2G Engine issues?

[97gsxmod]

(Continued from https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/starting-issues-with-new-to-me-modded-gsx.545572/)

Had a blown turbo that was burning oil. Replaced it and then on startup oil filter popped loose and drained all the oil while I was trying to rev the car to keep it at running (would turn off if I didn’t rev it a little on start up).

Assume the loss of oil and pressure blew f***ed my freshly built turbo but was having trouble starting the engine as well.

So I just did compression tests. Number are 130-140-140-150 on a dry test with a cold engine. These numbers don’t seem great but don’t seem bad enough to explain the engine not starting. However when pulling plugs for the test I noticed they are all black and I just put fresh ones in a month ago and only moved the car to the road then back to the drive way. Must be from the old turbo?

Had trouble starting before and I replaced the plugs and it started right up, so I’m going to try to clean these and see if it will start. But the last factor my brain in considering is the build sheet for this car said it had 1200cc injectors, this seems crazy big? Maybe that’s part of the reason I’m destroying spark plugs so quick and even with fresh ones I have to get it reving a little before it will stay at idle. Any information is greatly appreciated.

Also forgot to mention I spun the new but most likely destroyed turbo by hand to make sure this wasn’t causing the no start. It spins though, so I'm assuming its not related to my starting issues but maybe I should try cracking the intercooler to intake tube to insure it’s able to breath with the turbo?

It still spun but seemed to spin slower then when it was freshly built prior to lose of oil after install.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I really think it’s something to do with the loss of oil. Either with the engine and cams or maybe to turbo doesn’t let enough air past it for the car to start since the bearings are damaged from oil loss? Even tho i did check and spin It by hand and it rotates so idk

If you have compression and things spin by hand and you don't have a "knock knock knock" when cranking, and the oil pressure light goes out while cranking - I still think it will go.

But you are the expert in the room. If you think there is an issue with the bearings - start with an oil change and look for carnage. Pull the cam caps 1 by one and look at the surfaces. If those look OK - Maybe stop the inspection before going to the crank and rod bearings.

 

[DSMPT]

I think this is the issue. Never had starting troubles like this before the oil pressure loss incident.

We never know until you visually check it.
What about the coolant temp sensor? Did you replace or make sure it's working as it should?

 

[97gsxmod]

We never know until you visually check it.
What about the coolant temp sensor? Did you replace or make sure it's working as it should?

I tried locking the coolant temp, And then tried locking in hot start . Neither worked

 

[DSMPT]

I tried locking the coolant temp, And then tried locking in hot start . Neither worked

You know that damaged bearings or cam journals is like the worst case scenario. And even if it gets damaged a little, the engine should still fire up as long as if they still rotate. So your no start issue is most likely not related to dumping oil due to loose oil filter.
I mentioned it as just for in case as a different thing from the no start issue. Because in case if it got a little damaged, maybe still repairable before getting worse.
What would usually happen if the cam journals get damaged very badly by no oil is, it gets melt and stuck, but the crankshaft forces the cams to spin via timing belt, and then ending up ripping the timing belt teeth at crank sprocket.

 

[97gsxmod]

I tried locking the coolant temp, And then tried locking in hot start . Neither worked

Well the mechanics that said they would look at it quoted me 600 dollars just for the diagnosis let alone the actual fix. So looks like I’m back to doing it myself. Rather lite the car on fire then pay some one 600 dollars to look at it.

I’ve been doing a little more research and noticed my fuel pressure drops to around 20 psi when the car is off. And I read it’s not supposed to drop? But it goes right back to 42 when I activate the pump with the ECU. Supposedly this is a sign of a bad pump or pressure regulator leaking but since it never reaches 0 and goes right back up to 42 psi when I activate the pump with the ECU I’m not sure if air could be getting in the line?

Starting to think maybe I have a bunch of small issues combining to create the issue. I possibly have a bad ground on my starter because it likes to alternate from fast to slow, or a starter going out. Then the fuel pressure dropping issues and the broken coolant temp sensor. And on top of everything else my turbo might be spinning a little slow and making it hard for the engine to breath on start up?

Tried unplugging mass air flow but nothing. The other issue is I could be flooding the engine when I attempt one fix, then setting it back to how it was and attempting another fix, but since the flooding could have occurred it might be causing me to over look the correct solution.

Now I fully get why people don’t buy someone else’s modded car

 

[DSMPT]

Well the mechanics that said they would look at it quoted me 600 dollars just for the diagnosis let alone the actual fix. So looks like I’m back to doing it myself. Rather lite the car on fire then pay some one 600 dollars to look at it.

600? Wish I was close to you. Yeah the best would be to find a DSMer close to you. That would help you more than a general mechanic.

noticed my fuel pressure drops to around 20 psi when the car is off.

It doesn't sound abnormal to me.

And I read it’s not supposed to drop? But it goes right back to 42 when I activate the pump with the ecu

I think you read a wrong info or misunderstood. Yes it should keep the pressure after turn off the engine if you have a check valve, but it would drop some pressure after turning off the engine is normal and then getting lower little by little by time. Anyways if you had the pressure while cranking, then it would have worked.

the broken coolant temp sensor.

Inspect it physically first. And if it's bad, then just go to a local parts store to grab one that they have in stock. Or buy it in eBay or so, even it's a cheap one, it should be better than a broken one.

Starting to think maybe I have a bunch of small issues combining to creat the issue.

Right and it's normal when you buy a project car. So you have to fix all mechanical issues first. Tuning wouldn't be able to fix anything mechanically.

Now I fully get why people don’t buy someone else’s modded car

Yeah you should avoid a project car unless you are familiar. But I believe you can make it work, we are here to help.

 

[RamenPride]

No luck on the starting attempt. I could smell fuel and got a few pops. Going to try cleaning my spark plugs again even tho I just cleaned them last week. I always get the closed to starting with freshly cleaned plugs and have had success with that in the past.

If it worked in the past, then its worth trying again. The plugs are probably fouled again from all the cranking and unsuccessful startup attempts. However, instead of cleaning them, I would just get a fresh set. Not sure what cleaning method you're using, but I've never had much luck with cleaning instead of replacing. I just keep 2-3 sets of plugs on hand since they're not all that expensive. You can just get the cheapest (ie Champion, Autolite, etc.) stock plugs for now, since the object is just to get the car to start and idle. Once it all gets sorted out, you can switch them out.

 

[pauleyman]

I've not been following this that closely. Why don't you just pull the injectors and have them cleaned and flowed? It's cheap. Then you know they're clean and not leaking and you know exactly what size they are to setup global adjustment. Rules out that part of things.
If fuel pressure still drops substantially after this you have a problem in the tank or at the regulator. If it's hold fuel pressure while cranking it should idle and if it isn't idling the problem with idle isn't fuel pressure or injectors. It's in the tune or some other ecu input. At this point I assume you've ruled out all potential boost/vac leaks. If you haven't you're chasing your tail.

 

[97gsxmod]

I was advised to switch my cam angle sensor type in the ECU and didn't think to much about it but now I'm thinking how could this be correct if the car was running and driving prior to switching the sensor in the ECU?

Could I have damaged the valves when I switch the cam ecu setting to "non 95-96 style cam angle sensor?

 

[steve]

No, the ECU setting is about the ignition timing signals not physical valve timing. Damaging the valves would happen if your timing belt was installed wrong or skipped teeth allowing the pistons and valves to intimately meet.

I didn't go back and check all your logs (BTW we need a current one) but you had "Use non-95/96 style cam angle sensor" checked in the starting log new data.ecm file. That would be the correct setting.

 

[97gsxmod]

thanks

 

[chrisman287]

You know that damaged bearings or cam journals is like the worst case scenario. And even if it gets damaged a little, the engine should still fire up as long as if they still rotate.

I had a completely spun bearing when I bought my car and it would still start and idle every single time I had to move it.

The plugs are probably fouled again from all the cranking and unsuccessful startup attempts. Not sure what cleaning method you're using, but I've never had much luck with cleaning instead of replacing.

I personally use carb cleaner let them sit a bit in some then clean with an old toothbrush and repeat until I’m satisfied with them.

 

[97gsxmod]

i compared a new log i made with my ecu setting set back to original. coolant temp looks decent in this one. ( its 34 degrees here log has temps at 20). but when i compare my chart with one provided to me here my air flow looks high for the rpm? even with my foot not on the petal. i see throttle position sensor set at -8 105 percent in the ecu. look like i need a new throttle sensor or should i just try to play with these settings?

here is the new log. set everything back to the settings the ecu was at before i messed with it and it seemed much closer to starting .

 

[steve]

when i compare my chart with one provided to me here my air flow looks high for the rpm? even with my foot not on the petal.

In this one you have MAF Comp values that add airflow at low flows, that will change the logged airflow. You might want to check the MAF and see it it's been modified by removing some of all of the honeycombs in the front of it.

If you want to continue playing with these settings enable the non 95/96 cam angle and add the additional data to the capture log so we can see the battery voltage, CrankingFuelAdj, ISCPosition, and Baro. Those InjOn times are huge and the plugs have to be fouled again.

DSMLink has a feature when if you hold the throttle all the way open while you crank it will stop injecting fuel. You could try and see if that does anything.

 

[97gsxmod]

not sure how to add additional information like battery volatge?

 

[steve]

You use F10 to open the Captured Values dialog and add the new parameters.
Once you have them in a log you use F9 to display them.

ecmlink101datalogging [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

dsmlinkloggableparams [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

 

[97gsxmod]

SHES RUNNING!!!... Running poorly but kept idle all by her self. Turned it off because it sounded kinda rough and was puffing a bunch of white smoke. (maybe head gasket or maybe that's just how a catless rough idle looks in the winter?)

Here the start up log!

You use F10 to open the Captured Values dialog and add the new parameters.
Once you have them in a log you use F9 to display them.

ecmlink101datalogging [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

dsmlinkloggableparams [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

I'll try to get some more logs of it up tomorrow with the rest of the information you requested

I'm going to try to run it tomorrow when its not 2 am. I'm hoping the rough idle was from draining the fuel rail. I primed it with gas and bled the air out but I'm assuming there could be air bubble left in the line any way? I also noticed a hissing noise coming from my fuel regulator after refilling the lines with gas and reconnecting the fuel rail hose to the fuel pressure regulator

 

[97gsxmod]

Forgot to mention what the fix was (even though I probably have some more things to fix to get her running perfect). It had bad gas!

Drained the tank by disconnecting the line that goes from the fuel rail to my Fuel Lab pressure regulator and activated the fuel pump with the ECU. Also cleaned the plugs.

Used to always have to rev her to get her to idle on start up but after switching the gas it held its own idle. But it was rough and almost felt like a missfire but I’m hoping it was just some air bubbles left in the fuel rail? I posted the log on it starting. Didn’t let it run long, was like 2 am and she’s still pretty loud. But I’ll let it run for a while tomorrow and see if the idle smooths out.

If anyone sees anything in my log that stands out lmk! Thanks for all the help guys

 

[97gsxmod]

anddd now it wont start again

 

[chrisman287]

anddd now it wont start again

Have you verified that your timing is on point?

 

[97gsxmod]

It just ran last night. I’m not sure if everything’s perfect with it but I don’t see how bad timing would make it run one day then not the next

 

[chrisman287]

It just ran last night. I’m not sure if everything’s perfect with it but I don’t see how bad timing would make it run one day then not the next

I’ve been down that road before. Yes it can affect it running

 

[steve]

I don't see anything of note that we haven't already discussed other than it starting.

 

[97gsxmod]

I don't see anything of note that we haven't already discussed other than it starting.

I’m going to try to buy new plugs. It started first try and ran by itself (with out throttling) with fresh gas, the old stuff looked real bad, so it can’t be random that must have been apart of the problem. And I’m hoping it’s just that fact that my spark plug cleaning job wasn’t ideal but was just good enough for one start. Would make sense that they are fouled beyond repair after failed start attempts with bad gas.

So hoping new spark plugs and she’ll start right up… then I can start working on the tune and getting everything running as reliably and ideally as possible. I’ve never loved and hated a car so much, but I guess that’s DSM’s?

 

[steve]

Get a couple of sets. If you don't used them near term you will later and it is better to save a trip when you need them.