actuator/wastegate are the root of the problem. There is little to no preload on the actuator arm due to the fact that the turnbuckle is all the way threaded on and it's not possible to have much if any preload. I may have to try another turnbuckle but where are these available?
I believe I have something to try now! Thanks for those links, especially link 1. Mark

 

[Steve93Talon]

Did you do the FP2s yet? I'd do them before the SMIM. I'd also lose the internal gate and go external, it just seems that everyone with a big turbo/internal setup has issues. The last issue which could be causing your problems is tuning - or lack thereof. You're stuck with a chip with fixed settings. You could be getting too much/little fuel and/or timing at certain RPM/load points. You really need to consider buying a DSMlink before spending more money on things like the SMIM and cams. Don't forget, Carl went 125mph full weight on stock intake and cams.

Also, how'd you come up with 3500lbs? My '93 with leather, ABS, both bumpers, and AC weighed 3308 with me in it - with a FMIC, 50 trim, external gate, full 3", and a stereo system. I can't imagine a 1G being much heavier unless it's an auto!

 

[sweet97]

I've already got HKS 272's in it. The SMIM is in a spare room. Yeah I need to consider DSMlink. I need to do some research. Computer iliterate and a bit phobic when it comes to them!
This "buck" happened one time when I watched everything at 91% duty cycle on the inj's with an A/F on the wideband of 11.x:1. Everything tuning wise looked good. I am currently having the filter to rail fuel line upgraded though it's probably just the banjo bolt that is the restriction. I could be running short of fuel for a split second. Also the actuator has little to no preload on it. Upon reading the link above on surge 1 or stall 1 I realized it was describing my issue.
Do you know what rpm Carl is crossing the traps at? I'm at 6500rpm's in 4th. Also do these AWD's havw 3.54 gears? Mark

 

[DSM90AWD]

Also do these AWD's havw 3.54 gears? Mark

Yes
I'd also strongly recommend going with an external wastegate. Seems you've been fighting surge/stall for some time and have yet to go this route. You can even re-route the dump to your current downpipe to keep things quiet

 

[sweet97]

Yes
I'd also strongly recommend going with an external wastegate. Seems you've been fighting surge/stall for some time and have yet to go this route. You can even re-route the dump to your current downpipe to keep things quiet

TIAL BOV took care of the surge. I have a DNP manifold so I would need an o2 housing with external. Fuel line is in the works and an actuator mod or different actuator is simple. Then if not fixed i'll have to look into the external. Thanks for the info, very good. Mark

 

[joeracer321]

YES! During spool at WOT, high boost levels(25+) and at higher rpm's(usually 6500+rpm's). Never in first or second gears but 3rd and 4th. One quick "buck" like fuel cut, a little milder, but my dsmchip has fuel cut removed.
I was thinking it was a lack of fuel volume so I am upgrading the filter to rail line first. Sounds like the description under surge 1, under load with elevated boost levels. Solution? I have an HX-35/40. Thanks, mark
PS: I have the stock 1G intake but have a JM SMIM to be installed over winter as the car is now in storage. I thought perhaps the stock intake was a restriction. Would a stiffer actuator spring help? Sounds like the internal wastegate could be forced open quickly causing this "buck" from the description under surge 1.
More thought has even strengthened my thinking that the actuator/wastegate are the root of the problem. There is little to no preload on the actuator arm due to the fact that the turnbuckle is all the way threaded on and it's not possible to have much if any preload. I may have to try another turnbuckle but where are these available?
I believe I have something to try now! Thanks for those links, especially link 1. Mark

Mark, I would have to guess that the small intercooler piping might be an issue but most likely you still have a slew of problems based on what we have spoken about in the past. Our set ups though similar though may be making the difference on why you are having issues. Are you sure it is not fuel cut? Look at the Hz signal your MAF is putting out when it occurs. It is very difficult to diagnose these types of problems through email and over the telephone if they are not common occurrences. I think that it also could be a problem with your fuel delivery. Over the winter, get the fuel line switched out, a good engine management and tune then get yourself a decent intercooler and piping kit and see if that works. Your engine management is probably the big issue; it is just too hard to say at this point. So my recommendation still stands to upgrade the fuel delivery, good intercooler, and a good engine management. And once all of that is straightened out we can better diagnose your issues, because I still feel like you do not have a good combination for the kind of power you are trying to make.

 

[sweet97]

1. My DSMchip has had fuel cut removed.
2. I have been told that the Spearco 2-221 is a very good FMIC by Turbonetics who owns Spearco. They actually chewed me out and turned down a potential sale for wanting to change it! Many other DSM owners have said the same thing including Nate from DSMchips, good IC.
3. The Scanmaster shows airflow in Hz. I max it out at 3216Hz which I have been told is about 50lbs./min.
My winter plans are for upgrading the lower IC piping which is a bit small. I already have a JM SMIM so I see no harm in putting it on, is there?
4. Lastly I was hoping someone of the several thousand members would have had the same isue. I also belong to the Buschur forums. The problem is boost/rpm related. Since my car is in storage I am simply trying to gain info with searches and some posts. I have 5 months until I can drive the car again. Thanks for the suggestions. Mark

 

[Ludachris]

Again, so many numbers are being thrown around here in this thread. Let's make sure the people putting down those numbers are posting them in their profile along with links to timeslips and dyno sheets so they'll show up on our 1/4 Mile Times list and Dyno list. Then we can see how they stack up. Those lists make easy reference points for people to see what turbos are doing what. Trying to go through threads like this to pull out numbers is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

If you have one of these turbos, post your timeslip and dyno info in your profile so we can get a better idea of what these turbos are capable of please.