FP Green?

[JusMX141]

Appears to be your old-school T04E50/TD06H Green.

 

[interrupt13]

T04E50? Good? Bad? wut?

 

[dsm-onster]

It's the regular t04e 50-trim compressor. Like all original fp greens came with. 49lb/min and rather efficient for 1970s compressors. If you want up to 49lb/min,
it will work just fine for it.

 

[Ludachris]

Well a few members state that they think FP is using cheap ebay/taiwan/china junk and FP didn't deny it. That raises an eyebrow and is keeping me from buying a Green.

Actually, FP did deny using ebay junk saying that it's their own design. If anyone that made that accusation would have called FP instead of making that claim for others to believe, the misinformation could have stopped there. Now that it's posted, some will take it as fact and miss the reply FP posted. Why not just call the company whose products you have questions about and ask them directly?

There is a lot of guessing and insinuations flying around in this thread and I would hope to see people act more responsible about what they say, especially leaders of the site. Even some of the questions being asked can be seen as accusations. It would be nice if someone could call FP and get this information and post it here so that people can stop guessing.

 

[Ludachris]

The turbine wheel looks like a GT series wheel with the swept back blades. I could have sworn i saw this on some other Chinese knock off MHI turbo. I want to say it was a TD06H size from what i remember.

And this statement is going to cause people to believe FP is now using Chinese knock-off parts for their turbos.

 

[Ludachris]

Does this mean I have a good FP green (despite lacking the HTA comp?)

And this my friends, is what happens when rumors fly around without anyone asking the vendor questions directly. Nobody has any information that the new FP green is "bad", and yet, because of all the guessing that has taken place here, you have people coming away with the idea that there is a good and bad version - just look at the quote above.

That's what happens on the web these days. Why not ask the vendor what wheels they're using? What housings they're using? Who designed it? Where they're being produced? What type of metals they're using? How many have come back for repair? How many were sold? What the failure rate was? What the suspected causes were? Etc, etc, etc.

And no, I don't have this information. I can't defend FP because I don't know the answers to these questions. I can only ask that everyone be responsible with their statements so that more people don't come away with ideas like the one I quoted above, without any good reason to do so. It's irresponsible.

 

[JusMX141]

That's what happens on the web these days. Why not ask the vendor what wheels they're using? What housings they're using? Who designed it? Where they're being produced? What type of metals they're using? How many have come back for repair? How many were sold? What the failure rate was? What the suspected causes were? Etc, etc, etc.

Does everyone assume to get a truthful answer when cornering a vendor about product information? I've found in the past that you can speak to three different people within a company and get three different answers, so that would never hold up in court.

We attempted to get some insight from FP around post #13, Chris....but that was train was quickly derailed which only makes potential buyers second-guess the product even more.

The point of anything I said within this thread is an attempt to educate the general public as to what they're buying, and how to identify turbo parts that are not Genuine MHI parts. There's obviously a reason that Forced Performance has strayed away from using Genuine MHI parts on their newest run of FP DSM Greens, and I'm sure manufacturing cost has a lot to do with it.

I just feel that if you're going to completely redesign a turbo from the ground up, give a little more information about the changes in the product description so rumors do not get started. The product listing clearly states the turbo uses a TD06H turbine, but visual proof finds that not to be true. It may be "TD06H-spec", but it's definitely not made by Mitsubishi.

I'm not trying to start anything here, FP has built some wonderful products over the years. I'm just wondering exactly what you're getting for your $1300, and if it will truly stand the test of time like some of the Frank turbos I still get at my shop today that were built before Forced Performance ever opened their doors.

....I'm going to be the one dealing with these turbos years from now when they break and are out of warranty, so I'm just trying to get an honest answer about what has changed, and why.

 

[Ludachris]

Does everyone assume to get a truthful answer when cornering a vendor about product information? I've found in the past that you can speak to three different people within a company and get three different answers, so that would never hold up in court.

We attempted to get some insight from FP around post #13, Chris....but that was train was quickly derailed which only makes potential buyers second-guess the product even more.

The point of anything I said within this thread is an attempt to educate the general public as to what they're buying, and how to identify turbo parts that are not Genuine MHI parts. There's obviously a reason that Forced Performance has strayed away from using Genuine MHI parts on their newest run of FP DSM Greens, and I'm sure manufacturing cost has a lot to do with it.

I just feel that if you're going to completely redesign a turbo from the ground up, give a little more information about the changes in the product description so rumors do not get started. The product listing clearly states the turbo uses a TD06H turbine, but visual proof finds that not to be true. It may be "TD06H-spec", but it's definitely not made by Mitsubishi.



....I'm going to be the one dealing with these turbos years from now when they break and are out of warranty, so I'm just trying to get an honest answer about what has changed, and why.

I don't know of any companies with reputations similar to that of FP that have blatantly lied when asked questions about stuff like this. If they do, chances are they aren't around that long. You have to have a reason to not believe the vendor, and I've yet to come across someone who was lied to by FP about stuff like this. I would call and talk directly to Robert - no way of getting 5 different answers. He knows the answers to all of these questions.

In the case of post #13 - we all know not all vendors stay on top of discussions on sites like ours, and when they answer, they're not always detailed with their answers (and sometimes only answer one of 5 questions). That's why the best way is to contact them directly and not wait for them to answer their questions here in the forums. Then the person who asks can post the information here for all to read and benefit from. In all the pages of this thread it looks like that hasn't happened, and I'm not sure why. Seems to me the time it would take to take actual measurements to see if a wheel matches another would be better spent on the phone with Robert at FP, asking if the wheel is the same or not, and if not, what wheel it is and how/where it was made.

Instead of making assumptions as to why FP is not using MHI parts on some of their turbos, again, might as well ask them directly. We can assume it's due to cost, but that's just an assumption, reasonable as it sounds. There could be other major factors that people aren't aware of.

And as far as educating people on how to identify MHI parts from non-MHI parts, that's great. It's definitely useful to have this info. But the insinuation that has been made throughout this thread is that anything that isn't MHI is knock-off and unreliable - without any direct information to support that assumption, at least in the case of FP. Just look at the post I quoted above. And I think that's where some of the comments have crossed the line. Granted, FP could give a little more info on the turbos, but just because the info isn't readily available online doesn't mean we should allow rumors and potential misinformation to fly around unchecked (like the insinuation that FP is taking wheels and housings from MHI knock-off turbos and using them in their turbos) - especially when a simple phone call can be made to get some of this info. Funny, I remember posting something similar to this in another turbo manufacturer thread, Comp Turbo I believe. So before anyone starts questioning my ethics, keep in mind Comp Turbo isn't a Supporting Vendor

Again, I can't say what is and is not being done at FP, I just don't want our site to be a source of assumptions and misinformation. I'd like to think we've got members here that would help curb that and stop others from spewing it as well. The best source for info about a product is always the manufacturer. And if they give false info, that's on them. The truth will eventually come out, so there's no reason to not ask them for it in the first place.

 

[dsm-onster]

I've been seeing guys with broken turbine wheels. No I don't know if the casings are causing it or not. . .

. ..I'll wager FP isn't following that same business plan with these turbochargers. Would be nice to know that is for sure. No one needs input from silly cheerleading. "Good friends with Robert". If you could contribute them on this thread, your results would be greatly appreciated, Kevin.

Like I said above. I wager FP is not following the same business plan it did with the old td06sl2 CHRAs. . .They are innovative yet display a deep sense of responsibility; and don't need cheerleaders to wave the pompoms.

 

[Ludachris]

Like I said above. I wager FP is not following the same business plan it did with the old td06sl2 CHRAs. . .They are innovative yet display a deep sense of responsibility; and don't need cheerleaders to wave the pompoms.

I agree with you Matt, and I hope I didn't come across as a cheerleader. Pom poms don't help any debate or discussion. I don't want anything disguised, I want it all out on the table. That's why I'm pushing to curb the assumptions and get some facts posted in here straight from the source. It's clear some people are being swayed into believing a few of these assumptions to be fact.

 

[dsm-onster]

I wasn't referring to you at all Chris. And I see your point. It was a facet that originally attracted me to DSMTuners. And, I know attracted many other folks as well.

 

[Ludachris]

I wasn't referring to you at all Chris. And I see your point. It was a facet that originally attracted me to DSMTuners. And, I know attracted many other folks as well.

Appreciated Matt.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Wow you guys crack me up.

Having tuned 600+ different DSM's in the last 10 years and over 200 in the last 2 years on my Dyno, We have also done just over 390 EVO's on our dyno in the last 2 years. This does not include retunes or combo changes on the same cars. Since most DSM's never hit the Dyno before or after, have a ton of random mods that may or may not work together, they think because they bought X part it must make power or be fast.

Out of the 100s of different turbo I have tuned I have yet to see any come close to spool VS power of the FP Turbos.



I cant say on were the products are made but I do know true mitu stuff is getting harder and harder to get and the cost keeps going up. So finding other options is going to happen. I know by the way FP runs there business they are always moving to make better products that work. Ware they are made I could care less as long as they work.

I know there is no $200 China turbo that even compares. All China Ebay EVOIII,20g,green I see are down at least 30hp over the real deal and it seems like a 50/50 chance they make it.

Out of all of FP Turbos the 18g is my least favorite. I would take a EVOIII any day over at 18g.

I have the new style HTA Green on my little Auto car that has ran a 9.9 and pushed close to 40psi with no problem.

The new HTA Green on my Auto makes about 20hp peak more then the FP68hta and about 40hp more at 7k (remember the Auto sucks up power so this isnt what you'd see on a manual). My Auto Could not capitalize on the Green like a 5spd car does because it stays on its peak power 5.5k-6.5k all they way down the track.

All turbos can fail and %90 of the time its not the turbos fault if its good turbo. The most common failure I see on turbos that can eat alot of turbos are motor bearing failures. While the bearings are getting pounded it seems to feed back into the oiling system and take the turbos out. I have caught about 10 motors before they fully fail from the turbo failing. Anytime I see a turbo fail with out reason I will pull the pan and check things out. FP has done very good at fixing turbos for free or super cheap even if its not there fault.

So in recap FP only sells turbos that work (unlike most vendors PTE, bullseye) and do a good job of taking care of problems.

 

[kidtsi]

I got the turbo installed 3 weeks ago, no problems so far working on the tune right now.

 

[JusMX141]

So in recap FP only sells turbos that work (unlike most vendors PTE, bullseye) and do a good job of taking care of problems.

I agree 100% with this statement- I've yet to have a FP turbo come to my shop because of catastrophic failure which resulted from parts or workmanship aside from a couple of 18G-6SL2's with thrust problems. Compare that to the PTE turbos I get in droves which fail for no reason whatsoever.

FP does a great job researching, building, balancing- and there's no doubt that when you buy something from them you're getting a much better product than any of their competitors which is designed with DSM use in mind.

 

[dsm-onster]

I didn't like their 18g either. . .

. . .And yes, they got on that and fixed it. . . Organizations are as human as the humans that belong to them. No, FP isn't perfect. But they try really hard.

 

[Robert Young]

The turbine wheel used in the 73HTA green for the DSM is a 65mm trim of the new TD06H4 blade aero. We went over to the 6H4 aero about 4 years ago due to it's improved efficiency. While it is a few grams heavier than the earlier 6H aero, it's increased eff results in faster spool and greater choke flow ar max PR. This is the same blade aero combo we use for the 73HTA green turbo for the EVO which has been very popular for the 450+whp apps.

It doesnt come from ebay. We make them since MHI wont make the 65mm trim of it, or at least deosnt have a good PN that is purchaseable at this time. We are proud to make the part, and thats why we cast our logo right into the part. We personally test and certify each casting lot for metallurgy and grain structure to ensure the highest quality part.

It might surprise some of you to know that Mitsubishi isnt really all that responsive to the hotrodders needs. For the years 2006-2011 Forced Performance was MHI largest turbocharger customer in North America, and they still were unable to fill most of our orders for product and requests for special product or new product were usually not well received or even entertained.

This resulted in a "IF we want it WE must make it" mentality which has served us all well, particularly in light of recent tragedies in Japan which will likely halt exports of surplus turbochargers to North America as well as individual turbo parts spares, there will be no surpluses. It is normally a good thing to have multiple parallel supply sources to overcome shorthand supplies issues from a single souce.

Being unable to get enough bearing housings from MHI resulted in us making our own with all the features we spent hours modifying into the stock OEM parts, this story has played over and over for us. In the end it delivers a better part for less cost to the end user.

Maybe I should have put some of this into the product page for the new turbos?

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

Thank you!!!!

 

[kidtsi]

The turbine wheel used in the 73HTA green for the DSM is a 65mm trim of the new TD06H4 blade aero. We went over to the 6H4 aero about 4 years ago due to it's improved efficiency. While it is a few grams heavier than the earlier 6H aero, it's increased eff results in faster spool and greater choke flow ar max PR. This is the same blade aero combo we use for the 73HTA green turbo for the EVO which has been very popular for the 450+whp apps.

It doesnt come from ebay. We make them since MHI wont make the 65mm trim of it, or at least deosnt have a good PN that is purchaseable at this time. We are proud to make the part, and thats why we cast our logo right into the part. We personally test and certify each casting lot for metallurgy and grain structure to ensure the highest quality part.

It might surprise some of you to know that Mitsubishi isnt really all that responsive to the hotrodders needs. For the years 2006-2011 Forced Performance was MHI largest turbocharger customer in North America, and they still were unable to fill most of our orders for product and requests for special product or new product were usually not well received or even entertained.

This resulted in a "IF we want it WE must make it" mentality which has served us all well, particularly in light of recent tragedies in Japan which will likely halt exports of surplus turbochargers to North America as well as individual turbo parts spares, there will be no surpluses. It is normally a good thing to have multiple parallel supply sources to overcome shorthand supplies issues from a single souce.

Being unable to get enough bearing housings from MHI resulted in us making our own with all the features we spent hours modifying into the stock OEM parts, this story has played over and over for us. In the end it delivers a better part for less cost to the end user.

Maybe I should have put some of this into the product page for the new turbos?

So the hta FP green that i have is rated at 54lbs/min?

 

[OstarMotorsport]

I just started using FP products and i must say that in my lifetime i have used just about every 67mm turbo in all the different cars i have built and none have performed as well as the unit i am running from FP at the moment. The're customer loyalty showed big time when they repaired a turbo for me that was out of warranty and did it all free of charge. I am sold on there products and service and will continue to use their products on my cars. This is coming from a Bullseye and Precision dealer.

 

[kidtsi]

Also i would like to know what is the stock wastegate pressure on a FP green.

 

[Robert Young]

Also i would like to know what is the stock wastegate pressure on a FP green.

The standard WG pressure is 1 bar or approx 14psi. Thanks for the question!

BOOSTON!

Robert Young

 

[Robert Young]

I just started using FP products and i must say that in my lifetime i have used just about every 67mm turbo in all the different cars i have built and none have performed as well as the unit i am running from FP at the moment. The're customer loyalty showed big time when they repaired a turbo for me that was out of warranty and did it all free of charge. I am sold on there products and service and will continue to use their products on my cars. This is coming from a Bullseye and Precision dealer.

You know, it is really nice of you to share your positive experience my friend! We LOVE our customers, and love it even more when they get out there and consistently kick a&& year after year!

BOOSTON!

Robert Young

 

[tsitalon03]

So how much does it flow? Same?

 

[kidtsi]

So how much does it flow? Same?

54.6lbs/min for what i understand which is around 730CFM.