2G Engine issues?

[97gsxmod]

(Continued from https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/starting-issues-with-new-to-me-modded-gsx.545572/)

Had a blown turbo that was burning oil. Replaced it and then on startup oil filter popped loose and drained all the oil while I was trying to rev the car to keep it at running (would turn off if I didn’t rev it a little on start up).

Assume the loss of oil and pressure blew f***ed my freshly built turbo but was having trouble starting the engine as well.

So I just did compression tests. Number are 130-140-140-150 on a dry test with a cold engine. These numbers don’t seem great but don’t seem bad enough to explain the engine not starting. However when pulling plugs for the test I noticed they are all black and I just put fresh ones in a month ago and only moved the car to the road then back to the drive way. Must be from the old turbo?

Had trouble starting before and I replaced the plugs and it started right up, so I’m going to try to clean these and see if it will start. But the last factor my brain in considering is the build sheet for this car said it had 1200cc injectors, this seems crazy big? Maybe that’s part of the reason I’m destroying spark plugs so quick and even with fresh ones I have to get it reving a little before it will stay at idle. Any information is greatly appreciated.

Also forgot to mention I spun the new but most likely destroyed turbo by hand to make sure this wasn’t causing the no start. It spins though, so I'm assuming its not related to my starting issues but maybe I should try cracking the intercooler to intake tube to insure it’s able to breath with the turbo?

It still spun but seemed to spin slower then when it was freshly built prior to lose of oil after install.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Your turbo is hardly part of the equation when trying to start the engine. Do a boost leak test to make sure your intake is sealed up nicely, and then go through all the basics.

 

[97gsxmod]

How would boost leakage cause a no start?

Your turbo is hardly part of the equation when trying to start the engine. Do a boost leak test to make sure your intake is sealed up nicely, and then go through all the basics.

I believe is the turbo won’t spin in can cause starting issues but not sure? It fires and wants to start but can’t get it to run for more than a second

 

[Justin DuBois]

I believe is the turbo won’t spin in can cause starting issues but not sure? It fires and wants to start but can’t get it to run for more than a second

Boost leaks/vacuum leaks bypass the fuel metering with MAF, or will cause poor SD calibration - causing a really wonky AFR

Do you have the BISS, TP sensor, and Throttle Close position switch setup?
Do you have the base fuel pressure set?
Are you getting spark on all 4 cyl?
Did it run before the last thing you did? or are you staring from scratch on a new build?

 

[97gsxmod]

Boost leaks/vacuum leaks bypass the fuel metering with MAF, or will cause poor SD calibration - causing a really wonky AFR

Do you have a the BISS, TP sensor, and Throttle Close position switch setup?

Not sure what those are so guessing no? I’ll check and see what I have to do to test boost leakage tho. Is that something I can do with the car not running?

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posted that pic in case it answers any questions I’m unable to

 

[Justin DuBois]

Not sure what those are so guessing no? I’ll check and see what I have to do to test boost leakage tho. Is that something I can do with the car not running?

A little light on the lingo? Brand new to modded cars? Thank you for the Pic - that will help.

You have yourself a bunch of performance parts on there, and you will want to spend a bit of time making sure the basics are ok - and the pic leaves me asking questions - How did you end up with this car?

I see you have a MAF on your intake - Mass Airflow Meter. This is the stock method of measuring airflow - and generally easy, but you don't have your blowoff valve plumbed back into the intake, so any air that come out of there will cause a rich condition and bog or stall between shifts.

You don't need an automatic transmission - you need to learn how to drive stick! ;-)

BISS (Base Idle Speed Set Screw) is on the throttle body under a black cap - turns in and out with screwdriver, and has an o-ring (that sometimes dries out) but in general, the starting point for that is 2 full turns out from all the way screwed in. If you have trouble keeping the engine running, you can hold the throttle open by hand until it warms up, or you can open the BISS temporally.

Boost/Vac leak test is done without a running engine. Basically, you find a way to put pressurized air into the intake of the turbo, so that all the plumbing from the turbo intake to the intake manifold is being tested. I used a 2.5" PVC pipe cap from Home depot, with a Compressor tool fitting attached to a hose so I can regulate the pressure from a standard air compressor (30psi). With the intake under static pressure, you listen for leaks, or spray couplers with soapy water looking for bubbles.

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I see you have a fuel Lab fuel pressure regulator - you need to turn on the fuel pump to set the pressure - 42.5 psi is typical on the dial without the engine running. Running, at idle vac, you would see it drop to about 37. If you can't get it this low, then you have other issues with the fuel system to figure out.

What are you using for engine management? Stock ECU? Chipped ECU? with ECM Link?

 

[pauleyman]

Also forgot to mention i spun the new but most likely destroyed turbo by hand to make sure this wasn’t causing the no start. It spins tho so in assuming its not related to my starting issues but maybe I should try cracking the intercooler to intake tube to insure it’s able to breath with the turbo ? It still spun but seemed to spin slower then when it was freshly built prior to lose of oil after install

Turbo can be locked up and the car will run.

Other questions still stand. Is this a new build or was car already running well?

 

[97gsxmod]

Other questions still stand. Is this a new build or was car already running well?

Car was an old build, I just bought it from the original owner a couple months or so back. It was running when I got it but it had the issue of needing to be reved a little at start up to be able to hold idle without dying

BISS (Base Idle Speed Set Screw) is on the throttle body under a black cap - turns in and out with screwdriver, and has an o-ring (that sometimes dries out) but in general, the starting point for that is 2 full turns out from all the way screwed in. If you have trouble keeping the engine running, you can hold the throttle open by hand until it warms up, or you can open the BISS temporally.

Boost/Vac leak test is done without a running engine. Basically, you find a way to put pressurized air into the intake of the turbo, so that all the plumbing from the turbo intake to the intake manifold is being tested. I used a 2.5" PVC pipe cap from Home depot, with a Compressor tool fitting attached to a hose so I can regulate the pressure from a standard air compressor (30psi). With the intake under static pressure, you listen for leaks, or spray couplers with soapy water looking for bubbles.

I see you have a fuel Lab fuel pressure regulator - you need to turn on the fuel pump to set the pressure - 42.5 psi is typical on the dial without the engine running. Running, at idle vac, you would see it drop to about 37. If you can't get it this low, then you have other issues with the fuel system to figure out.

What are you using for engine management? Stock ECU? Chipped ECU? with ECM Link?

Thanks ! I believe it’s running of a dcm link tune on the stock ecu. Haven’t looked at the tune yet but I assume that can be apart of my issue.
I’ll check for a boost Leak tomorrow thanks for the explanation!

What do you think of my injector size? I heard it’s overkill wondering if this is causing a rich situation.

Also what do you think of my dry cold compression test results?

A little light on the lingo? Brand new to modded cars? Thank you for the Pic - that will help.

You have yourself a bunch of performance parts on there, and you will want to spend a bit of time making sure the basics are ok - and the pic leaves me asking questions - How did you end up with this car?

I see you have a MAF on your intake - Mass Airflow Meter. This is the stock method of measuring airflow - and generally easy, but you don't have your blowoff valve plumbed back into the intake, so any air that come out of there will cause a rich condition and bog or stall between shifts.

You don't need an automatic transmission - you need to learn how to drive stick! ;-)

Yea I’m brand new to modded cars and far from a mechanic but I tried to do a little background information before I got into the car. Bought it built from the original owner a few months back

 

[Justin DuBois]

Thanks ! I believe it’s running of a dcm link tune on the stock ecu. Haven’t looked at the tune yet but I assume that can be apart of my issue.
I’ll check for a boost Leak tomorrow thanks for the explanation!

What do you think of my injector size? I heard it’s overkill wondering if this is causing a rich situation.

Also what do you think of my dry cold compression test results?

Compression is fine to start.

Injector size can be anything - 2000cc if you like - but the ECU needs to be calibrated for it.

Get the software for ECM Link installed on a laptop and connect it to the car - make a simple log and upload it to the forum like a picture. Lots of people have ECM Link and we can help you configure it.

 

[97gsxmod]

I also forgot to mention I put a muffler on my side exit pipe while rebuilding the turbo. But as I mentioned the engine originally started before the loss of oil situation I just had to rev it to keep it going so I doubt the muffler is playing any role

Compression is fine to start.

Injector size can be anything - 2000cc if you like - but the ECU needs to be calibrated for it.

Get the software for ECM Link installed on a laptop and connect it to the car - make a simple log and upload it to the forum like a picture. Lots of people have ECM Link and we can help you configure it.

Thanks! Do I need to get it running to get the log or is it just preset data?

 

[pauleyman]

Yea I’m brand new to modded cars and far from a mechanic but I tried to do a little background information before I got into the car. Bought it built from the original owner a few months back

You are chasing a ghost. I would stop here. Tell us everything that's done to the car, hat you've already tried, and you need to verify what ECU it has and what parts it has.
If it has a tune we need to know.

Basic checks need to be performed. Spark. Compression. Boost leak test. For sure you have a mass air sensor and a vented to atmosphere BOV. That will cause problems.
What else there is you need to fill in the blanks for us.

BTW what filter blew off? The main oil filter for the engine?
What is your mechanical skill level and knowledge? We don't intend to belittle you but it helps us help you.

 

[chrisman287]

Clean the plugs it should fire up

 

[97gsxmod]

Clean the plugs it should fire up

Yea that’s what worked last time so I’m going to start there but then I’m sure I’ll still have some issues to deal with that was causing black plugs but hopefully it was just the blown turbo doing it

You are chasing a ghost. I would stop here. Tell us everything that's done to the car, hat you've already tried, and you need to verify what ECU it has and what parts it has.
If it has a tune we need to know.

Basic checks need to be performed. Spark. Compression. Boost leak test. For sure you have a mass air sensor and a vented to atmosphere BOV. That will cause problems.
What else there is you need to fill in the blanks for us.

BTW what filter blew off? The main oil filter for the engine?
What is your mechanical skill level and knowledge? We don't intend to belittle you but it helps us help you.

It’s on the stock ECU and a DSMLink tune but I haven’t gotten into it.

The main oil filter flew off, why is a topic for a whole different thread. My mechanical background is just driving shitty cars my whole life and fixing them myself for the most part. Normal stuff, brakes, alternators, starts, belts, plugs. I'm in the process of rebuilding a 6g72t that I tore three engines down (2 were NA) to strip of parts and piece together. But my recent issue is preventing me from getting back to that build.

So to make a long story short basically a novice with a basic background who’s looking to learn

You are chasing a ghost. I would stop here. Tell us everything that's done to the car, hat you've already tried, and you need to verify what ECU it has and what parts it has.
If it has a tune we need to know.

I posted the build sheet here somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it. As far as I can recall it’s got 1200 cc injectors. Beehive in take cams and 272 Kelford exhaust cams, a Holset HX35 turbo that I just rebuilt and most likely ruined when oil filter leaked. Blow off to atmosphere and waste gate to atmosphere. Stock ECU with DSMLink that I haven’t checked out yet. Fuel Lab pressure regulator, and a custom side exit that I just put a muffler on that used to be straight pipe. Still catless. Stock 2G MAF sensor, and a front mount aftermarket intercooler.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

It's in the tune.
Post a running log.
I will mention you should have a current car profile so we know what YOU know or don't know.

 

[97gsxmod]

I’ll start with that thanks! I’ll see if I can figure out how to get a log tomorrow

 

[pauleyman]

Stock ecu with a tune doesnt make sense. Does it have the ecmlink chip or not? If it does its not a stock ecu, it's now an ecmlink ecu. Do you have the cable?

 

[97gsxmod]

Stock ecu with a tune doesnt make sense. Does it have the ecmlink chip or not? If it does its not a stock ecu, it's now an ecmlink ecu. Do you have the cable?

Sorry new to all the tuning stuff. I was under the impression my ecu was “ flash tuned” with the cable ( that yes i have) … but my cable isn’t currently plug in and there’s no chip with it… I thought I was supposed to use this cable to plug connect my computer to the ecu for logging and flash tuning ? I’ll take a picture of the cable to insure we are talking about the same thing, I believe it says “ecm link” on it.
When I bought the car I asked if it was stand alone ecu, link ecu, or stock ecu. And I believe he said it was a stock flashed tuned ecu with dsm link? Not sure if that makes any sense? Wasn’t something I was familiar with at the time he mentioned it ( only here of stock ecu, link ecu, and stand alone ecu) but we went for a drive and the car performed great so figured I’d just research it after and take his word.

 

[steve]

How long did you let the engine run after the oil filter came off? I'm less worried about the turbo than I am about the main bearings in the engine.

DSMLink is alternative software and hardware that goes inside the factory ECU. It allows the user to change key parameters like the injector size, timing and fuel maps to tune the engine. There are different versions of it and the cable.

 

[97gsxmod]

How long did you let the engine run after the oil filter came off? I'm less worried about the turbo than I am about the main bearings in the engine.

DSMLink is alternative software and hardware that goes inside the factory ECU. It allows the user to change key parameters like the injector size, timing and fuel maps to tune the engine. There are different versions of it and the cable.

The filter never came completely off but it dumped all the oil in the 30-120 seconds that I ran it so assuming it wasn’t properly lubricating most of the components before it finished dumping all the oil. I imagine it must have finished dumping right around when I turned it off. Hard to know for sure the exact amount of time tho, but I was reving it up and down from like 1500 to 3000 rpm because it normally has trouble holding idle with out giving it a little gas.

 

[pauleyman]

How long did you let the engine run after the oil filter came off? I'm less worried about the turbo than I am about the main bearings in the engine.

DSMLink is alternative software and hardware that goes inside the factory ECU. It allows the user to change key parameters like the injector size, timing and fuel maps to tune the engine. There are different versions of it and the cable.

Three options exist. A stock ecu without a chip. An ecu that can have an ecmlink chip installed called a factory EPROM ecu. The 98 99 black box flashable ecu which is entirely different than ecmlink. You need to figure out what you have.

 

[97gsxmod]

Thanks, I’ll check it out tomorrow and see what I can figure out. My interpretation of what I was told from the owner is that the ecu was stock but also tuned somehow with the ECMLink cord but I guess that’s not a thing than exists?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Thanks, I’ll check it out tomorrow and see what I can figure out. My interpretation of what I was told from the owner is that the ecu was stock but also tuned somehow with the ECMLink cord but I guess that’s not a thing than exists?

Post a picture of the cable. Does it look like a long black cable or is it a clear square thing that you plug a laptop into?

 

[97gsxmod]

Post a picture of the cable. Does it look like a long black cable or is it a clear square thing that you plug a laptop into?

I’ll get one up tomorrow

But it’s about a foot or two long and a black cable that says ecm link on it

 

[97gsxmod]

Post a picture of the cable. Does it look like a long black cable or is it a clear square thing that you plug a laptop into?

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[steve]

That's a 2G DSMLink V3 OBD 2 to USB cable.
Download the client software to a laptop and get a log file to post here.