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1G Best source for replacement knock sensor?

Posted by benspilk09, Sep 16, 2019

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  1. Jan

    Jan Probationary Member

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    Joined Mar 14, 2016
    Sulejów (Poland), Europe
    As I said I won't be driving much in the upcoming days, but I will let you know if I notice anything interesting.
    I've also just called an automotive electronical engineer I've found nearby. He's currently sick but he said he will compare those sensors for me when he gets better. I just have to persuade a friend to lend me his working KS for a couple of days...
    I know it looks almost too good to be true but think about it... what are the chances, that 10 years after Mitsubishi stopped using this part in their cars they would design a new one for Mazda, looking exactly the same but with other electrical characteristics? We know that this design is faulty (due to leaking silicone or resin or whatever that filling is). I suspect that if they were to design something different they would rather use some solid body type sensor, like in the 2G. I think this is exactly the same part. My hopes are very high but to be honest I'm known to be overly optimistic.
     

    208  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  2. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    920
    484
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    As much as I know many Suzuki kei cars and some Mazda have a Mitsubishi supplied 1G style knock sensor (with a Mitsubishi sticker). But all of them are body ground type.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 2K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  3. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    6,687
    2,925
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    @DSMPT , would that explain the shield wire that wasn't exposed but he found and wired in like our mitsu's? Just wondering your thoughts.
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    838  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  14  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  4. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    484
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    @1990TSIAWDTALON Marty, I am not so sure. maybe due to the difference on the filter side/circuit in ECU. I just wanted to give him more choices for sensors since he mentioned that it's hard to find it in Europe. because I am interested in this, too. since I couldn't make this before.

    First of all, I didn't proof anything and I could be very wrong. And I can't tell why or how. It's just speaking of my thoughts and some experience. I didn't go deep but I planned the same before.
    But I had a big concern and I wanted to make it clear but I couldn't was, since this is not a latest donut style sensor, the piezo plate in the sensor could be different depending on the cylinder diameter or target knock frequency range. In case if it's different, even the appearance is the same and even if I would make the circuit the same as DSM to avoid to get the cel, there would be possibility that it wouldn't be detecting knock properly. (The sensor I had was from a Suzuki kei turbo car that has 68mm cylinders. The same as the one in the pic).
    I couldn't make sure about the things like above, plus I went AEM EMS and sold all 1g sensors, so the plan went fade-out about 10 years ago. Again, I didn't spend much time for this and I confirmed nothing.

    Suzuki Knock Sensor.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020

    Drag Race Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 2K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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    Jan and 1990TSIAWDTALON like this.
  5. benspilk09

    benspilk09 Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 16, 2010
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    It looks like the SMP sensors are extinct now. I was about ready to try one.

    I am also worried about the frequency range the sensor is designed to detect.

    Does anyone have a "new" OE DSM knock sensor to pull numbers off of? Several of the Mazda parts have mitsubishi tags on the sensor and on the plug. I'm wondering if we can find a match for the sensor that way.

    The one I'm looking at now is a 2 wire plug, it fits a 90-91 Mazda 929 with the 3.0 V6. Standard Motor Part # KS133

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-ks133

    On the sensor body there is a mitsubishi part number

    JE50 E1T14871 4127

    Edit: I found a photo of a DSM sensor and of course the numbers are all different. Who knows what they actually mean though. I sent NTK an email asking if the miata and mitsu sensors are functionally the same, hopefully they can respond. The '00-05 miata sensor is a 2 wire plug, just like the DSM, and that engine uses an iron block.

    Another possibility is a 1st gen Mazda MX6 or Ford Probe GT. They were turbocharged, from the same era as a 1G DSM, and use an identical knock sensor. Surely they are tuned the same.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020

    Street Build 364  4

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  6. mooserage

    mooserage Probationary Member

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    Joined Dec 28, 2006
    Seattle, Washington
    Great question, testing would likely take the form of tapping the block to see if I can get any readings with the engine off and then taking similar pulls and comparing results. To your point, its not very scientific, ideally someone with instruments to measure the filtered frequencies, or confirmation from any of the manufacturers would be the best method.

    Anyway, I do have the Miata sensor, I made a plug n play harness so I don't have to destroy and wiring. Biggest problem now is getting it all back on the road to test it.

    I did the same thing with the part# for the Miata part, but didn't find anything linking it with the 1G sensor. Unfortunately it seems like Mitsubishi just did their own thing with their own part numbers.
     
  7. NWHTanK

    NWHTanK Proven Member

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    Odessa, Missouri
    Not to sound like a dumb ass, but what about Hyundai since they used the 4g63 also.
     

    2K  7

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. benspilk09

    benspilk09 Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 16, 2010
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Excellent news everyone

    Remember the late 80's Mirage turbo that used the 4G61T?

    It supposedly uses the same sensor, just a different length wire. They're supposedly interchangeable. Rockauto still has these NTK sensors in stock, part number ID0263.

    I just ordered mine, now don't you jerks hoard all of them ROFL

    Edit: the old Dodge/Mitsubishi Colt Turbo also appears to use that sensor, but with an older style plug. NTK brand sensors for those are also in stock
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020

    Street Build 364  4

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  9. mooserage

    mooserage Probationary Member

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    Joined Dec 28, 2006
    Seattle, Washington
    Fascinating if true! Did you find some info that confirmed its the same sensor with just a different length of wire?
     
  10. curt-s

    curt-s Proven Member

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    Winterville, MB, Canada
    rockauto has the same part # for the 1990 galant 2.0L which was a 4g63.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  11. benspilk09

    benspilk09 Proven Member

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    Little Rock, Arkansas
    I came across a thread on 4G61t.org where someone was asking about the correct knock sensor for their application, and they said to use a 4G63 sensor since at the time they were more common.

    Its the same plug. Since the 4G61 is basically just a de-stroked 4G63, they share most ancillary components and I'd be shocked if they actually changed that sensor.

    I'm comfortable being a guinea pig here, rather than spending $80 on a sensor for a 10 year newer mazda.
     

    Street Build 364  4

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  12. jrm-1992talon

    jrm-1992talon Probationary Member

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    Joined Jan 24, 2010
    Ft. Riley, Kansas
    Rockauto only had one remaining (not sure if that's true or just a marketing tactic) so I ordered it today as well. I'll install it as soon as I get it and let you guys know if my CEL goes away. It's on now because I used to run a 4G ecu and evoscan with a 2g knock sensor but recently switched back to a 1g ECMlink.

    rockauto knocksensor dsm.jpg ntk front.png
     

    286  0

    1992 Eagle Talon N/T
    · 1G DSM
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  13. ist dwa

    ist dwa Proven Member

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    Joined Nov 5, 2009
    Centerville, Ohio
    Silly question, has anyone ever just filled in the knock sensor where the black goo is with urathane?
     

    Street Build 198  5

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  14. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Those sensors work fine, I have 2 spares and one on my car.
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    838  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  14  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. hupdmbl

    hupdmbl Probationary Member

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    Joined Jun 26, 2006
    Mokelumne Hill, California
    I was able to order a knock sensor from Auto Zone for my 1990 Talon TSi made by Santech PN KS0120 and cost $109 (the Duralast was not available). After I installed it, it wouldn't plug in because the connector was different. looks like they used the same connector that goes to my EGR temp sensor instead of the Knock sensor connector. I filed down the two ridges that kept it from plugging in and hooked it up. I got a check engine light. Maybe its pinned backwards. I plan to swap them and see if it operates correctly.
     
  16. Dericsh

    Dericsh Supporting Member

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    Joined Nov 25, 2002
    Pearl River, Louisiana
    After realizing I missed out on the ID0208, I started doing some digging and found a thread on the galantvr4 forum that said MD131681 looked like it was compatible in ASA. The pictures look to me like it’s the same and even the sticker on the plug appears to have the same numbers from what I can tell.

    I’m a double whammy of no help here because my car is in the beginning of a rebuild and hasn’t run in about a year. So I can’t easily just test it for everyone. Also I’ve not gotten a chance to get familiar with caps or asa or whatever, so could someone confirm that the think this will work?

    Seems to be a good bit of availability on this part number on various marketplaces.

    EDIT: I see on rockauto they have the ID0263 previously mentioned under that Mitsubishi part number, so it should work! I’m gonna order one.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 27, 2020

    Street Build 351  2

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  17. benspilk09

    benspilk09 Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 16, 2010
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    I got around to installing the Mirage knock sensor in my talon. So far it appears to be working. No CEL and i still get random knock events around 2500rpm in vacuum like my OE sensor would pick up, though they happen much less frequently.

    Here are a few comparison pictures. As you can see it has the Mitsu tag even though it's NTK. It plugs right in, though the wire is about 1" shorter. You can't clip the connector to the intake manifold brace due to that, but oh well.
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 364  4

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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    Dericsh likes this.
  18. Dericsh

    Dericsh Supporting Member

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    Joined Nov 25, 2002
    Pearl River, Louisiana
    thanks for the update!
     

    Street Build 351  2

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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