Holset Turbos, PART 3

[JWoodley]

Can't wait to see the dyno results. Please post when finished.

I should have mine within the next 10-14 days.

Mods as follows:
HX40 w/ BEP housing and internal gate
FP Race Mani
FP 4" Intake
GM MAFT setup
Aeromotive FPR
FIC 850cc
Wally 255HP
3" turboback
DSMLink

I'm debating a set of BC 272s or 280s. Any opinions on how the 280s would perform with a stock 2G intake manifold? I'll be switching to 1G TB soon.

I don't know how either will effect spool but I'd like to keep it around the 4k range on the stock 7bolt 2.0.

 

[420a-t]

Well, I figure I'll hop on the bandwagon. Hope to get mine up and running in the next two weeks.

H1E With .55 BEP mitsu housing custom internal gate
JMF SMIM
1g TB
Apexi skyline IC
Meth injection
180 pump
FIC 660's
2.5" downpipe with cutout going through front bumper, then 3" (no cat)
DSMLink
FP 4" intake
comp 101100/101200 cams
BC springs
ported 2g mani
fully built auto tranny
stock 7 bolt bottom end
and I'm sure some custom leaks of some kind

Hoping to see 11's...we'll see sson enough.

 

[420a-t]

I should have mine within the next 10-14 days.

Mods as follows:
HX40 w/ BEP housing and internal gate
FP Race Mani
FP 4" Intake
GM MAFT setup
Aeromotive FPR
FIC 850cc
Wally 255HP
3" turboback
DSMLink

I'm debating a set of BC 272s or 280s. Any opinions on how the 280s would perform with a stock 2G intake manifold? I'll be switching to 1G TB soon.

I don't know how either will effect spool but I'd like to keep it around the 4k range on the stock 7bolt 2.0.

I think 280's would be overkill on a stock 2g mani. At least you know where your restriction is. Think of it this way, I've seen a combo of 272's get in the 9's- deep in the 9's. The bigger the cams, the more lag. Ask dsm-onster, from what I've seen, he's pretty happy with his 272's (well, fp2x's) and holset combo.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm interested in your setup very much Josh. Since I have the same h1e you have from the same ebay vendor in my living room. You payed $25 less than I did . I'm wondering whether or not to swap that wheel onto my h1c or just move to that whole turbo once I max out my h1c.

Based on the h1e compressor map, you should get some 6-bolt internals and an injector upgrade to really see the turbo to the end.

I don't know how either will effect spool but I'd like to keep it around the 4k range on the stock 7bolt 2.0.

What is your hp goal? I'd get a SMIM. It would cost the same as 280s and the springs required. And I think you'd see more power under the curve and likely up top.

Save your cam upgrade for after you get your 4g64 finished.

 

[JWoodley]

I'm interested in your setup very much Josh. Since I have the same h1e you have from the same ebay vendor in my living room. You payed $25 less than I did . I'm wondering whether or not to swap that wheel onto my h1c or just move to that whole turbo once I max out my h1c.

Based on the h1e compressor map, you should get some 6-bolt internals and an injector upgrade to really see the turbo to the end.


What is your hp goal? I'd get a SMIM. It would cost the same as 280s and the springs required. And I think you'd see more power under the curve and likely up top.

Save your cam upgrade for after you get your 4g64 finished.

I'd like to make a solid 400-430awhp on the stock bottom end. Of course the car will not see these power levels on a daily basis.

I've looked into SMIM vs. cams and for my goals/mods I believe the SMIM would net a better overall curve, but I do plan on building a 1G head this summer so I'd rather not buy parts twice (2G flanged SMIM, then 1G flanged). I think I'll wait on both pieces and just try to dial in the setup first.

I'll need something to keep my busy this summer anyways.

I'll do my best to get pictures of the build as well as some video of the dyno.

 

[420a-t]

Well, My compressor cover was just too big for a 1g waterpipe (on my car at least). So, I welded the hole shut where the cover was hitting and re-welded a nipple closer to the waterpipe for my stock oil cooler. We'll see how everything fits in a couple days.

 

[Maglin]

Jwoodley. If you have something like DSMlink or a better EMS you can see 400 WHP with a stock longblock. I never got my car dyno'd with the HX35 but I was running 32 PSI on 91 octane with 13* total advance @ 7,000 RPM and 11.5:1 AFR. I raced my buddy's 400 HP race car (which was about 300 lbs. lighter than me) and we pretty much was neck and neck. He had me by just over a car after about 1/4 mile. I also was on a very rough tune and a new HG. (the HG was only on the car maybe 12 hours by that time)

When I switched to E85 for fuel it was a total different world. I was able to lean out to 11.8:1 and added 5* of timing on pretty much the whole boost curve. I was considerably faster. Again no dyno by my buddie's and mine but dyno said at least 30+ more HP. My front tires would almost not touch the ground when I launched and it would spin all through 1st, and the top of 2nd and 3rd on E85.

 

[dsm-onster]

My front tires would almost not touch the ground when I launched and it would spin all through 1st, and the top of 2nd and 3rd on E85.

So much for awd traction . How fast was your spool? I keep forgetting what you posted. It would be good to note one more time since so many are PMing and asking for the spool performance of the hx35.

32 psi with pump gas and double digit timing! (Glorious chorus singing in the background)

 

[fwdeclipse]

Jwoodley. If you have something like DSMlink or a better EMS you can see 400 WHP with a stock longblock. I never got my car dyno'd with the HX35 but I was running 32 PSI on 91 octane with 13* total advance @ 7,000 RPM and 11.5:1 AFR. I raced my buddy's 400 HP race car (which was about 300 lbs. lighter than me) and we pretty much was neck and neck. He had me by just over a car after about 1/4 mile. I also was on a very rough tune and a new HG. (the HG was only on the car maybe 12 hours by that time)

When I switched to E85 for fuel it was a total different world. I was able to lean out to 11.8:1 and added 5* of timing on pretty much the whole boost curve. I was considerably faster. Again no dyno by my buddie's and mine but dyno said at least 30+ more HP. My front tires would almost not touch the ground when I launched and it would spin all through 1st, and the top of 2nd and 3rd on E85.

Which holset was this exactly I keep my eye open on ebay but there is so many. Is it the h1e everyone is having the luck with. I would like to try one of these if I can get it at a decent price. I am seeing alot of hx35w for sale. Like this one eBay Motors: Holset HX35 turbo Cummins (item 230235252363 end time Mar-31-08 18:30:00 PDT)

 

[420a-t]

eBay Motors: New Holset 3535870 WH1E Turbocharger (item 330220627761 end time Apr-16-08 13:59:13 PDT)

I had a buddy offer him 250 not including shipping and he accepted that offer. I got mine for 275 not including shipping.

 

[Maglin]

It was a HX35 in a BEP Mitsu housing. I hated the hot side. Was running it off a 2G ported manifold. Not optimum but it worked. Also was running a EPROM ECU at the time with my Ostrich running double width maps and some stuff that I built to make it easy for me to tune on the fly.

It would reach 15 PSI at around 3200-3400ish if I recall correctly. And it was at 32 PSI @ 3800. It was pretty crazy but I hated how fast it spooled. I actually wanted spool above 4500 RPM's. It's part of the reason why I was having traction issues along with a crappy suspension set-up that is getting fixed this summer. When I was running Michelin Piliot's it was horrible. I got some new Dunlop FM901's and my 3rd gear traction issues almost completely vanished.

As for the turbo setup it was fairly cheap really. But the fuel and PCM set-up was pretty pricey. Next time my car starts it will have a SMIM, Schear top mount exhaust manifold, Staged injection and a few more goodies along with a built motor. The only thing I can't decide on is if I want to run with a FMIC or just straight pipe to the intake and run straight methanol.

 

[selmerguy]

eBay Motors: New Holset 3535870 WH1E Turbocharger (item 330220627761 end time Apr-16-08 13:59:13 PDT)

I had a buddy offer him 250 not including shipping and he accepted that offer. I got mine for 275 not including shipping.

That pic of the turbo does not look like it would fit a t3 exhaust manifold. Is that just the pic? Looks square not like a rectangle.

 

[JWoodley]

Guys I need to know the bolt size for the oil return ASAP. If someone could PM or email me the size that would be awesome! I also need to know what size gasket those of you with the BEP housing. 7cm? Custom?

I'm using a 1/2 spacer from RRE to keep from messing with the water pipe.



I do have DSMLink. I'll update my mods list tonight.

 

[IPT]

Oil oulet on the turbo should be 3/8-16 thread.

 

[dsm-onster]

That pic of the turbo does not look like it would fit a t3 exhaust manifold. Is that just the pic? Looks square not like a rectangle.

A wh1e, h1e, and hx40 is t4 flanged. The h1c, wh1c, and hx35 is t3 flanged.


JWoodley, so the turbo does clear everything in a 2g just fine with a turbo/manifold spacer. That's great. Can you take pics?

Jeremiah do you mean methanol as a fuel or as secondary injection? I'd run methanol instead of gas if it were MY dedicated track car with no intercooler. Bigger injectors than 1000cc flow. With the hx52 more like 2 or 3 sets of 1000cc injectors with pure meth as fuel. The FFWD DKS3 cams you have spooled the hx35 to 32psi by 3800rpms? Or was that stock cams?

 

[JWoodley]

A wh1e, h1e, and hx40 is t4 flanged. The h1c, wh1c, and hx35 is t3 flanged.


JWoodley, so the turbo does clear everything in a 2g just fine with a turbo/manifold spacer. That's great. Can you take pics?

I don't think I'll be able to get pictures today, but I might be able to. I have a trip this weekend, but if it doesn't workout then I'll have them for sure.

I went with the spacer, longer head to mani studs (M8x1.25 all thread from Fastenal cut to length by yours truly), and slimlines. I've got everything mounted up, just trying to figure out how I want to do my LICP. The SSAC comes with a piece that is 2" to 2.5" but I'd rather have a full 2.5. What are you guys using to come off of the compressor? 90* elbow?

I'm not sure what kinda clearance issues the front motor mount will present, but I'll find out soon enough.


EDIT: Does anyone have a definitive size on the oil return bolts for the turbo? I've heard M8x1.25, 3/8-16, and possibly M10x1.25. If I don't get any definite answers I'll be sure to post up exactly what it is and maybe we can start a sticky thread for bolt sizes and whatnot.

 

[selmerguy]

A wh1e, h1e, and hx40 is t4 flanged. The h1c, wh1c, and hx35 is t3 flanged. QUOTE]

Wow it all makes since now. I had no clue that the hx-40 and its older brother were t4 flanged. Thank you for doing all this research and putting all this information into these threads. This is making my life and part buying much easier.

 

[dsm-onster]

I went with the spacer, longer head to mani studs (M8x1.25 all thread from Fastenal cut to length by yours truly), and slimlines. I've got everything mounted up, just trying to figure out how I want to do my LICP. The SSAC comes with a piece that is 2" to 2.5" but I'd rather have a full 2.5. What are you guys using to come off of the compressor? 90* elbow?

I'm not sure what kinda clearance issues the front motor mount will present, but I'll find out soon enough.

I thought you went with a turbo-to-manifold spacer ??? (EDIT: Oh, nope did mention a head-to-manifold spacer.) You could have done that and not pushed the turbo closer to the fan. You have a 2g right? So your front motor mount (rollstop) will actually be on the tranny not the motor. Your turbo can go down without hitting anything unlike a 1g which has the mount on the engine which is closer to the turbo. . .

Selmerguy, I accept donations. It's no problem. It's good to see interest in these turbos again. The DSM community is so stubborn to change. Partly because MHI turbos are so durable and flow very well for 99% of us. Great turbochargers! But, I really think a 20g is so expensive simply because of the typical dsmer bullheaded attitude, "Nothing works but what has worked."

10 who've posted so far recently in this thread, are either installing, going to install, or have installed a holset. And 10 more who're kicking around the idea. I and those guys need some track/dyno time .

 

[JWoodley]

I thought you went with a turbo-to-manifold spacer ??? (EDIT: Oh, nope did mention a head-to-manifold spacer.) You could have done that and not pushed the turbo closer to the fan. You have a 2g right? So your front motor mount (rollstop) will actually be on the tranny not the motor. Your turbo can go down without hitting anything unlike a 1g which has the mount on the engine which is closer to the turbo. . .


....I and those guys need some track/dyno time .

I have the stock 2G radiator and slimlines. I have no clearance issues there. =) There is also no issue with the front motor mount in regards to turbo outlet and IC piping. Plenty of room. Right now I'm running a 90* 4ply silicone elbow to my LICP. However this summer when I have some time and more dough I'm gonna snag a Turbonetics 2.5" weld on elbow and Vband clamp to go with the Vband junk on the turbo already.

Gonna go like this: outlet vband to vband welded onto T-netics elbow welded to lower IC pipe

Should be perfect. That way I can get rid of the weak spot (read: silicone coupler on outlet). I really don't feel like putting it back on or replacing it when it blows off/out.

I've got to snag a VCE to dyno the car. I'm still in the learning phase with DSMLink so I'll be needing guidance there.

Depending on how my funds sit after I get her complete, I might be snagging a wideband. Still undecided on which one yet. Oh yea, and a AEM 5bar MAP.

 

[selmerguy]

Ok I bought a used h1c for 130 shipped. It has alot of miles so it might need a rebuild. Either was a 70 dollar rebuild kit will take care of that. So I am in. I will be home on leave in a little more than a month. I am in now for sure.

 

[420a-t]

Congrats selmerguy! The only real reason why I went with a Holset is so I can tell people I run a diesel turbo...haha. I'm bolting mine up today. I had to clock mine facing downward and kinda towards the motor a little bit in order for the compressor housing to not hit the block (gets smaller and smaller the closer it is to the outlet). I didn't use any spacer on mine, but had to relocate my coolant nipple for the oil filter housing as shown above. It's time to get this thing going!

Has anyone used the stock fans with a hx-40 or h1e?

 

[JWoodley]

Congrats selmerguy! The only real reason why I went with a Holset is so I can tell people I run a diesel turbo...haha. I'm bolting mine up today. I had to clock mine facing downward and kinda towards the motor a little bit in order for the compressor housing to not hit the block (gets smaller and smaller the closer it is to the outlet). I didn't use any spacer on mine, but had to relocate my coolant nipple for the oil filter housing as shown above. It's time to get this thing going!

Has anyone used the stock fans with a hx-40 or h1e?

After this weekend I'll let you know if the stock fans will with without modification. But I have the 1/2" mani/head spacer from RRE. I don't intend to run the stock fans, but I'll see if I can mock them up.

 

[420a-t]

Sigh, well I was bolting up my turbo today when i noticed that I needed to bang on the waterpipe a little more for clearence. I whacked it one too many times and put a hold in it. Long story short, I put jb weld that is good up to 600 degrees over the hole. Will this hold with the compressor housing so close? Or should I fork over the money and buy another one?

I kind of feel dumb for asking about jb weld, but hey, I'm desprate.

 

[JWoodley]

Sigh, well I was bolting up my turbo today when i noticed that I needed to bang on the waterpipe a little more for clearence. I whacked it one too many times and put a hold in it. Long story short, I put jb weld that is good up to 600 degrees over the hole. Will this hold with the compressor housing so close? Or should I fork over the money and buy another one?

I kind of feel dumb for asking about jb weld, but hey, I'm desprate.

Shoot me a PM. I've got one for you from the motor on my parts car. It'd be alot easier to fix it correctly now then spring a leak 5 mins out of your driveway.

 

[420a-t]

I got my oil return on the other day, I used a standard t3 package and an extra 90 degree fitting from home depot. Works good, no leaks yet...because I havn't started my car in over 5 months!

Is the compressor outlet v-band?