Holset Turbos, PART 2

[sweet97]

Does anybody know where a good place to find these HX35 or 40 are? Also, who sells the hybrid 35/40? I've read through both forums but I can't seem to find anyplace other than bullseye that carries them. I've tried ebay, nothing there really.

Also, is there a turbine housing for the HY35 from bullseye yet?

Bullseye sells the hybrid HX-35/40 even though it's not listed they can get it. I have one. Problem is that it costs more than a straight HX-40 so guys go that way. Read back a few posts for info on the Hy trubo's. Mark

 

[96whgsx]

Bullseye sells the hybrid HX-35/40 even though it's not listed they can get it. I have one. Problem is that it costs more than a straight HX-40 so guys go that way. Read back a few posts for info on the Hy trubo's. Mark

Cool, thanks. Sometimes I overlook things. I did read all of 20 something pages, so my mind was pretty numb.

 

[96whgsx]

Got a couple of questions. First, I have a 14b oil feed from the filter housing (the ss ones), so would that fit onto the oil feed on the holset hx-35? Also, I already saw the pic of the guy's setup using the stock holset actuator but is there anybody else who had used it?

 

[aero_sallee]

Got a couple of questions. First, I have a 14b oil feed from the filter housing (the ss ones), so would that fit onto the oil feed on the holset hx-35? Also, I already saw the pic of the guy's setup using the stock holset actuator but is there anybody else who had used it?

Not sure about the feed line, I used a custom one. You probably wouldn't want to use the holset one. I tested the one that came with my Hx-40 it didn't start moving till 30+ PSI. I used the one from my 16g. I can take more pictures if you are interested.

 

[Steve93Talon]

You can use the same feed line, just have to change the fitting at the end.

 

[96whgsx]

Not sure about the feed line, I used a custom one. You probably wouldn't want to use the holset one. I tested the one that came with my Hx-40 it didn't start moving till 30+ PSI. I used the one from my 16g. I can take more pictures if you are interested.

Pics would be great. How well does it hold the flapper shut? I'm somewhat worried about the flapper blowing open. Thanks.

 

[aero_sallee]

Pics would be great. How well does it hold the flapper shut? I'm somewhat worried about the flapper blowing open. Thanks.

Sure thing. I'll show you the pics that I have. If you want more I can take them. What I did was bend one of the mounting tabs slightly on the actuator. Drilled and tapped a spot in the compressor housing. Its held on by one bolt with a nut as a spacer to add a little preload.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/aero83/P5080128.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/aero83/P5080130.jpg
Have about 8k on this with no issues. As far as holding boost. Boost creep wise it will hold down to 10psi with no creep fine. I have only had it up to 17psi daily due to an insufficient fuel setup. Couple runs I've had it go up to 22 psi or so when my BC screw moved on me. Held that all the way fine. This is on a stock 2g head, intake mani, cams revving to 7k on a 2.4l
I'm going to be installing a megasquirt here soon and some other fuel mods, on E85 i'm intending to try 30 psi. So we'll see how the acuator works. I may have to get something different, or add another spring.

 

[sweet97]

I have the HX-35/40. I am having trouble getting 2 or 3 guys to agree on what this is capable of flowing. It has the 40 compressor wheel/housing and the 35 turbine wheel in a Bullseye turbine housing.
The compressor wheel has 8 blades. I have had some say is is not much better than 60lbs/min, some say 70lbs/min, 73lbs/min and 75+lbs/min. Not that I am going to reach it's full potential but I would like to know! Anyone have an idea, hopefully backed by literature from Holset, that they can share with me?
I have added a JM FAB SMIM and changed the HKS 272's for Crower stage 4's, part # 64415. The 272's have 213* duration and .406"/.386" lift, in/out. The Crowers are 216*/218* and .425"/.416" of lift, in/out. Durations at .050". I believe the BUCK issue was ignition related as I also had to set my plug gap at .022" or it would blow the spark and break up badly up top. I found a really nice clean looking coil pack from a CYCLONE JDM motor that I will be trying also. Bought a new set of BPR7ES and set the gap at .025". My upper IC piping is about 1' shorter and my lower IC piping had been 1' of 2" and the rest was 2.25" leading to the 2.5" inlet of the IC. The lower piping will be all 2.5". I have the MSD DIS-2 but will not use it unless I have not resolved the buck with the mods listed here. I also got rid of the banjo bolt on the filter with -6an fittings and hose from the fuel filter to the rail.
So if someone has some definitive info on the flow of this turbo I sure would apprecaite that and any tips on any other mods I can do to compliment what I have would be apprecaited.
Turbo has a cold air inlet and the 4" pipe will be wrapped in header wrap. The turbo flows_______ and the Spearco 2-221 is rated at 1080CFM at 1.5psi drop into a JM SMIM through a wrapped aluminum upper IC pipe and into a stage 3 Buschur Ported and polished head with the valves being bumped with the cam specs listed. This should flow a noticeable amount of additional air than last year. What does this HX-35/40 flow(8 blace comp wheel)? Any other mods you would add? I have an intake temp gauge with the sensor in the TB elbow and temps stay below 100* as long as I don't do back to back runs. Thanks, mark

 

[sweet97]

How do I identify my compressor as being a 40? What is the inducer size of a 40's wheel? No one has specs for the flow of the turbo's? Mark

 

[sweet97]

What other turbines will fit the HX-35 turbine wheel? I am beginning to thoink the bullseye turbine is the cause of my BUCK! I did a google search for Holset specs and came up with a thread on Holset FAQS. They talked about small turbines causing "choke" More back pressure than the compressed charge air. Could be my BUCK. I don't want to give up on the Holset but there isn't any tech support especially with bullseye going wholesale. I thought about having the turbine ported but am not sure that would help. There is always the chance it is spark related because I had to gap my plugs at .022" to prevent the spark from being blown out. Where's all the Holset owners? I need some suggestions. mark

 

[aero_sallee]

What other turbines will fit the HX-35 turbine wheel? I am beginning to thoink the bullseye turbine is the cause of my BUCK! I did a google search for Holset specs and came up with a thread on Holset FAQS. They talked about small turbines causing "choke" More back pressure than the compressed charge air. Could be my BUCK. I don't want to give up on the Holset but there isn't any tech support especially with bullseye going wholesale. I thought about having the turbine ported but am not sure that would help. There is always the chance it is spark related because I had to gap my plugs at .022" to prevent the spark from being blown out. Where's all the Holset owners? I need some suggestions. mark

When a turbo runs into an exhaust flow limitation usually causes the power to just taper off on the top end. I haven't heard of that causing bucking or anything like that. Also in most situations the drive pressure (exhaust backpressure) is greater than boost pressure.

Do you have an EGT gauge? You could connect an oil pressure gauge to the bung you have the EGT, run it up to the cabin and test the backpressure. Probably have to have a accumulator to take the pulses out to make the gauge readable. I'm planning on trying this out sometime.

 

[IPT]

I have ran into this buck before. Once it was on a old hybrid. It was because I was running too rich. I leaned it out some and it went away. IT seemed to only happen around 4500rpms. This happened to be on my 1G car.

I had something simular on my 2G. It would break apart and seem to stall out as it went through the rpm band. It would still rev, but not very well. I installed the DIS-2 and now I can run my plugs at .028" and have no problems.

Just FYI hopefully this helps some.

I would change that lower IC pipe and install the DIS-2 and see what happens.

 

[DSM90AWD]

How do I identify my compressor as being a 40? What is the inducer size of a 40's wheel? No one has specs for the flow of the turbo's? Mark

Mark, found a couple threads you may/may not have seen on Holsets:

http://www.dodgedieseldatabase.com/holset_specs.htm

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3249&page=1

And here's one from Brian at FP discussing turbine backpressure's affects on performance:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1670844&postcount=15

May want to try the backpressure test as Brian/aero_sallee suggest to determine if coudl be an issue.

Along the lines of backpressure, the higher the backpressure, the more exhaust dillution, the more timing you should be running (opposite is true for low backpressure). You mention capping ignition advance to 10* at WOT. May not be enough timing advance for you and the combustion proccess is not complete.

If your car is still having the missing problem when the snow melts may want to add a degree or two more base timing to see if that helps any

 

[sweet97]

THANKS GUYS! I will see what happens when I bring it out this spring with the new coil pack. I can of course add the MSD DIS-2. I also have a chip with 14* minimum because some experienced tuners told Jeff that 14* was the minimum they would run saying that 10* was too low of an advance.
You guys have given me some hope. I will read the links after I run some errands. The BUCK was ruining my ride all last year. Like I said I had to gap my plugs at .022" just to stop it from breaking up. I thought it was a weak spark. Thanks again. I do run a hybrid HX-35/40 Holset. Mark

 

[sweet97]

I spoke to Robert at Forced Performance today and he said there was nothing they could do as far as changing the turbine housing which he said had an A/R of .49. I also spoke to Joshua from GREperformance and he said he had hit 35psi with this turbo at least once and 30psi a few times but he only had the turbo on his car for a few days of testing/analysis. He also said he felt the turbine was not causing a restriction to exhaust flow and that he had tested such but my turbine has no plug where he might have tapped it that I can see.
If ignition and fuel modifications I did this winter do not resolve this buck I will either have to live with the most boost I can get before the buck or get another turbo. Robert suggested the FP3065! Me too but I do have my limits! I do not know what I would get that would flow near 70lbs/min if I replaced the Holset so hoping it works out. One thing that was a unanimous feeling was that 10* timing advance was too low. I have a chip with 14* which is considered to be the lowest that should be run. I will try that. I also have the MSD DIS-2 to install but MSD has another box especailly for turbo applications and I don't need the extra features this box has as my chip already has them. Too bad they didn't have a box that simply assisted spark without any other frills. Here's the changes from last season:
1.JM FAB SMIM
2. -6an fittings and line from fuel filter to fuel rail
3. Changing out the HKS cams for Crower #64415's. The HKS have 213* duration, in/out and .406"/.386" lift. The Crowers have 216*/218* duration, in/out and .425"/.416" lift.
4. Lower IC piping will be all 2.5" when currently I have 1' of 2" and the rest is 2.25". Right now I don't see changing the Spearco 2-221 out as I don't do back to back running at all. Looking forward to John's IAT research!
5. I guess I will install the MSD after speaking to them. 6. I got a new set of NGK BPR7ES but I may try the non-projected tip plug also.
7. Now it's just waiting for the cams and spring! Thanks guys for the info that you provided the last couple of posts.
Bullseye is wholsale now. I asked Josh about the inducer and exducer sizes and he said I should remove the cover and use a set of mics and measure which I thought would be something a vendor should be able to supply as I am not about to remove my turbo and then the cover to take measurements so if anyone has these specs I would appreciate them. Thanks, Mark
PS: I am looking for the sizes of a HX-40 compressor wheel.

 

[aero_sallee]

Bullseye is wholsale now. I asked Josh about the inducer and exducer sizes and he said I should remove the cover and use a set of mics and measure which I thought would be something a vendor should be able to supply as I am not about to remove my turbo and then the cover to take measurements so if anyone has these specs I would appreciate them. Thanks, Mark
PS: I am looking for the sizes of a HX-40 compressor wheel.

The problem is that there are several different models of HX40 compressor wheels. Different blade designs, different number of blades and also different inducer and exducer sizes. Holset is probably the only company that would know from the build and s/n. Now if you bought the whole turbo from them then I would think they should have measured it.

 

[sweet97]

I bought mine from greperformance.com It has 8 blades and the owner of the company should be able to find the date he got it from bullseye and find the info. What has happened now is Bullseye is simply a wholesaler which means NO MORE CUSTOMER SUPPORT. I give Holsets a year tops before they become extinct as options for DSM's.
Also the compressor housing has had the tag with the pertinent info removed! Mark

 

[90AWDTalon]

I just got done installing an HX35 on my talon, along with switching from a supra sidemount to a fmic and swapping pte 680 injectors for fic 950's. So far all I've done is closed loop tunning, I haven't done any full throttle tunning yet, hope to start tomarrow. While just cruising down the freeway I noticed this turbo is very willing to spool. 5th gear at about 3200 rpm's, 10psi is just a throttle blip away. While cruising 5th gear at about 3000 rpm's I went full throttle to see how well it spooled, I hit 14 psi at 3300 rpm's, I have my boost controller backed all the way out for now. I was pretty pleased to see it spool so well, that was my biggest worry going from the evoIII I had previously. Cant wait to see what happens when I turn the boost up, hoping for 25 psi around 3800 rpm's.

 

[highbooster]

I have a hx40 7 blade turbo. I posted a red pic on page 1 of this thread. The wheel size is 60mm inducer 88mm exducer. I talked to a well known dodge performance turbo shop. They recomended that i find a seven blade turbo. If not 7 then the six blade, then if all else fails get the 8 blade. Im just passing on some free advice i got to my fellow dsm'ers looking to go holset.

 

[90AWDTalon]

I've done a couple of full throttle pulls now. Been slowly increasing the boost. The hx35 spools very good, the last run I did I hit 27-28 psi, I need a new boost guage mine only gose to 25psi. It happened too fast to see when full boost hit, but if I had to guess I'd say mid to upper 3000 range. I'd say that it starts spooling alittle sooner than the evoIII I had, the boost build up slightly slower than the evoIII does, and then at some point, happened to fast to see where it happened, the spool up absolutely rockets off. After that I slowed down to 2500 rpm's in third gear, then went full throttle and watched the spool up, I didn't stay in it becuase of traffic, but when I let off at about 3400 rpm's I was at about 21 psi.

So far I'm very happy with the turbo. I've got a very rich and conservative tune. I'm going to turn the boost back down some and dial in the tune. I wont know for sure if it performs better than the evoIII until I can make it to the track this spring. Been too long since driving the car with the evoIII to say if it is stronger or if I'm just used to my 116 horsepower Miata.

 

[steel_3d]

That kind of spool seems too good to be true! You're still running stock 1g compression, right?

 

[Steve93Talon]

That kind of spool seems too good to be true! You're still running stock 1g compression, right?

Read back a few pages, we're seeing insane spool up on the HX40 on a stock 1G 6 bolt a well.

 

[90AWDTalon]

That kind of spool seems too good to be true! You're still running stock 1g compression, right?

Yes, everything inside the block and head is stock '91.

I went autoXing yesterday and lag is not an issue, from 3000 to 3500 spool up was slightly slower than the evoIII, but this was minor and actually made the car feel smoother instead of a sudden jolt of torque. I think this is going to be an awsome autoX turbo.

 

[CyberManiaK]

and does anybody have tryed a HX30 turbine with HX35 compressor ? i want to make this on my stratus or better go with a hx30 all the way. ?

 

[sweet97]

Getting near the start of the new season! I got some additions done this winter that are going to help. Changed out the HKS 272's for Crower Stage 4's/64415's. HKS had 213* duration and lifts of .406"/.386". The Crowers are 218*/216* with lifts of .425"/.416". Got the JM SMIM on, nice! Running the HX-35/40. The buck issue was mostly WAY TOO MUCH BOOST. My gauge last year went to 20psi and I would peg it on the 0 the other side. Pump gas and 10* timing advance. Backed the boost to 20-22 and leaned the fuel 10% at WOT and wow, made more power than ever and this is a VERY rough tune. I also have a new chip with 14* at WOT. I may have to go with 2 tunes, one for pump and one for some 112. Trying big boost on pump with low timing did not work but hey you gotta try! 14* may not be enough but we will see with the amount of boost I am able to run on pump with it. 22-24 psi on pump is enough.
Also changed the filter to ral line with -6an fittings and line to get rid of the banjo on the filter. I have an MSD DIS-2 but am not sure if I should add it, any thoughts on that? I read there is another DIS for off road use with 65% hotter spark.
New EAGLE wheels, 17"x8" with 245/40-17 Kumho Ecsta MX rubber. Eibach Pro's with KYB/GR-2's. Stiff enough for me, bad back.
That's the latest. mark