Holset Turbos, PART 2

[spoolinawd91]

Just another update, track rental was today. The trans/clutch/shifter is screwed. I think what's happening is the TOB or clutch is messed up, and it's not disengaging all the way. The car was starting to creep when staging and getting into any gear is nearly futile. Even in this poor state, it still managed to run an 11.5 @ 127 on the only semi-clean pass (still missed 2nd but recovered quickly). The 1/8th on that pass was only 97. The best 1/8th mph of the day was 99. This tells me that it's capable of 129-130 as it sits with a clean run. Not bad for a full weight car at 28psi. More updates to come once the trans is sorted out.

Any more updates on this car?

 

[Steve93Talon]

Nothing good to report yet. The car is running a 135k stock 6 bolt, and the compression is 90-90-110-110. The built bottom end is ready to drop in, but the car is still having clutch engagement problems. Hopefully we'll sort it out soon. We've got another guy running the same turbo who should have his car together soon as well.

 

[sweet97]

Josh whatever happened to the dyno numbers you were going to get?
Myself I giuess I am stuck with the Holset HX-35/40 which i a glorified 60-1 and on the smaller side from the wheel isze. Still I am happy with 120mph traps. Too bad I had incorrect info when purchasing the turbo and from what I can see they are still advertised as 70+lb/min turbo's. Oh well some numbers would be nice to see even if not what we expected. Nice to have something to go by! Mark

 

[sweet97]

I can't seem to place a classiified as. Email me and we'll talk about my Holset HX-35/40 and a possible trade for $700. Mark
My head overheated and i need a new head to get back on the road. I also have a brans new DN Performance tubular exhaust manifold that can go also. Mark

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Something is throwing the formatting off. I'm giong to delete stuff to try and fix it. I will save any attachements I delete so if you need them back just PM me.

 

[blue1]

Holset turbo part 3 has been started.

 

[Morphius]

Holset turbo part 3 has been started.

Since it's my thread, how about letting me decide when to start the new one!


Besides, this one hasn't reached the length of the first one. That's when I plan to start a third, keeping it consistant.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

So, who is running a 9CM or 12CM setup of some sort?

Surge issues? Spool time? Airflow/track/dyno or any other numbers?

 

[blue1]

Hey i didnt start no 3! If you pulled this reply across could you please pull the question about A/R versus CM across as well. Thanks Paul

 

[ceedawg]

Oil pressure should be kept to approx 60 psi on high RPM because of the same issues is does have with engine bearings (oil wedge) which is a major contributor to spun bearings. because most turbo's dont run a positive oil seal the high oil pressures does pass the piston ring seal easily and put oil in the inlet and the turbine housing.
Ball bearing turbos are especially prone to failure due to high oil pressures it causes the bearings to skids rather than roll, the OEM oil line does use a restrictor for this purpose and i think it would be an idea to stick with this size because of the amount of development DSM has put into working out this size. And if you have the balance shaft mod done look into moding the oil bypass in the pump.
Taking oil from the rear of the head i dont see issue with the cleanliness of the oil as after engine break in the amount of particles going through the system should have dissapeared if oils and filters are changed at a regular times.

Keep up the good info!

I have to agree with this 100%. I've gone thru many Garett T3/T4 turbos prematurely by feeding the turbo oil from the oil filter housing.In the winter I've seen my oil pressure gauge reach 100 psi on a cold start(not good for the turbo),next few minutes PUFF,there went a new Garett I had only installed a month prior. Since going thru this experience three times I've decided to feed my garrett turbo from the side of the cylinder head and I've had no oil burning or oil leaking problems at all.When i istall my holset ,it will be fed oil from the head. PS my engine has No Balance Shafts.

 

[RavenX]

Although this does not pertain to the holset. I have the pte 57trim bb. I also have a built 6 bolt with no balance shafts. Sees about 100+psi cold start up, 30psi warm, 95psi cruising, 100+psi during wot. This is alot indeed i have yet to do the porting of the bypass valve in the filter housing. But from experience ive ran a 50trim and now the 57trim with this oil pressure and i have not had any problems. As long as you use a restrictor on the oil line you will be fine. Thats what i did with the 50trim and i had no puff of smoke at idle etc etc. For the pte turbo though i had to go to a smaller restrictor than the one that comes on the turbo already as it was too big. As long as you restrict the line you will be fine.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Subscribing to thread....


Rogue

 

[twinty]

Hey guys,
I dont post much on here but read alot, and have been following this Holset thread since the beginning. I since have gotten my HY35 with 9cm2 housing and Hx40 turbine wheel and shaft (I machined the turbine housing to fit) installed on my car....All I can say is WOW, the thing is an animal, full boost (20lbs) by 4500 rpm in second gear, in fourth and fifth I can build 10 lbs by 3200 rpm.

Mods are here:

-Stock 6 bolt block ARP head studs, reringed, with balance shafts removed
-HKS 272 regrinds
-Stock valves and Springs
-Mild port job on head to smooth flow
-Port matched everything
-RMT SMIM 5* taper on runners with velosity stacks
-BBK 70mm Throttle body
-3 inch upper intercooler piping
-2.5 inch Lower piping
-4 inch intake piping
-780cc injectors
-Walbro 255hp pump
-Garrett intercooler core
-3" downpipe and exhaust
-38mm Tial WG
-Kinetic Motorsports Tubular header (same as DNP) T3 flanged
-'97 5 speed transmission
-Centerforce DF clutch
-4 bolt rear
-Stock ecu chipped for Speed density, Yep no maf!!! (Thanks to the dsm-ecu group on Yahoo for this mod)

I hope to get to the track soon, but comparing to last years setup which was a evo3 16g with supporting mods, that ran a 11.75@117, this setup pulls way harder. I shift it at 8200rpm only because of the stock internals, It is still pulling hard and would probably do so until 9000+. I cant wait to get my JE's and Crowers and turn the boost up. 20lbs, no knock and 18* timing on Chevron 94 octane. I can light all 4 tires up in first and chirp second gear when I launch it at 5000 rpm. As far as fitment, all I had to build was a downpipe and flange, and hook up the oil line to the oil filter housing. Well that and intercooler piping, but was doing that anyhow.
I will post some pics after I resize them

or you can try here www.rmtmods.ca/forum pics

cheers

 

[krnbk2]

Hey guys,
I dont post much on here but read alot, and have been following this Holset thread since the beginning. I since have gotten my HY35 with 9cm2 housing and Hx40 turbine wheel and shaft (I machined the turbine housing to fit) installed on my car....All I can say is WOW, the thing is an animal, full boost (20lbs) by 4500 rpm in second gear, in fourth and fifth I can build 10 lbs by 3200 rpm.

Mods are here:

-Stock 6 bolt block ARP head studs, reringed, with balance shafts removed
-HKS 272 regrinds
-Stock valves and Springs
-Mild port job on head to smooth flow
-Port matched everything
-RMT SMIM 5* taper on runners with velosity stacks
-BBK 70mm Throttle body
-3 inch upper intercooler piping
-2.5 inch Lower piping
-4 inch intake piping
-780cc injectors
-Walbro 255hp pump
-Garrett intercooler core
-3" downpipe and exhaust
-38mm Tial WG
-Kinetic Motorsports Tubular header (same as DNP) T3 flanged
-'97 5 speed transmission
-Centerforce DF clutch
-4 bolt rear
-Stock ecu chipped for Speed density, Yep no maf!!! (Thanks to the dsm-ecu group on Yahoo for this mod)

I hope to get to the track soon, but comparing to last years setup which was a evo3 16g with supporting mods, that ran a 11.75@117, this setup pulls way harder. I shift it at 8200rpm only because of the stock internals, It is still pulling hard and would probably do so until 9000+. I cant wait to get my JE's and Crowers and turn the boost up. 20lbs, no knock and 18* timing on Chevron 94 octane. I can light all 4 tires up in first and chirp second gear when I launch it at 5000 rpm. As far as fitment, all I had to build was a downpipe and flange, and hook up the oil line to the oil filter housing. Well that and intercooler piping, but was doing that anyhow.
I will post some pics after I resize them

or you can try here www.rmtmods.ca/forum pics

cheers

Very nice setup. Just wondering, who makes your radiator?

 

[twinty]

Thanks alot!! I put alot of blood and sweat into building my car, and it was worth it if someone else thinks it looks good...

I built everything in the car except the tubular header. The radiator, intercooler, SMIM, piping, etc... were all built by me. The radiator is a 2 row crossflow aluminum core with custom endtanks.
tis what I do...

 

[krnbk2]

Thanks alot!! I put alot of blood and sweat into building my car, and it was worth it if someone else thinks it looks good...

I built everything in the car except the tubular header. The radiator, intercooler, SMIM, piping, etc... were all built by me. The radiator is a 2 row crossflow aluminum core with custom endtanks.
tis what I do...

so when are you making me one?

 

[aero_sallee]

Hey guys,
I dont post much on here but read alot, and have been following this Holset thread since the beginning. I since have gotten my HY35 with 9cm2 housing and Hx40 turbine wheel and shaft (I machined the turbine housing to fit) installed on my car....All I can say is WOW, the thing is an animal, full boost (20lbs) by 4500 rpm in second gear, in fourth and fifth I can build 10 lbs by 3200 rpm.

cheers

Just wondering about this turbo and the choices you made with it. Why did you decide to use teh HY compressor with a HX40 turbine wheel? It seems more advantageous to run the HX40 compressor on the HY hotside. Other than maybe to get a bit more exhaust flow out of the relativly small 9cm hotside. Seems like its working well for you though.

Any information about why you made that decision?

 

[twinty]

Just wondering about this turbo and the choices you made with it. Why did you decide to use teh HY compressor with a HX40 turbine wheel? It seems more advantageous to run the HX40 compressor on the HY hotside. Other than maybe to get a bit more exhaust flow out of the relativly small 9cm hotside. Seems like its working well for you though.

Any information about why you made that decision?

I build all my setups based on mass flow rate, and just looking at the size of a hy35 turbine tells me it is too small for the high airflow rates of our engines. My other concern though is I plan on running a hx40 compressor later and definatly want the turbine side to match the monster of a wheel, that and the 9cm housing for quick spool. I personally don't care when it spools, because all good things are worth the wait full boost by 4500 and pullin to 9000. now all I need is a built bottom end....

 

[Maglin]

I build all my setups based on mass flow rate, and just looking at the size of a hy35 turbine tells me it is too small for the high airflow rates of our engines.

I don't see what you are saying here. It came from a 5.9L Diesel. They output almost 2x as much exhaust as our 2L.

But the HY35 does flow a tad more than the HX35. It's not a bad idea to go with a larger turbine as it will help with top end flow. I never really thought about the amount of flow vs. rpm. Maybe we do flow more when we are above 7000 RPMs. Just occured to me. Where do you see full spool at? Would like to know how it all turns out.

 

[twinty]

Since I have last posted I have gotten my tune nearly perfected. I am running the speed density conversion that is available on the dsm-ecu group....Which works Awesome I might add... anyhow...

When driving up a hill in third gear at about 2000 rpm I can roll into the throttle to no more than half throttle and have 5psi at no more than 3000 rpm, 10psi by 3500, and 20psi at or before 4000rpm. I find fourth and fifth gear spool up even sooner because of the obviously increased load. I have not eperienced any surging of the compressor whatsoever as well. I am finding that this turbo almost rivals the evo 16g I had before it. Torque is incredible down low even with 5psi. 5psi on the holset is like 10-12psi on the evo16g. The top end is absolutly insane, I had to lower my rev limiter to 8200 from 8500 because I found myself hitting it all the time, and I dont want to replace my internals just yet.

I would recomend my setup to anyone who wants to go fast and doesn't want to beat the heck out of the water pipe...The Kinetic header (which is practially the same as a DNP-T3 flanged manifold) and the holset hy35/9cm2 are a perfect match for each other. It clears my water pipe by 1/4". The only real fabrication that differs from the bullseye housing is the downpipe, which is simply a flange and a couple of three inch bends. I got my elbows from the dynomax, in their catalog near the back. I was going to get a bullseye housing but I was worried about the sizing of the turbine housing. Since the hy35 came from holset with the 9cm housing I think they probably designed the turbo to match fairly well and figured it was worth the effort.

Now if only I could get it to the track or the dyno.....but until then I will drive it daily..

Oh, and about the bigger exhaust wheel......

It straight out of Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost"
-"A larger Radius (bigger wheel) will give the turbine shaft greater torque with which to drive the compressor wheel"
and
-"Larger turbines generally offer higher power outputs than smaller turbines"

cheers.

 

[Maglin]

A larger turbine wheel will help with top end power as it is providing less exhaust restriction. But if you put to big a turbine wheel on all it will do is hinder power as you will have more turbo lag and it will take more to get it spinning to it's optimum RPM range which is generally around 100K RPM.

Very glad to hear about your setup. And I'm really glad to hear about your using Nick Pudheads SD code. It's pretty nice. Works fairly well. I've had a few people ask me to get them on the SD code. Can't wait to see your 60' times and 1/8 and 1/4 mile times. I could really care less about total HP output.

 

[ceedawg]

Although this does not pertain to the holset. I have the pte 57trim bb. I also have a built 6 bolt with no balance shafts. Sees about 100+psi cold start up, 30psi warm, 95psi cruising, 100+psi during wot. This is alot indeed i have yet to do the porting of the bypass valve in the filter housing. But from experience ive ran a 50trim and now the 57trim with this oil pressure and i have not had any problems. As long as you use a restrictor on the oil line you will be fine. Thats what i did with the 50trim and i had no puff of smoke at idle etc etc. For the pte turbo though i had to go to a smaller restrictor than the one that comes on the turbo already as it was too big. As long as you restrict the line you will be fine.

I believe we used a restrictor. 100psi is alot for a turbo which you agree with.I'm talking about three new garretts.I still feel that feeding the turbocharger from the side of the head is better for the turbo.

 

[sweet97]

My DSM is gone, cracked block so I parted it out after 2 years and more money than I care to say. I ran the HX-35/40 and it was strong but I would have liked to have experienced it on a 9^cm2 turbine housing as that sounds like a perfect size. Isn't the HY attached to the turbine with a V-band? And for a downpipe you must have used a flange from a Cummins 5.9?
I did not use a restrictor though my oil feed line which got the oil from the filter housing had a small fitting just where it threaded onto the center section's fitting so all was well for 7K miles oiling it that way. Interesting info! mark

 

[twinty]

Ok so I finally got my car to the track this weekend, It worked amazingly well considering it was 38* celcius out and I was on the conservative side with a 10.8 afr on c16 with 27lbs boost. I am going back to the track on the 5th of August and will try to get a better tune on the car. I have no idea how much timing I was running but I do know that I had absolutly no knock. I shifted at 7800 and the speed density rocked. Stutterbox set at 6000 rpm and slipping the clutch to get off the line while keeping my 2 spider center diff alive. The second slip with the 11.6 and 117mph was because my hose fell off my boost controller at halftrack and the boost fell to 19lbs.

the file it too large to link to here so you will have to click here to see the slips:

http://www.rmtmods.ca/forum pics/night drags july 22.JPG

Edit: I am car 127

 

[IPT]

I am assuming that you are the #127 car?