My compound turbo set-up

[gixrman]

yup
YouTube - Sound Performance Quick Spool Valve testing and results!!!

My only concern with that system is thats its no good for a true twin scrool (dividded) manifold. And this is the whole point of running a twin scroll setup Open T4 setup yes, as the exhuast is redirected to one flute and its not a smooth transistion but at low RPM's that may not matter as much. And maybe it just me but I watched that clip several times and could not hear a difference.
Twin Scroll Turbo System Design - Modified Magazine
Twin Scroll Turbo System Design - Modified Magazine
Of coarse then there is VGT setups.
Google Image Result for http://mecanicavirtual.iespana.es/imagesturbo/turbo-gv-esquema2.jpg

 

[99gst_racer]

Nice intake pipe

I was thinking the same thing.

If I didn't have a tial housing on my GT42 I would try out that SP spool valve as it nets similar gains without all the extra stuff. Looks like it def ended up being worth it to me.

I'd have to see some back-to-back test results on a smaller displacement engine to be a true believer of that SP thingamabobber. I don't doubt that it works to some degree, but I'd rather see datalog data than a video on the rollers. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the gains are far less noticeable on an engine as small as the 4G. In any event, I'd love to toy around with one if they weren't so expensive.

A DSMer on another forum recently shared his spool numbers with me. 2.0L with a 4202R on E85.

10psi @ 4600RPM
20psi @ 5300RPM
30psi @ 5700RPM
40psi @ 6000RPM
46psi @ 6200RPM

Although I'm impressed with these spool numbers, I'm still hitting 40 PSI on my set-up about 200 RPMs before he hits 10 PSI. That's a HUGE difference - especially how that registers on the torque band. And I'd be seriously amazed if that SP valve was able to make up this kind of difference.

 

[jdsoza]

HOLY FREAKING CRAP!!! Dude this is like the most awesome turbo setup i have ever seen! This beats the Intense Motorsports Tri-Turbo Supra! Now that you have done it, im sure many more are going to follow, i think im going to be one of them . Good build and thanks to you, i have to start saving more money because i may want to try this!

 

[Slippi84]

Come on Matt I know your not saying because you didn't "hear" a difference it didn't make one . Your a pro don't talk silly hahaha. Your right though I too would have to see something on a smaller engine running big boost before I dropped like 1k at least to switch over to that kind of setup. They told me they hadn't had any concrete big boost data yet either which is a worry but I can tell you from talking to them that they are stand up guys who do good business. Instead of going yeah come on it's great buy it now they told me straight up what it was and that it may just not be for me as in the end top end flow will be less with this than a open or divided setup because of the flapper taking up space.

 

[endeffect0]

I'm still hitting 40 PSI on my set-up about 200 RPMs before he hits 10 PSI.

Well that just about sums up this thread now doesn't it.

Two questions.
You mentioned that you will be attempting a second setup this winter. What's a rough outline for that plan if you dont mind me asking?
what changes are in store, will it be on this car or a track dedicated one, ect.

Also, in your advising of the member of the 2.0 genesis forum you recommended the larger turbo housing. at this point are you using some rough formula to determine the corresponding turbo sizes or are we still in the realm of the scientific guess.


.... me wants data when you have some to share.

 

[99gst_racer]

Two questions.
You mentioned that you will be attempting a second setup this winter. What's a rough outline for that plan if you dont mind me asking?
what changes are in store, will it be on this car or a track dedicated one, ect.

I do plan to build another compound system sometime this coming fall/winter. Now that I know how well compounding works, I don't have a problem with spending a bit more money this time around and optimizing the design. I plan to start from scratch and build a topmount sch-10 manifold for the primary turbo. Getting the primary turbo up higher will give me much more room down low for the secondary turbo and will allow me to configure the turbos using less pipe by mounting the turbine housings closer to each other.

As it stands, I think I'm going to use an EVO9 16G with the 10.5 cm turbine housing as the primary turbo, and a GT35r with a Tial turbine housing as the secondary turbo. I may change my mind on turbo selection later this year, but that's where I'mm sitting right now. I'm not really aiming to make much more power than I currently am, but I'd like to try to do it even more efficiently yet, and I believe I can pull that off with this new planned configuration. I also think I can spool even quicker yet if I use a ball bearing secondary turbo.

Also, in your advising of the member of the 2.0 genesis forum you recommended the larger turbo housing. at this point are you using some rough formula to determine the corresponding turbo sizes or are we still in the realm of the scientific guess.

.... me wants data when you have some to share.

There are no solid formulas that I know of, so I would consider that bit of advice to be a scientific guess - a very good scientific guestimation, though.

I'll share a datalog along with my dyno sheet as soon as I can get it on the rollers.

 

[hurricanecris24]

can i call dibbs on your current setup

 

[99gst_racer]

can i call dibbs on your current setup

Sure, as long as you got the cash.

In all honesty, I had planned to put it up for sale very soon, just to get the word spread and get some early exposure. But I didn't plan to remove it from the car and mail it to the purchaser until right after the Shootout in August.

 

[hurricanecris24]

pm me a price. i have been thinking bout it the past week ### i need a turbo for my build and i have been following your compound setup till day 1 and like how it works . it would be nice if you made a tech on how it all works and what is needed to install. its hard to follow the information with it all scrabbled in all the pages

 

[RipperXX]

I 2nd this ^. I understood is as I read the whole thing a while back. But now I have forgot half of it .

 

[EclipticalGS]

Well, one thing to know about how a compound turbo works, its simply E=mc^2...

Lol, nice build Paul. Replacement for Displacement

 

[LD25Delta9]

Hey I pm'd you a while back about possibly using a compound setup. I'm going with a little bit different approach than I had originally anticipated. What would you think of a Garett M30 for the feeder and a t70 for the biggun? I can get you compressor specs if that will help. It will take a day or two with the Garrett as it's from an old 80's Turbo Thunderchicken. I want to run 30 psi....on a built 420a...RWD...With a Supra trans....and GSX 4 bolt LSD rear, if possible...as a daily...I gotta crawl with a somewhat stock setup before I can walk with a full cage and 4 link in the rear.

 

[Tony20tgen]

any updates?? I'm getting mine tuned friday !

 

[99gst_racer]

any updates?? I'm getting mine tuned friday !

None yet. I just finally got my IAT sensor working, and I just started working on the tune yesterday. My steering rack bit the bullet over 4th of July weekend, so I haven't been driving the car much at all. I need to figure out if I still want to keep power steering or not. Hopefully I'll have the car back on it's feet in about a week. It would have been fixed already if I wasn't getting jerked around by a guy that I'm trying to buy a replacement rack from.

Good luck tomorrow. I'll check out your thread this weekend to see how everything went.

 

[e85_4g63]

Any updates Paul? since the shootout is all but over for this year?.. Dyno numbers? Track times, did you decide to sell or keep the compound setup?

 

[SrKegler]

Nice setup. I'm curious about your braces though. That seems like a lot of weight for those little manifold studs to bear.

 

[99gst_racer]

Any updates Paul? since the shootout is all but over for this year?.. Dyno numbers? Track times, did you decide to sell or keep the compound setup?

No real updates. I did get the meth injection working but haven't really messed with nozzle sizes or anything like that yet. The compound set-up is going to be sold and I'll build another version of it this fall/winter. But before I sell it (within the next few weeks), I will get it on the dyno and I'll run it at my local track. I would have had some updates by now had it not been down for a month with P/S issues.

Nice setup. I'm curious about your braces though. That seems like a lot of weight for those little manifold studs to bear.

Thanks. Yeah, those studs seem to be holding the weight just fine. But I have plans to brace the next set-up to the block just in case.

 

[snowborder714]

You have any nicer looking logs for me?

 

[91stocker]

I was thinking the same thing.


I'd have to see some back-to-back test results on a smaller displacement engine to be a true believer of that SP thingamabobber. I don't doubt that it works to some degree, but I'd rather see datalog data than a video on the rollers. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the gains are far less noticeable on an engine as small as the 4G. In any event, I'd love to toy around with one if they weren't so expensive.

A DSMer on another forum recently shared his spool numbers with me. 2.0L with a 4202R on E85.

10psi @ 4600RPM
20psi @ 5300RPM
30psi @ 5700RPM
40psi @ 6000RPM
46psi @ 6200RPM

Although I'm impressed with these spool numbers, I'm still hitting 40 PSI on my set-up about 200 RPMs before he hits 10 PSI. That's a HUGE difference - especially how that registers on the torque band. And I'd be seriously amazed if that SP valve was able to make up this kind of difference.

Im sorry ive read all 20 pages and i just dont see a use for the compound set up. Unless your towing your track car with this car i dont see how any of that ^^ matters at all. Its not like we need to roll into power like semi's hauling a load. Down shift or break boost on a roll and your there. Im not dissing your ride at all. I seen it at shootout this year, very clean . Im just trying to understand why the project hasnt been dropped yet for a larger single. I mean really dont you just have a slow spooling 16g? Again im not dissing on anything in this thread just trying to wrap my head around it i guess.

 

[FastTSiAWD]

Im sorry ive read all 20 pages and i just dont see a use for the compound set up. Unless your towing your track car with this car i dont see how any of that ^^ matters at all. Its not like we need to roll into power like semi's hauling a load. Down shift or break boost on a roll and your there. Im not dissing your ride at all. I seen it at shootout this year, very clean . Im just trying to understand why the project hasnt been dropped yet for a larger single. I mean really dont you just have a slow spooling 16g? Again im not dissing on anything in this thread just trying to wrap my head around it i guess.

40psi by 4400 instead of 6k That opens your power band up A LOT. And gives you the acceleration of a crotch rocket . Instead of your power band from 4600-4800 up, it's from 2500 ish up . I'm doing a compound turbo set up on mine as well, just because it's going to be a street car and I want that nice wide power band and low end power

 

[dsm-onster]

Some cant get past their own personal opinion .

He could get a single the size of an hx80 to spool within the range of his cam and transmission operation. That is the point. Yes. he needs a larger primary turbo. Faster spool than a gt42r and MUCH bigger. I like that. you may not, but it is what it is.

But also with his current large turbo. He could run a HUGE hotside and greatly increase his total VE at the "meager" power levels an fpred (60-1) compressor flows. He does have such a hotside.

Having fast spool is a street thing. VERY large single turbo hotsides are a race track thing. Very fast spool of very large hotsides is an EVERYthing.

. . . Just think! Paul could still swap in a stroker kit.

 

[91stocker]

What are the current numbers on that set up?

 

[Calan]

... I mean really dont you just have a slow spooling 16g?

More like a 16G that flows 75 lbs/min.

I'm betting that one of Paul's biggest motivations is that nobody else has done it (at least not to that extent). He battled through it, learned a crapload along the way, and ended up with something that is not only extremely unique, but just plain bad-ass performance-wise as well.

Can't wait to see what he has up his sleeve for version 2.

Just think! Paul could still swap in a stroker kit.

Holy hell... this thing on a stroker?

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes, this setup does NOT get choked up by the 16g. It flows MUCH more than any 16g ever has. In the relm of typical 60-1 flow levels actually. And it spools mcuh closer to a 16g than a 60-1 with a t4 hotside, that's for sure.

 

[91stocker]

75lbs/min on a 60-1? That seems pretty generous. I thought the 60-1 maxed around 60lbs/min.

750whp at 4k would be pretty damn impressive. I dont know if i would believe it really. Has this car seen the dyno yet?