Group buy: Stronger 5 speed gears!

[jakk220]

So I know there is already a post on this, but the title is a bit misleading and I wanted to make it known that this time sensitive group buy is happening through Neat gearboxes, an Australian based company.

The group buy is for 1-4 gearsets as well as a 3-4 gearset.

Myself and many others have been waiting for this for a long time. This is the perfect option for those like myself not wanting to deal with the lack of street-ability and cost of a dog box but want stronger gears. Stock transmission gears and parts are becoming discontinued, or extremely hard to get. And as many of us know, stock parts aren't good for the 500hp street cars that most of us have leaving us no choice other than auto, or dog box. Neat gearboxes is trying to offer a solution to this with designing upgraded helical gears, as well as other upgrades and replacement parts.

The group buy is currently taking place on their Facebook page/website. The cost for a 1-4 gearset is about 5,000 USD. This is for a pre-production purchase.

*NOTE* The price on their website is AUS. So it will seem higher at a glance.

IN ORDER FOR THIS TO BECOME AVAILABLE, THEY NEED 30 SETS TO BE ORDERED OF THE 1-4 SET BY THE 30TH OF NOVEMBER. Otherwise they claim it won't happen. The timing is terrible with Christmas and I tried to get them to delay it a bit, but they claim they can not wait. If they hit their goal and get 30 orders, they said that all of these parts will be available for the foreseeable future as on the shelf parts basically.

They are working closely with Tim Zimmer from TMZ Performance, so you can count on everything being done and tested correctly.

So, what's included in the kit? Below is a lost off of their page of what's included:

– Fully revised 1st – 4th gears that are MUCH wider and stronger than the standard gears
– Custom carbon lined double synchroniser rings for 1st – 4th gear
– Revised 4-spider centre differential including strengthened bevel gears and cross pin
– Billet mid housing with revised intermediate shaft bearing for a more rigid assembly
– Billet 1-2 shift fork, and revised 1-2 hub and selector sleeve
– Billet shift fork and 3-4 shift rail, and revised 3-4 hub and selector sleeve
– Removable dog rings on 1st – 4th gears
– Splined gears on the intermediate shaft and centre diff, enabling individual serviceability
– Reduced helix angle on the 1st – 4th gears, and centre diff, to lower thrust loading
– Gears made from 9310 aerospace case-hardened steel, and profile ground for optimal mesh
– A comprehensive step-by-step installation PDF manual and support video.


Here is a list of the parts that would be included:

1 x input shaft with larger Evo 4-9 23T 25mm clutch spline and integrated spigot journal
1 x wide 1st gear 31 tooth intermediate (low helix profile ground 9310 case hardened steel)
1 x wide 2nd gear 29 tooth intermediate (low helix profile ground 9310 case hardened steel)
1 x 1-2 selector hub
1 x 1-2 selector sleeve with integrated reverse gear
3 x 1-2 energiser keys
2 x 1-2 energiser springs
1 x billet chromoly 1-2 shift fork
1 x 1st splined dog ring
1 x 2nd splined dog ring
1 x 1st synchro (three-piece dual friction carbon-lined)
1 x 2nd synchro (three-piece dual friction carbon-lined)
1 x intermediate shaft
1 x wide 3rd gear 29 tooth intermediate (low helix profile ground 9310 case hardened steel)
1 x extra wide 4th gear 25 tooth intermediate (low helix profile ground 9310 case hardened steel)
1 x 3-4 intermediate spacer collar
1 x wide 3rd gear 25 tooth input (low helix profile ground 9310 case hardened steel)
1 x extra wide 4th gear 29 tooth input (low helix profile ground 9310 case hardened steel)
1 x 3rd splined dog ring
1 x 4th splined dog ring
1 x 3rd synchro (three-piece dual friction carbon-lined)
1 x 4th synchro (three-piece dual friction carbon-lined)
1 x 3-4 selector hub
1 x 3-4 selector sleeve
3 x 3-4 energiser keys
2 x 3-4 energiser springs
1 x 3-4 billet 6061 shift fork
1 x 3-4 chromoly billet shift rail with multiple adaptions for different models
1 x fully redesigned centre diff unit with 4 spider gears and revised cross pin
1 x billet 6061 mid housing
1 x intermediate shaft bearing
1 x input shaft bearing
5 x intermediate shaft shims
2 x shift rail roll pins
1 x installation manual

What are the ratios?
12/31 1st – A primary ratio of 2.58:1 and a final ratio of 3.30:1
18/29 2nd – A primary ratio of 1.61 and a final ratio of 2.06:1
25/29 3rd – A primary ratio of 1.16:1 and final ratio of 1.48:1
29/25 4th – A primary ratio of 0.86:1 and a final ratio of 1.10:1
29/37 centre diff drop ratio, giving a drop ratio of 1.28:1


Now, if you know what the current cost is to rebuild a stock transmission, then you know that $5,000 for this kit is an amazing deal to have an upgraded transmission and center differential. Not to mention the money you will save from not blowing up your transmission every 3k miles like I'm currently doing.

The fact is, if we don't get this to happen, who knows when or if we will ever see upgraded gears for this car. Parts are becoming obsolete and we need this as a community. If you can afford to order one, now would be your chance. There are currently only 7 kits ordered and we need 30.

Here is a link to their Facebook page. Their is also a members only group going specifically for the project. https://www.facebook.com/Neatgearboxes?mibextid=ZbWKwL

Here is a link to their website for more information and ordering

https://shop.neatgearboxes.com.au/p...vs7K2-y7ZQcmF03kvCaTWRA5r6dpB2G2Fzi3Qyw8OEWTk


Here is a link to the other thread:

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/bigger-stronger-w5m33-gears.544932/

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[fourgsixty3]

Thank you for posting this. Hopefully we'll get more people on board. Yeah the timing kinda sucks with the holidays and all so we'll see.

 

[MindBlowin03]

These seems great. Still on the fence about purchasing.

 

[jakk220]

Thank you for posting this. Hopefully we'll get more people on board. Yeah the timing kinda sucks with the holidays and all so we'll see.

Of course. And yeah I sure hope we do. I'm unable to purchase one at this time due to we had $2000 vet bill last week, vacation in Orlando this week, and Christmas. But I really want to see this happen. If I had more time I would sell enough parts to get the money, but a week isn't enough time. I hope they will change their mind and extend it or do it at a later date.

These seems great. Still on the fence about purchasing.

If you can I definitely would recommend doing it! It would help the community a ton if we can get these into production. They're working with some of the best transmission guys our community has to offer so it should be a good kit.

 

[TheDude236]

Any idea if they will offer this in the future if the quota isn't met this time around?

 

[jakk220]

Any idea if they will offer this in the future if the quota isn't met this time around?

They are claiming that there is a good chance if the quota I'd not met, that they as a company will not offer it again. Here is their words exactly from Facebook:

A lot of comments below are noting the timing issues - two main points were raised multiple times, I’ll try to answer here:

“Bad timing. It’s holidays, an expensive time of year and I don’t have the cash right now.”

Yeah, thanksgiving isn’t on our calendar in Australia, so I admit I missed that. Having said that, Black Friday etc tells me that there are plenty of people spending plenty of money on plenty of things - globally it is the biggest spending weekend of the year in online sales. We are in the mix, I guess. Put a pre-production sales order of a Neat W5M33 SportSync kit under the tree for someone special.

We are ready to move on this project now. We need 30+ people to action and get the initial batch off the ground. I’m confident we can get that number over the next week. The people who can and do buy in now, benefit from getting the sets for the cheapest they will ever be. But the plan is for this to become an evergreen product that will be on our shelves for the foreseeable future. If you miss the pre-production sale, you will (hopefully, as long as we get the 30+ commitments) be able to buy the set when you have the cash saved - at the set retail rate.

I opened the project now, because we are ready to move now. If we don’t get the 30+ buy-ins that we need on this round, perhaps we can look at a better time slot (tax time in the USA has been suggested). But my guess is that if we can't get it done now, it is unlikely to work later. It also opens the door for any of our competitors. These projects are difficult to time and manage. For us, the time is now.

“What’s the rush - we’ve been waiting years for this - why only a week to get this off the ground?”

That’s fair, and I understand the frustration here.

The reason why we need a tight open and close window, is to action this project. The timing itself is a call to action for those who are ready and able to commit. If we leave open the window indefinitely until we reach our buy-in target, we would be stringing along those who have already bought in indefinitely - which is not an attractive or fair sales proposition. Another reason is supply side timing - we have dozens of supply contracts to pin down, which have expiry dates, open production slots to meet deadlines and budgets and so on. I understand it is not ideal for everyone, but this is the only viable way to attempt to get such a complex project off the ground.

 

[fourgsixty3]

I wonder if we can get some of the bigger vendors to place an order for multiple units.

 

[TheDude236]

I wonder if we can get some of the bigger vendors to place an order for multiple units.

My thoughts exactly! Would be awesome for those who don't have the cash now

 

[MattHDSM]

Damn, this really is a great deal. I just had a complete rebuild with a handful of upgrades through TRE earlier this year that came out to $4k USD. Had this been an option earlier this year, I absolutely would have dropped that extra thousand. I really hope this takes off, sorry I can't add one more to the group buy list.

 

[jakk220]

I wonder if we can get some of the bigger vendors to place an order for multiple units.

Maybe. It's hard to say since it isn't a part that they can throw on the shelf immediately.

 

[TedBrosby]

Talk about timing... I don't have an AWD transmission. yet but I really want this. I seriously hope they don't just give up after literally a one week deadline after Thanksgiving. They literally picked the toughest week of the year to have a one week deadline. If they did this after tax returns, they'd have 30 orders in a day...

 

[Tondar91GVR4]

Just got an email from Neat.. apparently they just need 10 more orders to make this a go!! if you're on the fence and there's anyway you can swing it, please get in to make this a reality for the platform - desperately needed!!

 

[Christo]

Opted for the 1 -4 kit, really hope they get the numbers they need to make this a reality. This is a hell of a deal if you consider everything that the package includes.

 

[TedBrosby]

Opted for the 1 -4 kit, really hope they get the numbers they need to make this a reality. This is a hell of a deal if you consider everything that the package includes.

A lot of people on the FB DSM groups are crapping on these, saying "why if you can do PPG", I feel like people underestimate the importance of ride and sound quality, and having a reputable company investing into our platform.

 

[CrackedDSM]

A lot of people on the FB DSM groups are crapping on these, saying "why if you can do PPG", I feel like people underestimate the importance of ride and sound quality, and having a reputable company investing into our platform.

A lot of people are just broke and mad so they lash out instead of just admitting it sucks to not have the money right now.

Or they have grandiose plans to do something they’ll never actually do and are violently envious that someone else actually did it.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

People on FB half contribute and the others dream! Currently about 5 pop up on these bashing it. Some of you know them by now and will understand

What people dont realise is while its a costly start up once up and running its an endless supply for people and the chassis wont die out. Imagine not having ANY transmission parts and then being afraid to go drive it so it sits and rots away and then devalues due to lack of parts! Imagine if nissan and honda had this problem people would never buy them again! But they get soooo many people backing them to keep it going strong!

We need to do the same. While I cannot help as im auto if i was a manual i would 1000% make sure to find away to get a set!

Its not like its just a few gears either, but the entire reworkings and available parts now hard to find will once again be easy to find.

So those on fb messing it up just hate DSM's in general and have no understanding of development and start up costs! Because if they front the bill they then add more onto it to compensate! And damn right why they should not do that if they put up front the costs! The lower costs are discounted so helps people out and supporting helps support the chassis in any situation.

 

[fourgsixty3]

People on FB half contribute and the others dream! Currently about 5 pop up on these bashing it. Some of you know them by now and will understand

What people dont realise is while its a costly start up once up and running its an endless supply for people and the chassis wont die out. Imagine not having ANY transmission parts and then being afraid to go drive it so it sits and rots away and then devalues due to lack of parts! Imagine if nissan and honda had this problem people would never buy them again! But they get soooo many people backing them to keep it going strong!

We need to do the same. While I cannot help as im auto if i was a manual i would 1000% make sure to find away to get a set!

Its not like its just a few gears either, but the entire reworkings and available parts now hard to find will once again be easy to find.

So those on fb messing it up just hate DSM's in general and have no understanding of development and start up costs! Because if they front the bill they then add more onto it to compensate! And damn right why they should not do that if they put up front the costs! The lower costs are discounted so helps people out and supporting helps support the chassis in any situation.

FB sucks. I swear, everytime I'm on there looking for something I lose IQ points. People are bashing the price failing to realize what is included in the set which when you add it all up is a steal.

 

[bastarddsm]

I wonder if we can get some of the bigger vendors to place an order for multiple units.

That's gonna be hard to do. That's a lot of money to float out there for a year on an unknown and then at best deal with tire kickers. At worst the set is a bust and there are problems and then the finger pointing begins. As one of the few remaining places that specialize in building these transmissions, I'm not thrilled with the direction it's heading. They are not just having gears made - that's pretty easy and straightforward, and has it's own set of issues, but the shifting parts are all new design too, which is rife with potential complications, and they want to send them out without rigorous testing? Mitsu had revisions about every year or two... And that's with a lot of engineers on staff, years of prior experience, and warranty dollars to worry about. I'm not sure I want to hitch my wagon to all that.

So look at the numbers, I get $700 labor to do an awd trans build, and like 10% markup on parts. So I'm gonna invest 5k per to make $1000, maybe in a year if someones actually got money to buy one? It takes 15-20hrs to do a stock trans, gotta deal with shipping, ups smashing shit, shit customers that email 5x a day wanting it done and then not having money when it's done, or some chargeback shit ect... The numbers just are not good.

Damn, this really is a great deal. I just had a complete rebuild with a handful of upgrades through TRE earlier this year that came out to $4k USD. Had this been an option earlier this year, I absolutely would have dropped that extra thousand. I really hope this takes off, sorry I can't add one more to the group buy list.

I'm not sure you realize that $5k is just for some of the parts. It's still gonna be a $6500-7k trans all done, and you need a good core to start with. It's getting rough out there 1/2 the cases that come in here need weld repair, and have unuseable 5th gear parts.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

FB sucks. I swear, everytime I'm on there looking for something I lose IQ points. People are bashing the price failing to realize what is included in the set which when you add it all up is a steal.

80% of people still done see that its in AUS dollars so they assume wrongly from the start! Its funny when it jumps down near 2.5k and they still moan its high haha. If 7.5k was alot and 5k is not then just give up now. Want cheaper gears then buy cheese and re build every few years and by then cost 4x the amount of the initial set! Logic is not always a strong point

 

[bastarddsm]

FB sucks. I swear, everytime I'm on there looking for something I lose IQ points. People are bashing the price failing to realize what is included in the set which when you add it all up is a steal.

I think the price for what is promissed is not bad. I don't think they will be able to hit that target really. At the end of they day though it's just too much $$ for 99/100 dsmers.

 

[fourgsixty3]

I think the price for what is promissed is not bad. I don't think they will be able to hit that target really. At the end of they day though it's just too much $$ for 99/100 dsmers.

Yeah. I guess we'll see. I'm trying to stay optimistic. Hopefully they can make something that works and not just a paper weight.

Looking at Neats plans how would you go about moving forward? Any changes or improvements? Or just copy OEM components so we have replacement parts?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

I think the price for what is promissed is not bad. I don't think they will be able to hit that target really. At the end of they day though it's just too much $$ for 99/100 dsmers.

The money is all from Evo owners overseas, mostly Asia and Australia/NZ. They are the ones willing to spend to maintain and upgrade, and the US/DSM market is an afterthought now, believe it or not. Despite that, almost all of the clowns talking down pricing come from North America for some reason. I see why vendors ignore us.

 

[95REGF150]

That's gonna be hard to do. That's a lot of money to float out there for a year on an unknown and then at best deal with tire kickers. At worst the set is a bust and there are problems and then the finger pointing begins. As one of the few remaining places that specialize in building these transmissions, I'm not thrilled with the direction it's heading. They are not just having gears made - that's pretty easy and straightforward, and has it's own set of issues, but the shifting parts are all new design too, which is rife with potential complications, and they want to send them out without rigorous testing? Mitsu had revisions about every year or two... And that's with a lot of engineers on staff, years of prior experience, and warranty dollars to worry about. I'm not sure I want to hitch my wagon to all that.

I had the same reservations Kurt without any testing. But it was hard to walk away from this for the price and opportunity for something new for the platform. I ended up going for the 3-4 kit for now as a compromise. Want to support them and think this can be great but I am also worried about initial issues. As an engineer myself I know how many iteration's it can take to get a perfectly working end product which meets all your expectations. Hopefully he hasn't overpromised here.

At the same time I know all about initial capital to get something like this up and going. Hard to lay out that kinda cash as a small business. I'm sure you would be in the same boat turning out a new from scratch product. Lets just hope using the initial users as investors pans out in the long run and we arn't all stuck with gearsets that don't work.

 

[mooserage]

For those of us not on Facebook, any updates on whether they were able to get enough initial buyers?

 

[fourgsixty3]

For those of us not on Facebook, any updates on whether they were able to get enough initial buyers?

No updates yet. Last update was on 30NOV23 3:00PM PST. At that point there were 22x 1-4 and 9x 3-4 gearsets paid for.