Group buy: Stronger 5 speed gears!

[msterner19]

No updates yet. Last update was on 30NOV23 3:00PM PST. At that point there were 22x 1-4 and 9x 3-4 gearsets paid for.

Any further updates on this. Considering buying if it's close enough

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Bigger stronger W5M33 gears?

Hope for good results when its done. Tim is a great guy have had some guys i know deal with him and he has always been stand up. I figured these new gear sets would take a while and hope to be a good option.

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[1990dsmkid]

As there been anything more on this?

 

[Christo]

Last update I got was January.

Hello everyone,
It’s no secret that this project has taken longer than we initially hoped or expected.

The refinement process for some components within the kit has required multiple rounds of rework. The most challenging area has been the engagement teeth (dog rings) on gears 1 through 4, which has needed several revisions to get right.

Because this is a complete system, progress on one component can’t happen in isolation. Any change has a flow-on effect to other parts, which means adjustments often ripple through the entire assembly. It’s frustrating for everyone, but will be worth it all in the end.

The major revisions (remaking the dog rings for improved undercut) currently underway are due to be completed within 3 weeks. Once those are complete, we’ll finally be in a position to install the first sets into our trial cars and begin proper in-car testing.

Thank you sincerely for trusting us with your money and your patience over such an extended period. I’m hopeful that I will bring some positive updates and results to share with you as soon as these revised parts are in our hands.

Cheers,
Sam Charlick

 

[TedBrosby]

I think it's kind of hilarious that Kurt was calling this out as being a very ambitious project and that he's skeptical, and a lot of people piled on him, but here we are 2.5 years later and there hasn't even been a test yet.

I'm not talking smack, because I feel confident that they will get this out eventually, but a lot of people were singing them praises like this was going to be a super successful product in 2025 and right now it might not even make it to shelves before 2026 is up.

Also, I'm wondering how this additional engineering, manufacturing and complicated revisions will affect their budget. It's not cheap: engineering, assembly, manufacturing, changes to molds. They got what, 40 pre-orders? $200,000 sounds like a lot of money, but we're talking about a team of what, 2 or 3 mechanical engineers, numerous mechanics, someone managing them, plus various supplies, a test car?

Fun fact: if you invested the $5000 from the pre-order into a common ETF like SPY, you'd have $6000 now, which is more than the "non preorder" price. Of course, they needed the pre-orders to even start the project, but I just think it's important to note that if you missed out on the pre-order, it really depends on where that money you would've spent on the pre-order ended up living.

I am seriously hoping they wrapped up the complex revisions and are now mostly stress testing, because any more revisions and they might have to raise more funds to justify the project and there's a high possibility they'll operate in the red for the first initial 100 sets they sell. It's going to be hard for them to justify keeping them on the shelves at that point. And DSM guys aren't exactly known for being generous with their wallets.

 

[Ludachris]

I think it's kind of hilarious that Kurt was calling this out as being a very ambitious project and that he's skeptical, and a lot of people piled on him, but here we are 2.5 years later and there hasn't even been a test yet.

I'm not talking smack, because I feel confident that they will get this out eventually, but a lot of people were singing them praises like this was going to be a super successful product in 2025 and right now it might not even make it to shelves before 2026 is up.

Also, I'm wondering how this additional engineering, manufacturing and complicated revisions will affect their budget. It's not cheap: engineering, assembly, manufacturing, changes to molds. They got what, 40 pre-orders? $200,000 sounds like a lot of money, but we're talking about a team of what, 2 or 3 mechanical engineers, numerous mechanics, someone managing them, plus various supplies, a test car?

Fun fact: if you invested the $5000 from the pre-order into a common ETF like SPY, you'd have $6000 now, which is more than the "non preorder" price. Of course, they needed the pre-orders to even start the project, but I just think it's important to note that if you missed out on the pre-order, it really depends on where that money you would've spent on the pre-order ended up living.

I am seriously hoping they wrapped up the complex revisions and are now mostly stress testing, because any more revisions and they might have to raise more funds to justify the project and there's a high possibility they'll operate in the red for the first initial 100 sets they sell. It's going to be hard for them to justify keeping them on the shelves at that point. And DSM guys aren't exactly known for being generous with their wallets.

All pretty valid thoughts. Would be nice to get some sort of update on where they're at in the process.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I’m personally being very patient and hoping for the best. If my build was further along I might have a harder time with it. Nothing good came easy or fast right? More updates would be nice though seeings how our money is in their hands.

 

[Drewpy Dawg]

I've been watching this with interest from the beginning. If it goes to plan and an updated, improved, stronger transmission with readily available rebuild parts becomes available it's going to be huge for our platform. On one hand it's not surprising that it has taken longer than originally expected, and if that's because all the bugs are being worked out then it's actually a positive. The danger, of course, is if working out all the bugs becomes overwhelming and too expensive and the project collapses and we get nothing. Like many investments, it's a gamble. Big props to those who were able to buy in. And if it works out as hoped you should be nominated for DSM hero status.

 

[1cleangsx]

If I had stayed 5 spd I would be betting on these gears, they would be a street car alternative to a ppg gear set costing the same price, I still think if these were to completely fall thru, which I’m not saying they will, just grow a set and run a ppg gear set. Long gone are the days of plentiful oem/staged rebuilds. I personally just don’t want to spend that kind of coin on a trans, but you gotta pay to play if your making any sort of power

 

[ist dwa]

I am just waiting to see who wins....these guys building this trans or someone 3D printing an OEM 6 bolt lower timing cover??

 

[bastarddsm]

I've been watching this with interest from the beginning. If it goes to plan and an updated, improved, stronger transmission with readily available rebuild parts becomes available it's going to be huge for our platform. On one hand it's not surprising that it has taken longer than originally expected, and if that's because all the bugs are being worked out then it's actually a positive. The danger, of course, is if working out all the bugs becomes overwhelming and too expensive and the project collapses and we get nothing. Like many investments, it's a gamble. Big props to those who were able to buy in. And if it works out as hoped you should be nominated for DSM hero status.

If by readily available, you mean in Austrailia, hoping that NEAT keeps up production for a fraction of what mitsubishi did then yes. Don't forget it's all proprietary that fits nothing else.

Best as I can tell neat was not at all interested in working with any US shops on this, so fat chance of a stocking US dealer. Ask guys how it's been to get PPG parts lately.

 

[Tiki2777]

The more annoying piece has been the fact that this Team/Company (couldn't tell you how many individuals they have employed so there's that) has been continually posting, and showing updates and asking the community as a whole about parts and pieces and other platform drivetrain parts.

Like, what a slap in the face to the guys who dropped this much money on this preorder years ago at this point. If you're gonna take this long (and maybe with VERY valid reasons) the updates should be on the dot, hell it should be posted to HIS MAIN PAGE, so that his other potential customers, KNOW, what the hell they're signing up for in other cases.

I didn't buy in (my brother did), because I'd honestly rather buy a PPG kit if I break my units at this point, BUT, many people did.

 

[We're on Boost]

For people who have bought in during the last 2 years, it's been kind of like an investment in the Australian Dollar, which has turned out pretty OK so far.
Check it out - Peak USD to AUD buying power was in around January of 2025. Was pretty good before that too, and for a while after.
The regular price in AUD of the 1-4 gearset has been steady at 8,950 AUD for over a year now, not sure exactly how long that's been.

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[jdxnc]

If by readily available, you mean in Austrailia, hoping that NEAT keeps up production for a fraction of what mitsubishi did then yes. Don't forget it's all proprietary that fits nothing else.

Best as I can tell neat was not at all interested in working with any US shops on this, so fat chance of a stocking US dealer. Ask guys how it's been to get PPG parts lately.

No one wants to deal with all the extra bullshit to ship to the US now, every item needs an HS code, which can be a PITA to find the correct 10 digit code that corresponded to the type of product. I just had to figure it out for a viscous coupler eliminator I sold to a US resident.

PPG had no hesitation at all about shipping to Canada, couple emails and an input shaft was here in a week.

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah, it is a mess right now for sure. And then I wonder if everyone is going to get hit with a tariff charge when/if they finally do get here.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Big props to those who were able to buy in.

If you consider putting it on a charge card and finally paying it off being able to…

 

[twicks69]

I was PM'ing back and forth with Sam @ NEAT this week, this is what the current update is on the gearset stuff -
Per Sam @ NEAT - " a million re-works on the dog rings etc have set us back a long way. Next revision will go into a gearbox next week and we hope to have a working prototype at that point."

 

[Drewpy Dawg]

If you consider putting it on a charge card and finally paying it off being able to…

Hey, whatever it takes. Been there, done that.

 

[twicks69]

Updates from NEAT

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[fourgsixty3]

Updates from NEAT

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Hey Tim, what're your thoughts on what we're seeing here? Is there enough for an opinion?

 

[twicks69]

The parts so far I have seen look great from photo, I will have to see them in person when they are done! The center diff looks excellent!

 

[bastarddsm]

The bronze thrust washers in the center diff look like they will be a problem.
That is a very strange profile on the 1 and 2 gears. It looks like it's a old timey low pressure angle profile with a inward profile shift. I think a Ford top-loader kind of looks like that, but not as severe. Sort of the opposite you'd do for tooth strength but maybe to reduce shaft separation loads - which normal guys don't have an issue with really. Probably improves contact ratio a bit, but we don't usually have problems with 1 and 2. Normally on the input shaft first and second you'd shift the profile outward to reduce tooth undercutting, basically like cutting 12t on a blank made for 13t, and that makes the teeth more pointy like the gears we see in a PPG or liberty or gforce. Involutes let you do that, and run it with a standard gear or one shifted either way. So maybe they shifted the input out, and the gear in to keep the c2c the same, hard to know without all the pictures.

 

[twicks69]

Yup, looks like an old Muncie gearset. We will have to see more, and how it goes with testing.

 

[MeB00sta]

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[DreamChaser7]

Where’s that video from? I emailed him a week ago with questions but never heard back.