Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[BLACK'98DSM]

What's missing to have a functioning air conditioning system?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Next it’ll have A/C. Then it’ll truly be a 100% street car.

We know how to make A/C work! Is your compressor r12 or 134a? I thought the 1G's came with r12 compressors.

 

[CrackedDSM]

What's missing to have a functioning air conditioning system?

Pretty much just time and elbow grease. I have an o-ring replacement kit, I have all the hard parts. The total list of what it'd need is roughly:

1) install compressor
2) Install Compressor bracket & belt. Tighten.
3) Replace o-rings everywhere in system.
4) Pull vacuum on system, make sure it doesn't leak.
5) Fill with Freon. I still haven't decided if I want to convert it to 134A, or go with computer duster which works just like R12 and is cheap AF.

We know how to make A/C work! Is your compressor r12 or 134a? I thought the 1G's came with r12 compressors.

They came with R12, yes. I have all the R134A conversion parts, but I've recently learned (and fact-checked/seen it in action) that you can use cans of computer duster as an R12 replacement. It's environmentally friendly, non-flammable, is absolutely bottom of the barrel cheap, and is a superior refrigerant to R134A/works as good as R12 does. I still haven't really decided which avenue I wanna go down. Once I have more time and money, and once it's summer and I hate driving the car in 106* temps w/ 98% humidity, I'll probably make time. Lol.



Also as an update: Had a good friend confirm that the car is slow because I suck at racing a manual. Lol. Launch is good, but he pointed out my shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 are taking like over half a second. I'm absolutely granny shifting this thing. He's an experienced and seasoned DSMer and said he honestly feels the car should rip into the 7's with nothing else changed, just a driver mod. He would absolutely know too. So, I'm not even a little bit embarrassed by that. It's awesome to know what the car has in it, and mechanically it's sorted. The nut behind the wheel needs work. So that's the goal. 7's in the 1/8th changing nothing. Not more boost, not better fuel, not a more aggressive tune, nothing. I think actually shifting from 1-2 and 2-3 like a racer is a great start.

 

[CrackedDSM]

This thing will blow the tires off of it if you launch it too hard. I thought the clutch was slipping tonight because I did a hot-lap, but after checking some things...discovered it was wheel spin.


I don't know why, but that's hilarious to me. I guess I should start messing with air pressures and coilover settings to help traction but IDK. Someone mentioned that wheel spin saves the driveline.


So yeah. Guess I need the obligatory "spinz4" license plate now.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Wheel spin is far better than clutch slippage, and definitely better than a sudden jolt on the driveshaft. I reached a point of running 24psi in my tires to get a good launch on my FWD, but it was oh so rough on the drivetrain. Even poly mounts were twisting up.

I always convert to R134 just for sake of on the shelf availability. I've never heard of using aerosol duster as an alternative, but if it works then go for it I suppose. I've seen guys use propane since it cools almost as good as R12, but I never liked the idea. The A/C lines are too close to the exhaust manifold IMO.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Wheel spin is far better than clutch slippage, and definitely better than a sudden jolt on the driveshaft. I reached a point of running 24psi in my tires to get a good launch on my FWD, but it was oh so rough on the drivetrain. Even poly mounts were twisting up.

I always convert to R134 just for sake of on the shelf availability. I've never heard of using aerosol duster as an alternative, but if it works then go for it I suppose. I've seen guys use propane since it cools almost as good as R12, but I never liked the idea. The A/C lines are too close to the exhaust manifold IMO.

I heard about propane too, but I am 100% with you. Not worth at best a fire, at worst an explosion. It’s only certain cans of computer duster that’s basically a form of R12. I forget the formula but it’s actual refrigerant. It’s just deregulated. I’m hesitant to spread that info around though because I don’t want them catching on to that and making it scarce like they do with everything.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'm hording 6 cans of R12. Hoping to get one of my DSMs working and my 87 IROC working. I have converted to R134a on 2 of my DD's and they cool fine. Since you are further south, if air duster works, let us know how good

 

[CrackedDSM]

Well, I had a parts car stumble into my lap and it was a screaming deal. So I bought it. I paid $400 for it and I’ll post up pictures later.


I’m excited. It’s got really good bones. It’s a little too far gone to make running again, and it’s not got a title…but man this car is so straight.

Only caveat is it’s a 90.

 

[1cleangsx]

Nice!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Here it is, and the more I look at it the more I scored. The guy I bought it from says he was told it’s a built engine and that it’s “locked up” but can’t prove it. But..yeah. Pictures first.

It's rough at first glance...but bro this body is SO STRAIGHT. The pinch welds under the car are PERFECTLY laser straight. No rust on any of the subframes, no major dents or dings except 1) on the passenger side front fender, looks easy to get out 2) One on the pass side rear quarter panel right near the exterior vent/trim. Also looks easy to pound out from the inside.

The interior is screwed as you can see, but it's got really solid bones. As I said, the previous owner said he was told the engine was built and transmission was "built" but couldn't prove it and was honest about it. He said he was told that "There's a chip in the ECU to help make it fast". This is important. First thing I did after handing him his $400 cash, was pull the ECU and pop the cover off. It has "rebuild and ship back" written on it, so I popped the cover off aaanndd..

It's a chipped EPROM!! Already socketed, and there have been extensive repairs done. Since it's a 90 ECU I'm gonna test it in my Talon and make sure it works first. But this pays for half of the car alone if it's good. So that's one part of what he was told is true...let's rip the VC off and check that.

This head is brand new!! And those are not OEM DSM cams. It has ARP headstuds, and Crower (or brian crower, but it has crower stamped the retainer though, I think BC has "BC0101" on theirs) springs and retainers, and unknown aftermarket cams. I shone a bright light down one of the sparkplug holes and the pistons are shiny metal, not black or gray like OEM. I think this thing has a f*cking built motor! He said he was told it was "locked up" but I'm skeptical. Once I get the car in my hands, I'm gonna pull the pan and check out the crank/bearings. If it's just a spun bearing...that's a built engine, socketed EPROM ECU, and good 90 trans/tcase I got for $400. There's other plusses too including but not limited to:

1) absolutely rock solid ZERO shaft-play 14B that looks brand new. That turbine housing isn't rusted yet at all, and the CHRA ring clamp is still shiny metal. It doesn't move a millimeter and spins free and great.
2) The harness is old, but great. It's not hacked up, missing pieces, or eaten by critters. Interior electronics are also all there and unmessed with. Even if it's a 90...that's tempting.
3) The transmission goes into all gears smooth AF, and that shifter feels gated. It feels...new. IDK how to describe it.
4) It has random electronics like an OG model AEM TruBoost with the solenoid and wiring. The gauge face is pretty rough, but I can get a new one or fix/polish this one.
5) The sending unit is mint, and not rusty or stripped out or missing anything.


And on and on and on. Overall...I'm not gonna lie to you guys...I am extremely tempted to fix this thing. I bought it as a parts car...but it feels like a crime to crush/strip such a clean shell. I can get a bonded title for it pretty easily. IDK. What do you guys think? Score a deal or nah?

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Nice score. I'm glad you can see through the junk and to what's usable/valuable. I hope you thoroughly tear that ting apart before scrapping it. Or maybe even put a running engine in it and let somebody else take care if it

Honestly 400 bucks is a steal even with the condition of certain parts, and the ridiculous door graphic. I've paid that much at the junkyard just to keep shit around.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Nice score. I'm glad you can see through the junk and to what's usable/valuable. I hope you thoroughly tear that ting apart before scrapping it. Or maybe even put a running engine in it and let somebody else take care if it

Honestly 400 bucks is a steal even with the condition of certain parts, and the ridiculous door graphic. I've paid that much at the junkyard just to keep shit around.

I'm gonna let it sit, and thankfully I don't have to be in any hurry. So I'll think long and hard about it. But the temptation to just throw an interior in it, get a title for it, and fix the engine is real. I'd just keep the 14B and keep it a simple 14B setup. Or auto swap it. IDK. Lol.


If anyone wants to tradesies this for their auto AWD 1G in similar condition...hit me up.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Well, she’s officially an alcoholic.

Only had to take some out of global, but otherwise it seems to love it. I’ll do some logs later and see how the IDCs are. Might have to step up to some 1200cc injectors.

 

[bastarddsm]

Since you tried not to be a dick, I’ll return the favor and repeat what I’ve listed in this thread already.

1) timing is at 11* up top. AFR is at 10.9-11.0. Yes it’s soft, yes it’s on purpose.

2) Not launching hard. Still learning and trying to perfect the technique and helping my trans and tcase to last.

3) granny shifting. Again, not trying to destroy the trans.

4) it creeps to 24lbs at basically redline. From 3.5-6800RPM it’s only at like 16-17lbs. This is again, on purpose.

5) it’s not on E85. Only literally within the last week is it now on roughly E40ish.


I am curious what the weight is on your all motor 1G. This car has a full sound system, leather interior, and every single interior panel possible. And I keep it at a full tank at all times.

I’m curious what your all motor car would run with timing at 11* and running 11.0 AFRs.


It’s slow on purpose. I’m learning the basics and how to properly drive and race a 5 speed DSM before I throw the kitchen sink at it and go full effort. I mentioned this before as well, but it bears repeating.

That doesn't make sense Not launching hard, but crank up the antilag... It's soft, but I'm going to go 11's or buy a red....WTF. Rich and 11* of timing is not *safe* you know that right? Trying not to destroy it but also trying to destroy it at the same time. FYI at 16-17psi E40=E85 besides the change in global. Even at 24 it don't mean much.

That screen shot you posted looks like a lot more stiffer of a tune than you claim is in it. Looks pretty well over 20psi the whole thing, and looks like 14* at the end....
Either way at 24psi it's moving 34lbs/min at 7300 - that's f***ed. That's not much more air than my all motor car does with no boost on a hot summer night. My turbo car is like 60lbs/min dude. SIXTY! that's not a fair comparison though I guess, because I worked at it and fixed the problems instead of making excuses.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/im-an-11-sec-pump-gas-bi-now.72438/ og green 23psi and 93oct in a heavy car. On a SAFC/MAFT to boot. That guy/car would go 10's with ecmlink and E85 on that car - in fact I think he did a few years later.

The all motor car is 2250 with driver. Its right at 300hp. With 11:1 AFR on a gas scale and 11* total timing, it will still make your car look like it's in reverse. It might slow down to a 12.0 from an 11.7 on E85 Instead of reading the forum tuning gossip, go rent a dyno and learn what you don't know. I can take 10* of timing out of it and it's not going to loose 5hp, you are less than 10* from where your timing should probably be.

I'll give you another free one, when I first got the car going and tuned it ran well. Went 12teens on it's very first pass. Then it slowed down. I was at the shootout and busy so I didn't get a chance to check the logs. The AIT sensor failed and it went from like 11.5 to 8:1 afr. I went to the track the next weekend and it ran 12.10@112 or something. And I found the AFR issue, and just locked the ait to ambient. Car goes 11.99@113 back to 11.5 AFR where it made max power on the dyno. 8:1 to 11.15:1 and it picked up like 10hp.

So tell me, how much power is it going to pickup getting the timing up tp 17-18 and going from 11.0 to 12.5 or whatever the etooooonerz say is max powr afr these days....
.

 

[miliman13]

Omg that is beyond a “score” just the head alone….. so jelly , you keeping it ? You know I’m in Florida and have been dying for a 1G pop up lights that hasn’t been gutted to bear metal.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Omg that is beyond a “score” just the head alone….. so jelly , you keeping it ? You know I’m in Florida and have been dying for a 1G pop up lights that hasn’t been gutted to bear metal.

It doesn't have a title, so you'd have to get a bonded title...but honestly if you let me keep the head I'd sell the car for what I have in it. PM me if you're serious.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Parts came in today.

Kinda cool. The bearings when you open them all say KOYO on them. Seem super high quality. And that front wheel bearing is MONSTROUS. Heavy SOB .

Can’t wait to see what difference this makes. Very interested to see how they look.

I have the outer dust seals coming too and are NOS OEM ones.

 

[1cleangsx]

Nice score on the parts car!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Nice score on the parts car!

Thanks. I'm excited to dive in to the motor and see whats up with it. Been too long since I've built an engine.

 

[1cleangsx]

If it’s “built” are you gonna re fresh it and swap it into the current Talon?

 

[CrackedDSM]

If it’s “built” are you gonna re fresh it and swap it into the current Talon?

Yessir. it’s said to be “locked up” so I’m very interested in if it’s actually locked up and if so: what caused it.


But goal it throw it in the talon either way. If it’s not built I’m gonna build it. If I keep the parts car I’m gonna keep it like 14b/16G sized simple street setup.

 

[Ludachris]

That doesn't make sense Not launching hard, but crank up the antilag... It's soft, but I'm going to go 11's or buy a red....WTF. Rich and 11* of timing is not *safe* you know that right? Trying not to destroy it but also trying to destroy it at the same time. FYI at 16-17psi E40=E85 besides the change in global. Even at 24 it don't mean much.

That screen shot you posted looks like a lot more stiffer of a tune than you claim is in it. Looks pretty well over 20psi the whole thing, and looks like 14* at the end....
Either way at 24psi it's moving 34lbs/min at 7300 - that's f***ed. That's not much more air than my all motor car does with no boost on a hot summer night. My turbo car is like 60lbs/min dude. SIXTY! that's not a fair comparison though I guess, because I worked at it and fixed the problems instead of making excuses.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/im-an-11-sec-pump-gas-bi-now.72438/ og green 23psi and 93oct in a heavy car. On a SAFC/MAFT to boot. That guy/car would go 10's with ecmlink and E85 on that car - in fact I think he did a few years later.

The all motor car is 2250 with driver. Its right at 300hp. With 11:1 AFR on a gas scale and 11* total timing, it will still make your car look like it's in reverse. It might slow down to a 12.0 from an 11.7 on E85 Instead of reading the forum tuning gossip, go rent a dyno and learn what you don't know. I can take 10* of timing out of it and it's not going to loose 5hp, you are less than 10* from where your timing should probably be.

I'll give you another free one, when I first got the car going and tuned it ran well. Went 12teens on it's very first pass. Then it slowed down. I was at the shootout and busy so I didn't get a chance to check the logs. The AIT sensor failed and it went from like 11.5 to 8:1 afr. I went to the track the next weekend and it ran 12.10@112 or something. And I found the AFR issue, and just locked the ait to ambient. Car goes 11.99@113 back to 11.5 AFR where it made max power on the dyno. 8:1 to 11.15:1 and it picked up like 10hp.

So tell me, how much power is it going to pickup getting the timing up tp 17-18 and going from 11.0 to 12.5 or whatever the etooooonerz say is max powr afr these days....
.

So besides telling him his car isn't tuned right or has an issue somewhere, what's the point of trolling him in his own build thread where he's sharing his progress on his build? Is it genuinely to help him solve some things or just to call him out and poke fun at his failure to get the maximum performance out of his car, when he's already stated that isn't the top priority for him yet?

 

[TheDude236]

Welcome to the 2 Talon club @CrackedDSM! Neat little pickup!

Any plans to try and revive that car? Maybe a track toy? Or is it going to be strictly a parts car?

Edit: Zoomer brain read straight past all the talk about it probably just being a parts car. Not sure if you're into performance driving or not but you could totally keep that thing around, strip the interior, and have a great cheap autocross build.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Welcome to the 2 Talon club @CrackedDSM! Neat little pickup!

Any plans to try and revive that car? Maybe a track toy? Or is it going to be strictly a parts car?

Edit: Zoomer brain read straight past all the talk about it probably just being a parts car. Not sure if you're into performance driving or not but you could totally keep that thing around, strip the interior, and have a great cheap autocross build.

I'm kinda 50/50 at this point. I was 100% gung ho about it being a parts car and just to get rid of it after taking what I wanted, but now that I've seen the car and seen its condition it really does feel a shame to strip it bare and junk it. Its dirty, but so straight and clean. IDK. I may look into auto swapping it and make it into a comfy daily and make the AMS Talon more of a weekend cruiser/fair weather cruiser.

I talk a big game with plans, but we'll see what actually happens.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Since I have to wait another week to do the wheel bearings and stuff, I went ahead and ordered the rest of the suspension stuff too. Ball joints, inner and outer tie-rods. So that way it'll all be nice and tight again. If I had the cash, I'd love to get the Volk Metal Craft adjustable upper and lower control arms for the rear, but alas. Funds are looooow until the new paychecks from the new job start rolling in.

I will probably just eyeball the alignment until I can afford those, then take it to get professionally aligned since I'll have the upper/lowers from VMC. Either way, fun stuff.