10.3 on Fp68 HTA 16G

[forcefed86]

She ran a new best of 132mph on the snow tires this weekend and still runs 10.3 on the snow tires

Thats it I'm buyin snow tires tomorrow!

Were the tires the same height/width as your previous set?

Great results!

How would you go about tuning for a better launch with an automatic? I have a 1G with a bolton Holset H1C running E85 that I'm planning to drag race, but it takes me probably 10 seconds to get to 5psi, after that the boost rises faster. I've played with timing a little with no good results, and fixing boost leaks didn't really help. I'm wanting to say with a stock engine, but I'm thinking I may have to go with a 2.4 or at least higher compression (I'm not spending 5-600+ to restall the converter). On the street I get 20-25psi at around 3500rpms, and it never seems laggy at all anywhere except trying to launch.

Sure you don't have an exhaust leak? Hit it with a 50 shot while your still on the brake. Works wonders. Had mine set to turn the nitrous off at 18psi. (this was on a 3.8) You may be able to get away with a 35 shot or so...

 

[LucasEnglish]

The snow tires are about the same size.

We have a 35r auto and a 40shot does great on getting the spool up.

I would ditech the H1C I think they are a little worse then a 14b in total hp out put with about 3000rpm less spool. (I am a Holset hater)

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm seeing 40lb/min using a calibrated 2g maf with my h1c. (Not like a 14b could pull that off) . . . His spool speed is on par with my manual in a 3rd gear pull. . . What do you think he can do to increase the boost before launch? I'm debating swapping BACK to auto. I'm thinking there just needs to be more fuel dumped as the turbine wheel size goes up, right? Retard timing to have the "fire" still there at blow-down and add more an more fuel as you need more and more energy to spin a larger and larger turbine wheel.

One other thing Jrohner, have you actually been fooling with the fuel while building boost on the line? That info might help him answer your question more thoroughly.

 

[LucasEnglish]

What a Key board racer answer. I can take and play with my MAFT settings and make what ever LB/min I want. What kinda of hp does it make on a DynoJet. What kinda of 1/4mi times or at lest mph does it run.

I have had 2 guys with HX35 and H1c and they can barely get over 300whp. Maybe they are in the wrong housing. I know about 4 years ago my buddy took off his small 16g in place for a HX35/bullseye and after we put the 16g back on after a week.

I'm seeing 40lb/min using a calibrated 2g maf with my h1c. (Not like a 14b could pull that off) . . . His spool speed is on par with my manual in a 3rd gear pull. . . What do you think he can do to increase the boost before launch? I'm debating swapping BACK to auto. I'm thinking there just needs to be more fuel dumped as the turbine wheel size goes up, right? Retard timing to have the "fire" still there at blow-down and add more an more fuel as you need more and more energy to spin a larger and larger turbine wheel.

One other thing Jrohner, have you actually been fooling with the fuel while building boost on the line? That info might help him answer your question more thoroughly.

 

[dsm-onster]

I can't inflate my airflow numbers so much and still net a 2.1sec 70-90 time at 19psi with stock manifolds and fp2 cams. Not that such a 70-90 is impressive, but isn't begotten from such a botched tune mucking with a maf reading; if I had the time to propogate such a conspiracy in the first place. I was simply giving my results of varified flow. Afterall anyone can see whether or not the maf is calibrated and thus accurate. Mucking with a MAFT would easily be detected with a link log.

Regardless, I didn't want to actually clutter your thread.. . . But for track proof, since apparently you do want the clutter: I don't know a full weight awd dsm with 126mph trap speed using stock manifolds and hks 272s on a 2.0l with stock 1g compression and the 'wrong housing'. . . which was running a 14b, or a small 16g. Concerning dyno numbers, any lower reading dynos count?. . .

So much for the rather low 'keyboard racing' comment; since it's not like many arn't intelligent enough to see if their maf is reading accurately or arn't capable of seeing the track results with details on the builds already there. . . Nothing wrong with letting it go right here. Relax. You have a great thing going on here with this amazing car you've built! TOP NOTCH results!

 

[LucasEnglish]

No other dynos but Dynojet count since there # can be played with by the operator. Every Dynojet reads the same so you can compere #.

126mph is not bad and means alot more to me then log #.

You are one of the only few I have seen make the Holset stuff work well I guess.

 

[dsm-onster]

Those arn't my results. Those have been published for quite a while now. I will be posting the cumulation of my past years results by the end of this season.


I agree with forcefed86, this is a beautiful setup as is. . . But, it would be a gift to the rest of us to see what more you can extract from a system that as now seams so perfectly built right now! WELL DONE!

 

[jrohner]

I would ditech the H1C I think they are a little worse then a 14b in total hp out put with about 3000rpm less spool. (I am a Holset hater)

3000rpm less spool, are you saying they spool at -500 or 5500 because neither makes sense. Full boost is within a few hundred RPMs or less of a 16G. As for power, my 2G 16G powered car is getting quite boring to me. My Holset really starts to open up at 27-30 psi; no it doesn't feel ANYTHING like a 14B. I like the Holset so much, I have one to put on my 2G (but use the stock housing), and my cousin just bought one too.

No other dynos but Dynojet count since there # can be played with by the operator. Every Dynojet reads the same so you can compere #.

ALL dynos can be adjusted to show whatever you want.

I'm thinking there just needs to be more fuel dumped as the turbine wheel size goes up, right? Retard timing to have the "fire" still there at blow-down and add more an more fuel as you need more and more energy to spin a larger and larger turbine wheel.

It takes torque to get up on the converter, retarding timing takes away torque. I did give it a try anyways before and it seemed much worse. I think more timing may help with an auto.

One other thing Jrohner, have you actually been fooling with the fuel while building boost on the line? That info might help him answer your question more thoroughly.

No I haven't yet; I think it's around 12.5:1 gas equiv AFR. Yeah, MORE thoroughly

 

[LucasEnglish]

Well I was joking a bit on the H1C and 14b. I still feel they are only marginally better or same hp as a 16g with much less spool. (More like 500-1000rpm) Most of the time the install on them is sloppy and way more headache over a EVOIII.

Well Dynojets can't they are just weight spun from A-B. You can do stupid stuff like put a heat lamp on the stack but if you see the correction you will know something is going on.

Yes like Jrohner said adding timing will help get up on the converter. You need all the real hp you can get.

3000rpm less spool, are you saying they spool at -500 or 5500 because neither makes sense. Full boost is within a few hundred RPMs or less of a 16G. As for power, my 2G 16G powered car is getting quite boring to me. My Holset really starts to open up at 27-30 psi; no it doesn't feel ANYTHING like a 14B. I like the Holset so much, I have one to put on my 2G (but use the stock housing), and my cousin just bought one too.



ALL dynos can be adjusted to show whatever you want.



It takes torque to get up on the converter, retarding timing takes away torque. I did give it a try anyways before and it seemed much worse. I think more timing may help with an auto.


No I haven't yet; I think it's around 12.5:1 gas equiv AFR. Yeah, MORE thoroughly

 

[GDNF2ET]

She ran a new best of 132mph on the snow tires this weekend and still runs 10.3 on the snow tires

Why did you go back to the snow tires ?

 

[LucasEnglish]

I was running in Drag Radial class and they only allow AWD to run true street tires. No DR or Slicks allwoed.

Here is some in car on how easy this thing is to drive.



YouTube - Going for a ride in the little auto 10.3@132mph on Snow tires ECMLink V3

 

[forcefed86]

Pretty cool stuff!


Are you shifting it with the econo button? What kind of main/rod bearings do you like to use? Ever have any problems pushing bearings spiking that high? Do you run a factory oil pump w/ factory pressure?

Love the duct tape gauge mount too!

 

[Nate Crisman]

i'm going to guess that's an autometer vac to 30psi boost gauge. Notice it's pegged from line to trap

 

[LucasEnglish]

Just leave her in drive and let the ECU shift. Shifts about 5800-6000k and I hit the OD button at about 6500rpm in drive.

Never have had bearing problems. Boost spikes are not hard on bearings. Knock from bad tunes and pure hp is what kills bearings. I find once over 600whp alum rods are not a bad idea.

Yes its a Autometer 30-30 gauge.

 

[rrussell]

... That is cooler then Sh*t!!!

One hand on the wheel as if you just picked up a coffee at Starbucks.

Gota Love that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AL92]

Not sure if should post here or pm you. Not sure how many secrets you want to share .Since I am way up in
Canada maybe you can take pity on me and pm me direct if you dont' want to disclose everything on here

Anyway doing an auto 91 . Posted my build in another current thread. Obviously yours runs great.
So questions..

What exact snow tires are you running size and make.. I was planning on 16 by 7 konig wheels. So guess run 225/50R/16 for size.
What is the rest of your suspension... I have kyb agx trying to get eibach pros but they are discontinued.
What exactly has been done to lighten your car. I need to trailer mine to scale to see what it weighs since it isn't streetable and havent gone to track yet. Going hopefully in a month or so.
So far on mine have taken out back bumper support, front bumper support is jm fab. Have removed air, abs,cruise ,wipers,sway bars,going to lightweight wheels. Have 8 point mild steel rollbar. Corbea forza seat,
So far have console,front door panels stock dash. Hood ,fenders and hatch all steel right now.Looking at manual steering or mod to power steering. What are you doing for steering?
I have dsmlink and was going to go to dsmlink v3 and run SD open loop. I run SD on my 99 twin turbo trans am works fine even on street car.I run closed loop Sd on that one.
I am torn on turbo choice but you have me thinking smaller maybe. But I have no e85 here and likely never get it. So how much less does turbo you have or evo big 16 do on just race gas versus e85? I don't think will be runing meth likely just race and big intercooler.
I can possilby borrow my FP3065 from 97 talon for my 91 race project. My goals are 10.x not 9s ever. Too much hassle for 9s at main track I go to being NHRA track. I was also thinking maybe FPRED or FP3575...? not sure they even make that one anymore.
But again you have me interested to maybe try smaller for awhile. I have fp exhaust manifold ,could run jm fab race intake off my 97 talon and have crower 280s that could run.I also can run my 2.4 from my 97 talon and go with different engine in that one.

Anyway sorry to bring in all this detail. Also what other mods in your 2.3 build..what cams..any special headwork..
So you just let the computer shift..you don't have your tcu reprogrammed?
So shift kit wasn't worth it? Have to read about blue wire linked in other thread . Was thinking shoudl get endclutch kit and maybe welded center diff. So you don't run endclutch kit ? And your center diff is stock?

I think you could pull off a 9 with your current setup with a few mods. Be interesting to see what you pick up with FP exhaust manifold or mabye a street or race smim. or some cams if you dont have any now.
Heck a few hundred pounds and you could be there too. But maybe not much left to lighten and we know doing 9s is big headache at NHRA tracks, medicals ,full cage, etc.etc. all big hassle.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Will have to look again on the snow tires, but they are no better then a good all season tire. We just had them around the shop.

It still runs a tenth faster on it M&H DOT tire.

Ctr diff is welded

Car is very light for a Auto 2650lbs with out me.

Stock springs cut with stock KYB GR2 shocks

Blue wire mod is all this car really needs

Stock trans other then Shift kit and blue wire mod.

Stock PS rack with the PS pump and lines removed.

VPQ16 will make more hp then E85 so you will be fine with that kinda of fuel.

Bigger turbos will requite a restall on the converter which will also suck power. On a built 2.0 you will need a N20 to get up on a converter. A 10:1 2.4 with good tuning may be enough to get up on the converter with out N20.

My stroker is nothing special. Eagle crank, rods, Wiseco 9:1 pistons. Stock Vales with our head work. Nothing to crazy in porting.

 

[AL92]

Will have to look again on the snow tires, but they are no better then a good all season tire. We just had them around the shop.

It still runs a tenth faster on it M&H DOT tire.

Sorry not clear it runs tenth faster on the m and h tires?
What are good all season tires? I don't want to go to drag tires right off the bat.

Ctr diff is welded
Ok

Car is very light for a Auto 2650lbs with out me.

Hoping to get mine down pretty low. Will see how am doing at track hopefully if the scale is working.

Stock springs cut with stock KYB GR2 shocks

Ok using kyb agx with ground control or eibach pro.

Blue wire mod is all this car really needs

Stock trans other then Shift kit and blue wire mod.

Car is track only so would think blue wire is fine then.

Stock PS rack with the PS pump and lines removed.

Did you take out seal or something ? So is it not to bad to drive around pits and staging lanes? I hate the power steering pump,res and lines. want them gone. So manual rack no real point? thought mod was take out seal in the power rack?

VPQ16 will make more hp then E85 so you will be fine with that kinda of fuel.
Ok no e85 options likely ever up here.

Bigger turbos will requite a restall on the converter which will also suck power. On a built 2.0 you will need a N20 to get up on a converter. A 10:1 2.4 with good tuning may be enough to get up on the converter with out N20.

The 2.4 going into my race car is like 8.8. I have my jm fab setup for direct port so can go that route or use simple single nozzle since only going to be running lowest shot and easier to get a lower shot on single nozzle versus direct. Direct nozzle holes get very small at small shots.

My stroker is nothing special. Eagle crank, rods, Wiseco 9:1 pistons. Stock Vales with our head work. Nothing to crazy in porting.

Ok nothing exotic nice to know that too.

Great info thanks.Still not sure if want to mess with small turbo or go big right off but you are getting some great results with that current small turbo. And you can't argue with success!

 

[habitatguy187]

VPQ16 will make more hp then E85 so you will be fine with that kinda of fuel.

I've been led to believe otherwise, can you go into more detail?

 

[LucasEnglish]

Well I have seen 2 cars that have gone from E to q16 and made the same or just a little more hp. On a 500hp car just putting Q in the tank can pick up almost 10hp with no other change over any other gas.

Also true e85 is 110oct at best so the tune cant be pushed as hard as you could on q16 or C16. We run E98 which is 120oct which can be pushed just as hard or harder then c16 or q16. $3 a gal VS $15 a gal is our main reason for the Ethanol.

 

[forcefed86]

Whats exactly is "ER head port work"? Only reason I ask is I have mine all apart at the moment. I was just thinking of doing some light clean up and gasket matching work. Any suggestions on areas you think need work? (91 1g head)

 

[dsm-onster]

Well I have seen 2 cars that have gone from E to q16 and made the same or just a little more hp. On a 500hp car just putting Q in the tank can pick up almost 10hp with no other change over any other gas.

Also true e85 is 110oct at best so the tune cant be pushed as hard as you could on q16 or C16. We run E98 which is 120oct which can be pushed just as hard or harder then c16 or q16. $3 a gal VS $15 a gal is our main reason for the Ethanol.

You have another 10-20whp with a few gallons of Q then . Take the record farther if you ask me.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Doubt I would see to much of a gain to Q VS my e98. I am going to try a FP race manafold and get about 100lbs more out of the car. I think she has a 9.9 in her by the end of the year.

Our port work is mainly claing up the bowls. Gasket matching on the head is a good way to lose alot of power. More is not better when it comes to head porting.

 

[dsm-onster]

Reversion on the exhaust side has been reduced by the head port mouth being smaller than the inlet of the manifold port, correct? That's my speculation.

"my e98" . . . do you mean e98 releases more energy than e85, or do you have a special e98 ? . . .

 

[forcefed86]

Doubt I would see to much of a gain to Q VS my e98. I am going to try a FP race manafold and get about 100lbs more out of the car. I think she has a 9.9 in her by the end of the year.

Our port work is mainly claing up the bowls. Gasket matching on the head is a good way to lose alot of power. More is not better when it comes to head porting.

Thanks for the tip I'll leave it alone. Hope thats not true for the intake manifold as well. It's a little late for me to undo the gasket matching on that one.