2G Engine issues?

[97gsxmod]

(Continued from https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/starting-issues-with-new-to-me-modded-gsx.545572/)

Had a blown turbo that was burning oil. Replaced it and then on startup oil filter popped loose and drained all the oil while I was trying to rev the car to keep it at running (would turn off if I didn’t rev it a little on start up).

Assume the loss of oil and pressure blew f***ed my freshly built turbo but was having trouble starting the engine as well.

So I just did compression tests. Number are 130-140-140-150 on a dry test with a cold engine. These numbers don’t seem great but don’t seem bad enough to explain the engine not starting. However when pulling plugs for the test I noticed they are all black and I just put fresh ones in a month ago and only moved the car to the road then back to the drive way. Must be from the old turbo?

Had trouble starting before and I replaced the plugs and it started right up, so I’m going to try to clean these and see if it will start. But the last factor my brain in considering is the build sheet for this car said it had 1200cc injectors, this seems crazy big? Maybe that’s part of the reason I’m destroying spark plugs so quick and even with fresh ones I have to get it reving a little before it will stay at idle. Any information is greatly appreciated.

Also forgot to mention I spun the new but most likely destroyed turbo by hand to make sure this wasn’t causing the no start. It spins though, so I'm assuming its not related to my starting issues but maybe I should try cracking the intercooler to intake tube to insure it’s able to breath with the turbo?

It still spun but seemed to spin slower then when it was freshly built prior to lose of oil after install.

 

[97gsxmod]

I cleaned the plugs and got it to start this morning but it wouldn’t stay running let alone hold idol. Shot out a good amount of white smoke from the tail pipe then died. Trying to figure some of this tuning stuff out at the moment

That's a 2G DSMLink V3 OBD 2 to USB cable.
Download the client software to a laptop and get a log file to port here.

Getting on that now, thanks!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That will be your friend. Dedicate a used laptop to the car. All 3 of my DSMs have their own laptops. In the grand scheme of things, it's a small investment. I grabbed one on Ebay for $80 and then my ex wanted one so I bought another. Just a tip.
Once you can get it to connect and talk to the car, we can all be of A LOT more assistance.
On the filter coming loose, I have had that also. Get a hose clamp around your filter and then "safety wire" the clamp to something SOLID so it doesn't come loose again if you want peace of mind. Our motors can be "buzzy" which loosens shit up that you wouldn't think about normally.

 

[chrisman287]

I cleaned the plugs and got it to start this morning but it wouldn’t stay running let alone hold idol. Shot out a good amount of white smoke from the tail pipe then died. Trying to figure some of this tuning stuff out at the moment

That’s with trying to hold the idle with the throttle? Smoke might be extra fuel from the previous start attempts

 

[steve]

Smoke might be extra fuel from the previous start attempts

Or just because it's cold out.

 

[97gsxmod]

just got some old logs on to the laptop. how do i post one here?

this work?

 

[97gsxmod]

this work?

 

[Justin DuBois]

this work?

You don’t need to export to csv, you can post the native file saved as a .elg file. It’s necessary to see the direct access tables, and ecu config in the logs.

 

[97gsxmod]

You don’t need to export to csv, you can post the native file saved as a .elg file. It’s necessary to see the direct access tables, and ecu config in the logs.

Sorry new to all this have no idea what I’m doing here. I’ll see if I can do some research and figure it out. Does what I posted work or is the file supposed to be different? Also have one more log I’m trying to get up

These better?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Better. I am on my phone but can see it is an .elg file, which is what we need.

 

[97gsxmod]

Better. I am on my phone but can see it is an .elg file, which is what we need.

Thanks for letting me know!

 

[Justin DuBois]

?

Yeah - that's the right format. I am looking at the ECU setup, and I think part of the issue might be the injector size in global fuel is set for 500-600cc injectors and the MAF comp is setup for a GM MAF?

Can you confirm what size injectors and MAF you actually have?

 

[97gsxmod]

Thanks for the help man! I’ll check out the MAF and double check with the old owner on the injector size. I believe the MAF is stock and he said the injectors were 1200cc but that sounded kinda big

 

[Justin DuBois]

Thanks for the help man! I’ll check out the maf and double check with the old owner on the injector size. I believe the maf is stock and He said the injectors were 1200cc but that sounded kinda big

It would explain the Rich condition of the plug if you are running 1200cc with the injector setup for 600cc. If the actual MAF is "stock", we can fix that too.

 

[97gsxmod]

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MAF definitely doesn’t look like a GM. Haven’t heard back from original owner but I have the original listing for the car and it says 1200cc injectors so I’d assume the 600cc is the error.

Would it make more sense to pull injectors and double check or just switch to 1200cc on the ECU and test it? Assuming if those errors exist I should probably check stuff like my actual fuel pressure vs ECU settings. There's a fuel lab pressure regulator installed.

And to say this was a huge help is an understatement. If this fixes the car I definitely have to pay you something! Thanks again!

 

[Justin DuBois]

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Maf definitely doesn’t look like a gm. Haven’t heard back from original owner but I have the original listing for the car and it says 1200cc injectors so I’d assume the 600cc is the error. Would it make more sense to pull injectors and double check or just switch to 1200cc on the ecu and test it? Assuming if those errors exist I should probably check stuff like my actual fuel pressure vs ecu settings. Theres a fuel lab pressure regulator installed.

And to say this was a huge help is an understatement. If this fixes the car I definitely have to pay you something! Thanks again!

Pay it forward - someone always needs a hand.

I'm wondering if the "street" logs are recently captured. We want to look at the current ECU config. If you are finding these on the laptop somewhere, these could be from any time. Default log file names usually have a date in the name.

Can you connect the laptop to the car and establish a connection, The engine does not need to be running.

1. Launch ECM Link, Note the path in the "Next file:" field. Click start capture, when the live log starts, press the throttle open and closed a couple times, then click Stop capture.

2. Locate the new log at the path noted above, and upload that to this thread.

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[97gsxmod]

I tried to get a new log when I downloaded the old ones but wasn’t aware I had to press the throttle. I believe I downloaded some new logs on to my computer but i wasn’t hitting the throttle so when I looked over them they didn’t seem to have much information. I’ll do it again this time while pressing the throttle.

greatly appreciated
How about I pay it forward to you and you can pay it back to the next guy who’s struggling with his dsm

 

[Justin DuBois]

I tried to get a new log when I downloaded the old ones but wasn’t aware I had to press the throttle. I believe I downloaded some new logs on to my computer but i wasn’t hitting the throttle so when I looked over them they didn’t seem to have much information. I’ll do it again this time while pressing the throttle.

greatly appreciated
How about I pay it forward to you and you can pay it back to the next guy who’s struggling with his dsm

Pressing the throttle gives you some Throttle Position data (squiggly lines) so it is easy to identify that you made the log - it is not required.

 

[97gsxmod]

new log #1

 

[97gsxmod]

new log#2

 

[97gsxmod]

Pressing the throttle gives you some Throttle Position data (squiggly lines) so it is easy to identify that you made the log - it is not required.

looks like the injectors are set to 900cc on the new log. should i just switch them to 1200cc and try to start the car?

 

[Pjj]

Not sure what those are so guessing no? I’ll check and see what I have to do to test boost leakage tho. Is that something I can do with the car not running?

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posted that pic in case it answers any questions I’m unable to

what exhaust manifold is that?

 

[97gsxmod]

what exhaust manifold is that?

what exhaust manifold is that?

Stock manifold cut with new header pipes welded on

 

[Justin DuBois]

new log#2

OK Good work. I've looked at the ECU config, and will note the items that look incorrect based on the picture of your engine bay. There are lots of non-stock settings in here that tend to indicate this ECU was used for Speed Density at one point - but it is not running Speed Density today. Speed Density requires wiring in a GM IAT (intake air temp) The sensor would normally be in the high pressure intake path after the inter-cooler but before the throttle body. The IAT sensor input would also need to use one of the existing ECU inputs used by the MAF. I'm going to assume that the wiring to the MAF is setup for MAF - but this is something you may need to confirm physically, as SD modifications may not have been un-done correctly. - I also see other Direct Access tables have been modified (timing and AFR targets) but we will get to those later.

Anyways - lets look at this assuming you will be running with a stock 2G MAF, and we can ignore the speed density mode for now.

Starting at the top - RPM/TPS

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Target Idle - 750 is stock, I use 800. Targeting a higher value here to keep the engine running isn't a solution.

Because you provided a log with TPS, data from 0-100% - I did a RightClick on the log and used ECM Link TPS adjust to find the current min and max values:

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You can do the same or use these values:

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Fuel:

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Note - your global fuel is set to -50%
If we open the calculator and put in some 1200cc injector starting points, we would have a different number -62.5 - and this is OK to reference, but it is not a hard rule. The Global Fuel value will change away from the calculated value. The calculator is an ideal estimate and only the starting point.

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Timing TAB: (never use)

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You should reset this. The Fuel curves, and the Timing curves here in the ECU config are not normally adjusted away from 0. Reset these. Timing and fuel are controlled in other ways.

MAF Comp:

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This tab looks OK, and you do have some MAF calibration data included, and it is being used. IMO, you should reset this curve to 0 and start over. It is better to get the setup 99% calibrated without a MAF Comp curve, and then use this last.

MAF Clamp: - Looked ok - not used.
Speed Density: - Whacked - this is not a stock table. General school of thought is to scale the results so that no cell is over 100%. This table is not currently in use, but if you do ever enable Speed Density - this table will need to be re-visited.

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AUXMaps: (OK not used)

Idle air: (OK not used)

NB o2 Sim: (OK not used - unless you are not running a stock front 02 sensor?) Narrow band simulation is for people who have a Wideband, and are not using a stock 02 sensor. I run both - stock 02 and wideband. It depends on how the ECU inputs are configured for your setup.

ALS/Knock: ALS (I could never make this work) Knock (ok as is - Looking for knock over 3000rpm and above 60% Throttle position is ok

FPSFuel pressure solenoid) I run one - I enable normal operation with one. It raises fuel pressure by blocking the vacuum from the FPR at start time. (not required)

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EGR: (disabled). I don't see the emissions hardware on the fire wall - so disabled

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Boost (WGS) (Waste Gate Solenoid): ECU based boost control is disabled (OK)

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Dash: OK, I like to have my check engine light flash when the knock sensor lights up. You can set as you like - cosmetic.

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Misc: Fans on full? All the time? Disable that. Also, you are running a "Non 95/96" CAM sensor (I see a 97+ sensor on the head) - so I would enable this. It sets the injector sequence. You want the right injector to fire in sequence with the valves. This will smooth out the idle.

BTW - when you are setting your base fuel pressure - you can use the fuel pump relay switch here to temporarily enable the pump - without the engine running. (green arrow)

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DTC's: IF you NEVER want to use the ECU built in diagnostics to turn on the Check engine Light - leave this as is. I however like to know what the ECU code thinks about the engine performance, so I use some of these. Since you don't have emissions hooked up, you will want to leave EVAP/EGR/MDP and Cat efficiency/02 disabled.

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ECU inputs: (Lots of missing stuff here)

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In order for the stock sensor inputs to be used for other things, you need to program them here. Right now the ECU assumes you are running a stock Front and Rear 02, and there is no MAP (boost) pressure sensor configured, and no WideBand configured. Also - the rear 02 sensor is currently locked to a fixed input value. People typically do lock the rear 02 if they are using that channel for something else (like a WideBand), and lock the manifold differential pressure (MDP) if they are using that channel for a MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure)

This tab is where you need to spend some time figuring out what sensors you have installed - and then configure the ECU inputs for them.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Stock manifold cut with new header pipes welded on

Steel welded to cast iron? Keep an eye on that. I expect cracking.

 

[97gsxmod]

OK Good work. I've looked at the ECU config, and will note the items that look incorrect based on the picture of your engine bay. There are lots of non-stock settings in here that tend to indicate this ECU was used for Speed Density at one point - but it is not running Speed Density today. Speed Density requires wiring in a GM IAT (intake air temp) The sensor would normally be in the high pressure intake path after the inter-cooler but before the throttle body. The IAT sensor input would also need to use one of the existing ECU inputs used by the MAF. I'm going to assume that the wiring to the MAF is setup for MAF - but this is something you may need to confirm physically, as SD modifications may not have been un-done correctly. - I also see other Direct Access tables have been modified (timing and AFR targets) but we will get to those later.

Anyways - lets look at this assuming you will be running with a stock 2G MAF, and we can ignore the speed density mode for now.

Starting at the top - RPM/TPS

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Target Idle - 750 is stock, I use 800. Targeting a higher value here to keep the engine running isn't a solution.

Because you provided a log with TPS, data from 0-100% - I did a RightClick on the log and used ECM Link TPS adjust to find the current min and max values:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You can do the same or use these values:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Fuel:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Note - your global fuel is set to -50%
If we open the calculator and put in some 1200cc injector starting points, we would have a different number -62.5 - and this is OK to reference, but it is not a hard rule. The Global Fuel value will change away from the calculated value. The calculator is an ideal estimate and only the starting point.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Timing TAB: (never use)

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You should reset this. The Fuel curves, and the Timing curves here in the ECU config are not normally adjusted away from 0. Reset these. Timing and fuel are controlled in other ways.

MAF Comp:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This tab looks OK, and you do have some MAF calibration data included, and it is being used. IMO, you should reset this curve to 0 and start over. It is better to get the setup 99% calibrated without a MAF Comp curve, and then use this last.

MAF Clamp: - Looked ok - not used.
Speed Density: - Whacked - this is not a stock table. General school of thought is to scale the results so that no cell is over 100%. This table is not currently in use, but if you do ever enable Speed Density - this table will need to be re-visited.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

AUXMaps: (OK not used)

Idle air: (OK not used)

NB o2 Sim: (OK not used - unless you are not running a stock front 02 sensor?) Narrow band simulation is for people who have a Wideband, and are not using a stock 02 sensor. I run both - stock 02 and wideband. It depends on how the ECU inputs are configured for your setup.

ALS/Knock: ALS (I could never make this work) Knock (ok as is - Looking for knock over 3000rpm and above 60% Throttle position is ok

FPSFuel pressure solenoid) I run one - I enable normal operation with one. It raises fuel pressure by blocking the vacuum from the FPR at start time. (not required)

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EGR: (disabled). I don't see the emissions hardware on the fire wall - so disabled

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Boost (WGS) (Waste Gate Solenoid): ECU based boost control is disabled (OK)

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Dash: OK, I like to have my check engine light flash when the knock sensor lights up. You can set as you like - cosmetic.

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Misc: Fans on full? All the time? Disable that. Also, you are running a "Non 95/96" CAM sensor (I see a 97+ sensor on the head) - so I would enable this. It sets the injector sequence. You want the right injector to fire in sequence with the valves. This will smooth out the idle.

BTW - when you are setting your base fuel pressure - you can use the fuel pump relay switch here to temporarily enable the pump - without the engine running. (green arrow)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

DTC's: IF you NEVER want to use the ECU built in diagnostics to turn on the Check engine Light - leave this as is. I however like to know what the ECU code thinks about the engine performance, so I use some of these. Since you don't have emissions hooked up, you will want to leave EVAP/EGR/MDP and Cat efficiency/02 disabled.

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ECU inputs: (Lots of missing stuff here)

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In order for the stock sensor inputs to be used for other things, you need to program them here. Right now the ECU assumes you are running a stock Front and Rear 02, and there is no MAP (boost) pressure sensor configured, and no WideBand configured. Also - the rear 02 sensor is currently locked to a fixed input value. People typically do lock the rear 02 if they are using that channel for something else (like a WideBand)

This tab is where you need to spend some time figuring out what sensors you have installed - and then configure the ECU inputs for them.

thanks!!! starting to work on getting all fixed now.

that right up was exceptional!