9!'clipseDOHC's 1g DSM build

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I used the n/t for two and half rallyx seasons, but I retired it this year and switched to a fwd TSi. I have an awd, but there's just something fun about the fwd to me.

For the amount of abuse the n/t suffered, it held up very well. That includes probably 30 races and thousands of miles of highway driving (I don't have a trailer yet).The biggest thing I had to do was replace the OE shocks which expired by like the third race in the first season. Other than that, normal DSM maintenance was all it needed.

I used Firestone Winterforce tires on the OE wheels initially. They're designed for snow and are made of such soft rubber though. They were ground down to nothing by the end of the first season. Next, I did some 195/65-15 all-seasons. The smaller tire did well in the mud, but similar to the Winterforces, they're not designed for gravel and dirt.
Finally, I tried out a pair of Pirelli K6 gravel tires that one of the local guys had gotten a deal on cos he bought a bunch in bulk (I could only afford two). They were like night and day compared to the snows in terms of control. I tried them on the front and the back. I ended up leaving them up front and having the old snows in the rear, which made for awesome left foot braking turns The harder compound made for a much longer life too.

As for suspension, I kept it stock. If I could afford it, I'd go for the full-on Hotbits that two of the other DSM guys have. It's pricey, but I think they're able to rebuild the shocks instead of getting a whole new setup, so after a while, it could pay for itself.

So comparing the N/T FWD to the Turbo FWD, what are your thoughts? I know on mine I had way too much power. I feel I would have been just as fast around the course with a N/T. Keep in mind my power to weight ratio is a bit higher then stock ~320 to the wheels and ~2100 lbs. I'm hoping less boost and better tires will help.

I'm currently trying to find some used gravel tires. I think I'll hold out instead of giving up and getting winters since they make that much of a difference. Do you e-brake yours? I found that to work quite well and surprisingly controllable.

 

[Dhan]

So comparing the N/T FWD to the Turbo FWD, what are your thoughts? I know on mine I had way too much power. I feel I would have been just as fast around the course with a N/T. Keep in mind my power to weight ratio is a bit higher then stock ~320 to the wheels and ~2100 lbs. I'm hoping less boost and better tires will help.

2100 lbs. and 320hp My TSi is stripped out and stock, except for the Supra SMIC and the small 16g (kept at 10psi) and I find it to be too much power at times. I'm still kind of on the fence with the n/t versus turbo DSM in rallyx.
I could break the tires loose with the n/t easily, but there are straightaways where I feel the turbo gives that perfect "omph" that the n/t didn't.
At the same time, I think a turbo's abilities on a FWD car are kind of wasted in rallyx. That added power probably doesn't translate to a huge overall difference. There are guys in little n/t Escorts and old civics that make great times because of skill and their car's lightweight.
A turbo does great in the AWDs of course, but AWD v. FWD is kind of an apples/oranges argument

I'm currently trying to find some used gravel tires. I think I'll hold out instead of giving up and getting winters since they make that much of a difference.

The other big problem with the winter tires is the bigger chance to de-bead them, where the tire comes off the rim. It happens with gravel tires too of course, but occurs a lot more with the winter tires. I'm assuming because their sidewall is so soft. Used gravels are definitely the way to go. That's my plan once this pair of gravels are done.

Btw, gravel tires in anything bigger than 15" are a bit of a challenge to find. 15" wheels are no problem for me cos I have the small OE brakes, but if you have big brakes (like the STIs and Evos do) prepare for some headaches.

Do you e-brake yours? I found that to work quite well and surprisingly controllable.

Actually not very often. Maybe cos I'm still not very good at judging speed and e-braking (even after all this time ). The cars at DirtFish had hydraulic e-brakes and let me tell you, that's the way to go! It was a pretty straight forward setup. Basically just hard brake lines to the handle.
I always find that e-braking slows me down too much though. I really struggle to maintain speed through the turns. However....

I left foot brake a lot. I learned that when you brake, the nose dives forward which puts weight on the wheels that steer. So while the steering improves, the rear wheels will slow or lock up and begin to slide around. It's a really nice feeling when you can get a FWD car to rotate around a corner in the dirt while maintaining speed.
It works better in AWD drive cars I think, but the effect is still carried over to FWDs. Of course your brakes are tortured, but it's a race car!

 

[1qkfwd]

Nathan another thing you could do is get a hot knife and sipe your own tires. Pretty much take a radial and give it the gravel tire type tread. The compound won't be the same but tread blocks will help.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

2100 lbs. and 320hp My TSi is stripped out and stock, except for the Supra SMIC and the small 16g (kept at 10psi) and I find it to be too much power at times. I'm still kind of on the fence with the n/t versus turbo DSM in rallyx.
I could break the tires loose with the n/t easily, but there are straightaways where I feel the turbo gives that perfect "omph" that the n/t didn't.
At the same time, I think a turbo's abilities on a FWD car are kind of wasted in rallyx. That added power probably doesn't translate to a huge overall difference. There are guys in little n/t Escorts and old civics that make great times because of skill and their car's lightweight.
A turbo does great in the AWDs of course, but AWD v. FWD is kind of an apples/oranges argument



The other big problem with the winter tires is the bigger chance to de-bead them, where the tire comes off the rim. It happens with gravel tires too of course, but occurs a lot more with the winter tires. I'm assuming because their sidewall is so soft. Used gravels are definitely the way to go. That's my plan once this pair of gravels are done.

Btw, gravel tires in anything bigger than 15" are a bit of a challenge to find. 15" wheels are no problem for me cos I have the small OE brakes, but if you have big brakes (like the STIs and Evos do) prepare for some headaches.



Actually not very often. Maybe cos I'm still not very good at judging speed and e-braking (even after all this time ). The cars at DirtFish had hydraulic e-brakes and let me tell you, that's the way to go! It was a pretty straight forward setup. Basically just hard brake lines to the handle.
I always find that e-braking slows me down too much though. I really struggle to maintain speed through the turns. However....

I left foot brake a lot. I learned that when you brake, the nose dives forward which puts weight on the wheels that steer. So while the steering improves, the rear wheels will slow or lock up and begin to slide around. It's a really nice feeling when you can get a FWD car to rotate around a corner in the dirt while maintaining speed.
It works better in AWD drive cars I think, but the effect is still carried over to FWDs. Of course your brakes are tortured, but it's a race car!

I picked up a set of 15x6" steel wheels, I also have the small n/a brakes so I can actually clear 13" rims. One thing I have learned from talking to guys, with streets or snow tires you need to run 40+ psi to keep from DBing. With the rally tires you can run normal pressures which should also translate in more traction (from the pressure, in addition to the design), which we turbo FWD guys obviously need!

For the e-brake, here is how I do it: approaching a turn I apply the brakes to shed speed, turn the wheel, work the e-brake and power out at the same time. Basically the ebrake gets the rear around while the front tires are pulling me out of the turn. So I don't use it to slow down, just to get the rotation. It seems to be working pretty good so far.

Nathan another thing you could do is get a hot knife and sipe your own tires. Pretty much take a radial and give it the gravel tire type tread. The compound won't be the same but tread blocks will help.

My street tires that I'm using are g-force t/a's which actually have pretty large lugs (for street tires anyway). I'm considering selling them once I get the rally tires, so I don't think I'll do any cutting at this point.

 

[Dhan]

For the e-brake, here is how I do it: approaching a turn I apply the brakes to shed speed, turn the wheel, work the e-brake and power out at the same time. Basically the ebrake gets the rear around while the front tires are pulling me out of the turn. So I don't use it to slow down, just to get the rotation. It seems to be working pretty good so far.

Gonna have to try that!

 

[Solar]

Both cars looking great! That is one hell of a build!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Both cars looking great! That is one hell of a build!

Thanks man! My next RallyX is next weekend, on the 25th

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I attended my 2nd rallyx yesterday in Tucson and placed 2nd out of 6 in my class, M2. I just realized that I placed 1st and my first rallyx and 2nd at my 2nd one. I hope the trend doesn't continue!!!

Here are a few pictures:

I'm still on street tires but I am hoping to find some rally tires, used or otherwise, before the next event which is in July.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Hey nate that looks like fun, never tried it.

 

[gofer]

I like that last picture Nate, wish I could have gotten that close. I had to work Saturday, I would have loved to make a surprise appearance in my 2g though.

Who'd you place 2nd to, that all out rally Focus?

 

[SBstar]

Great job Nathan! I'd say with some real rally rubber you'll improve even more!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Hey nate that looks like fun, never tried it.

Thanks! Yes, it sure is!

I like that last picture Nate, wish I could have gotten that close. I had to work Saturday, I would have loved to make a surprise appearance in my 2g though.

Who'd you place 2nd to, that all out rally Focus?

I still like the pics you took better! That would have been cool!

There were 5 cars, a '77 Datsun 280z, an '83 Toyota Celica rally car, an older BMW M3, the Ford Focus Rally car, and then my DSM. The Focus was still having coolant issues and blew off his radiator cap after two runs. Funny thing was that all the cars were trailered in except for the M3, and that was the one that won!

Great job Nathan! I'd say with some real rally rubber you'll improve even more!

I think so too! I've heard it's a night and day difference between streets and rally tires. Once I get up to speed I pretty much just keep it there. If I push the gas beyond 1/4 throttle it just spins, if I push the brakes it just slides, . I keep it at a pretty constant speed and use the ebrake the get rotation. Not ideal but its working!

 

[leepen]

Great thread ...awesome build

 

[gofer]

There were 5 cars, a '77 Datsun 280z, an '83 Toyota Celica rally car, an older BMW M3, the Ford Focus Rally car, and then my DSM. The Focus was still having coolant issues and blew off his radiator cap after two runs. Funny thing was that all the cars were trailered in except for the M3, and that was the one that won!

Gottcha. I would have thought the Datsun, BMW, and Celica were in a different class because they're RWD but from the way it sounds your 2WD modified? Now that you mention it though I remember you saying there were only 4 classes - 2WD stock, AWD stock, 2WD modified, and AWD modified. That sucks.

It looks like that M3 had rally tires under it so he came prepared and I can't believe you put up better times than that Celica if it was in the same class. That thing looked like it came from one of Gran Turismo's Rally racing classes.

Nice work man. Taking 2nd place in that crowd of cars, judging by the pictures of them, was no easy task.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Gottcha. I would have thought the Datsun, BMW, and Celica were in a different class because they're RWD but from the way it sounds your 2WD modified? Now that you mention it though I remember you saying there were only 4 classes - 2WD stock, AWD stock, 2WD modified, and AWD modified. That sucks.

It looks like that M3 had rally tires under it so he came prepared and I can't believe you put up better times than that Celica if it was in the same class. That thing looked like it came from one of Gran Turismo's Rally racing classes.

Nice work man. Taking 2nd place in that crowd of cars, judging by the pictures of them, was no easy task.

Yeah, FWD/RWD doesn't matter, its just 2wd. Exactly, S2, S4, M2, & M4 are the only classes they run in Tucson. All of the other guys in my class had either rally tires or truck tires. That Celica looked awesome for sure! It reminded me a Safari Rally vehicle. Here are some action shots of the other guys in my class (the Celica had 2 drivers).

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I was quite happy to see my car featured on the AZ Rally Groups Homepage! After seeing that I was able to find 2 more amazing pictures of my car from the first RallyX that I had to post because they are just so awesome!! Thanks to MineerPhoto for taking the pictures!!

 

[Bud92gsx]

Nate are those Avenger wheels?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Nate are those Avenger wheels?

They sure are. I've been running them for probably about 8 years. I will soon be letting them go as I don't plan on needing street tires anymore. It will either be on gravel rally tires or drag slicks from now on.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I never thought of using avenger wheels untill right now.I got a set in storage,And they are wider than stock.I might have to steal that idea.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I never thought of using avenger wheels untill right now.I got a set in storage,And they are wider than stock.I might have to steal that idea.

I don't think they are any wider, mine are 17x6.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I could have sworn the tires on my avenger rims were at least 7 wide.

Makes me want to go to storage and prove myself wrong.Did I just say prove myself wrong.I must be not feeling good today.

 

[TimelessDSM]

living legend

 

[Alan11]

I just read this thing all over again. I insist when can i see the car again. Are we having a meet this year??

 

[talonESturbo]

yea are we having a meet this year??

 

[Roberti 2G]

I just spent an hour reading through the first page! I love it. I am located up at HAFB in NM, glad to see there is some DSM love close bye. Hopefully when I get back from my deployment I might run into you guys at the track one day. Let me know when you guys have meets and ill try to make it down there that would be really cool.