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2G Building a stronger 5 speed transmission

Posted by FAQGSX222, Oct 28, 2019

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  1. Talon96fwd

    Talon96fwd Proven Member

    194
    27
    Joined Apr 11, 2011
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Hopefully you guys come up with something. I love all this brainstorming going all in this conversation. If something comes out of it count me in. I’m currently on my 5th trans and recently purchase another trans from jacks. NO FUN!
     

    1K  0

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi
    14.184 @ 104.365 · 2G DSM
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  2. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,192
    362
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Wow! I can't imagine what it takes to go thru that many transmissions. Do you race it constantly?
    I am saving for some straight gears when I destroy this trans (and my hoard of spare evo3 parts). I haven't broken a transmission in my 14 years DSM'ing - but I also have never been on a track. I did try to use a "good used" trans from a member on here when I did my AWD swap, but I only made it 14 miles before it locked up and left me stranded (destroyed bellhousing). I don't count that as me breaking it*

    @Talon96fwd - I highly doubt anything will materialize from this. I would guess there are already people developing the hub and slider. I will deal with the gear whine when that day comes (assuming I can get those parts in the future - anybody's guess).
     

    Street Build 7K  16

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  3. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    246
    113
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    The gear whine I think is can be lived with, especially if you stick with the factory 5th gear for your long drives and freeway cruising. My real concern/question for those that do run the PPG set is what is it like to drive on the street? My car sees maybe 2500-3000 miles in a year so it is far from a daily. But it is street driven. I have no issue spending the money on a dog box if it means I can keep driving my car but how badly does the dog engagement affect drivability?
     

    Autocross Build 2K  3

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.06 @ 105.75 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  4. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,994
    1,540
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    I actually just bought another 1g awd shell locally. I'm really serious about making it a high hp auto build and toning down my red one to an evo3 turbo build. I've heard many people say the 16g is the hardest on these transmissions. I can't see how that's true. Anyone have an opinion on that?
     

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  5. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    498
    188
    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    The 16G on E85 would be prone to the big torque spike but it's not the worst offender. Any setup that can make 500+ lb-ft for a sustained duration (basically a bigger turbo, likely a stroker) is going to be the worst.
     
  6. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,281
    711
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    I have one remaining evo 3 3/4 hub and slider I am using for modeling and will get quotes on machining, but I need it EDM'ed or broached or both. It will be a while to make, but it will at least let me do rebuilds on pre-1992.5 gearsets and resume stage 1/2/3 builds. I have zero issues driving a dogbox on the street, just use the clutch in between shifts, no biggie. I already have a loud ass car with a huge turbo, a twin disk, loud exhaust, etc. The noise of a straight cut gearset is the least of my concerns.
     

    Drag Race Build 8K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  7. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,192
    362
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Tim, I am glad you are working up a design for the hub and slider! That is exciting for everyone! If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. If nothing else, I have a pretty good network of machinists and machine shops. I cant share the documentation, but I can certainly make suggestions based on the type of work being done. Happy to help any way I can...

    The more I think about this, the more I just want to sell my built evo 2 trans and buy a ppg setup...
     

    Street Build 7K  16

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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    Hickory-NC-2Ggsx likes this.
  8. Talon96fwd

    Talon96fwd Proven Member

    194
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    Joined Apr 11, 2011
    Alexandria, Virginia
    I made 630whp and 500tq on a 2.0 liter. My car has seen the track once and that was at a roll racing event. Broke 3rd gear doing a pull on the highway LOL. Not sure how that occurred while already rolling. Going auto is no fun by just pressing a gas paddle is not a option for me. Do straight cut gears help more? If I post my receipt can you tell me what’s the longevity?
     

    1K  0

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi
    14.184 @ 104.365 · 2G DSM
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  9. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,485
    1,037
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Everyone assumes straights are stronger than helical. It's not that simple. Strong is a broad term, and gears being a dynamic element there is a lot to it. In many cases helical is a stronger gear.
     

    Showcar Build 6K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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    19Eclipse90 likes this.
  10. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    Tim,
    Recently I was told by a parts supplier in Japan that the discontinued EVO 3 3-4 hub/slider might possibly be available again in next year. yet I haven't confirmed it with Mitsubishi and I don't believe it too much. But if it's true, that a good news. Do you have any info about that?
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  11. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,281
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    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    I have not heard anything of them making more, I have regularly put in order requests and they just bounce back as obsolete.
     

    Drag Race Build 8K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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    DSMPT likes this.
  12. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Very true. A straight gear vs helical (size on size and all other factors being equal), the helical wins due to more bearing area in meshing. Two parallel lines (faces of the gear) are joined in the shortest distance by a line perpendicular to those lines. Any angle deviation from perpendicular will result in a longer line to connect those two faces. Basically, the tooth profile is "wider" when they are angled.

    View attachment 582074


    The advantage of the straight cut gears is primarily reduced/no axial loading, right?
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 7K  16

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 388  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 311  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    llxkevinxll likes this.
  13. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    633
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    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    They normally reply as discontinued, too. But this time I heard back as available in 2020. I think it's just a mistake but I will update it here in case if I get any further info. Thank you.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 1K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  14. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,281
    711
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    I contacted my Mitsu rep for further info.
     

    Drag Race Build 8K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  15. jakelandry

    jakelandry Proven Member

    820
    98
    Joined Oct 13, 2009
    Minden, Louisiana
    Glad to see people haven’t given up on this yet. Every time I get on here and see a new trans thread I get my hopes up.
     

    3K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.410 @ 125.490 · 2G DSM
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  16. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,485
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    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Yes, but I think you are geometrically limited when you have a narrow face width and want a larger pitch gear (bigger but less teeth) - i think.

    Helical generally has more contact ratio, which helps smooth the load transitions, and improves fatigue life.
     

    Showcar Build 6K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  17. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,281
    711
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Mitsu responded that MD747378 has no new news, been obsolete since 2014. That is the Evo 3 3rd/4th hub and slider.
     

    Drag Race Build 8K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  18. Ben-Stian

    Ben-Stian Proven Member

    125
    28
    Joined Aug 23, 2006
    NORWAY, Europe
    Mathias Boldt,Boldt Racing in Germany can make you straight cut 3- and 4th gear (I bought the 4th gear from him years ago as my 4th gear stripped teeths to many times...) You have to ship him your old axles/gears as he machines them and put new gears on. Did not break any 4th gears after that. Had lots of low 10sec passes on them and dyno as well. Just under 700 whp and 750 nm.
     
    Hickory-NC-2Ggsx likes this.
  19. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,192
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    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Hopefully it gets developed so as to keep people on the road. Salt is on the roads here in Racine as of this morning, so I am parked until spring. I may sell off my evo 2 trans and call you about a PPG setup before long. I would prefer to take the hit selling a perfect working, built, used, trans compared to breaking it and starting from (potentially) nothing.
     

    Street Build 7K  16

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 388  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 311  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  20. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    633
    276
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    Yeah that's the part number I asked my supplier. Thank you.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 1K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  21. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,192
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    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    @Ben-Stian

    How much did they charge you for that service? Sounds like an interesting compromise. No issues with other gears for you?
     

    Street Build 7K  16

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 388  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 311  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  22. Steve92talon

    Steve92talon Proven Member

    137
    21
    Joined Jul 3, 2019
    Fernie, BC, Canada
    Well I feel lucky now having a 92 and a 90 transmission not a latter trans to work with.
     
  23. FAQGSX222

    FAQGSX222 Supporting Member

    149
    75
    Joined Jul 26, 2015
    Louisville, Tennessee
    Absolutely information overload! This should be a thread for everyone else that wonders the same thing. The amount of in-depth parts knowledge and what parts work and how rare they are. I want to thank everyone who added to help guide myself on what can be done in the garage and what HAS to be professionally done. I’ve got a ton to research and plan for the future,
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Hickory-NC-2Ggsx likes this.
  24. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,485
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    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    It ends up being 2500-3000 by the time you pay all the customs bs. I don't think it's a great value. There were a few guys that had issues with pitting. The profile looks like it is a pretty low pressure angle, which is good for case spreading loads,but bad for tooth strength. They look like they are 14.5*, and it really leaves me with the feeling that they are cut on a mill with a form cutter, and a dividing head. Probably 8620, and not finish ground. That's not great for gear quality and life. He won't answer any questions as to material or process, so I would be leary.

    For guys on the fence about a ppg cause of the noise ect. I was just out for a cruise in mine, in 5th gear it's really pretty quiet. I have a very quiet exhaust, and you can barely hear the whine over the exhuast. Driving around town shifting isn't bad at all. It's a 3 step process. 1. go to neutral 2. pause 3.complete the shift quickly. If you time it right, it goes in the next gear silently. Downshifting can be a pita. When it's warm and at low speed its not too bad. WOT shifting is a breeze.

    The one part that sucks for me, is it's all or nothing if you are getting on it. On the street I enjoy rolling into it, and lazily shifting it. Can't do that. If it's got any kind of RPM, you basically need to take it all the way, and jam the next gear.

    The last part I don't like is I think first gear is too tall for a medium power heavy street car.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2019

    Showcar Build 6K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  25. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,192
    362
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    That is very interesting about the PPG set. I have heard it is sort-of all or nothing with the shifting... I only drive on the street so it is certainly something to think about. Thanks, Bastard.
     

    Street Build 7K  16

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 388  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 311  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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