Those who think holsets aren't proven please read!

[talon_swift7834]

Ok guys I'm pretty sure we all drive a 4g powered car for the most part. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't run a holset and you sure as heck don't see me bashing them. After reading many "Holset threads/HX40" discussions it has come to my attention that in many of them I see no member who runs one trying to "hype" them up. Those that run them have stated factual evidence at what they are capable of. Mostly I just see those that say they are not against them in reality just bad mouthing them. This site was primarily designed as an information center. SO.....lets try to fill it with useful information and not clutter it with a ton of garbage like most other forums. Ok....let the hater's come out of the wood work to attack me now! Sorry Mods. Pretty sure the usefulness of this thread has hit a wall.

 

[kp116]

We are seeing similar performance from used 20g cars as we are from used HX40 cars. So why not all the hype for the 20g as a budget turbo setup? Low 11's high 10's for both seems the norm in maxed out applications. The 20g however is one of the easiest and most reliable turbos you can bolt to a DSM.

EDIT:
Also where are these 600-700 hp claims coming from? The best running HX40 car has ran 10.9, that is mid 400 wheel horsepower. I don't care if it is making 800whp on a single dyno pull, it is turning mid 400whp ET's. Due to whatever issues that is the cold hard truth, high 10's is what 1 car has ran, the rest are solidly in the 11's and 12's.

YouTube - dsm2gnick 603 AWHP Mitsu Eclipse spyder AWD swapped dyno run2
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/334299-holset-hx40-makes-685hp-584tq.html
YouTube - Dyno run 2g Eclipse 2.4 stroker HX-40 575 AWHP 521 AWTQ
YouTube - 1995 Eclipse GSX 11.0 at 139 HX-40 on e-85

Clearly I am not the quickest or the fastest..... You can't base horsepower numbers with E.T. numbers there are too many variables that go along with your E.T. Weight and trap speed is a much better forumla for trying to figure out what someone power levels are.

 

[pneumo]

hey kp116, the second vid you posted might have been mistitled. The title says '685HP', but clearly in the vid they shout '574!' Is there something else we should know about? It would be nice to limit the overhype, expecially in this thread.

I also think that trap speeds and dyno numbers should be meaningful enough by themselves. Dyno runs won't give you a timeslip, and a drag strip timeslip won't give you a dyno number. I don't think anyone has a timeslip that reads '600whp mph' Let the results speak for themselves and avoid benchracing.

This thread has definately tested my BS meter. It's been tough sorting through every post to find meaningful info and trying not to get caught up in the emotional flamefest. The title of this thread doesn't help, it's almost asking for trouble.

There's some risk involved when buying a used turbo. Not every Holset came off a well maintained, unabused truck. Most oil feed ports are left open during disassembly, handling and shipping when dirt can easily get in. Buyer beware. If anyone (especially a knowledgeable authority) feels strongly enough to recomend a used Holset over a new turbo, perhaps they'd be willing to back up their recomendation when a Holset buyer has trouble?

 

[Morphius]

hey kp116, the second vid you posted might have been mistitled. The title says '685HP', but clearly in the vid they shout '574!' Is there something else we should know about? It would be nice to limit the overhype, expecially in this thread.

It's not mislabled. He provided a link to a discussion in the dyno talk section. It's just posted in the middle of the other links.

There's some risk involved when buying a used turbo. Not every Holset came off a well maintained, unabused truck. Most oil feed ports are left open during disassembly, handling and shipping when dirt can easily get in. Buyer beware.

I would think everyone would realize that. That would even apply to the vehicle itself. There are very few people that bought their DSM new. 99% of us, picked them up used and sometimes abused.

If anyone (especially a knowledgeable authority) feels strongly enough to recomend a used Holset over a new turbo, perhaps they'd be willing to back up their recomendation when a Holset buyer has trouble?

For wanting to stay out of the flamefest, you sure do a good job of sticking yourself in headfirst. Nice call out. If you're going to go that far, why not just put a name(s) in there?

 

[dsm-onster]

I've always recommended rebuilding. Hx40s rebuilt with the bolton housing cost less installed than turbos like the $900 6262 since you pay more for the piece new. The hx40 rebuilt. And you have to pay for the hard parts to have it hang off the head. Holsets have had a better track record than PTE by far. FP is VERY reliable. And their turbos cost twice as much as PTE turbos.

Sure a 6262 makes 700-800whp. So when time comes for such a goal. That turbo should certainly be looked at. But considering my personal recommendations I've made. When a poster is looking for up to 700whp, I recommend the hx40 for cost vs. results as proven.

So I'm not sure eactly to whom he's refering either.

It's not mislabled. He provided a link to a discussion in the dyno talk section. It's just posted in the middle of the other links.

This is an irritating trend that's in all the hx x. X turbo discussions or holset discussions that arn't in the main threads. These very results are in the Holset resolts thread. Hell all you have to do is type in hx40 and 685 in the site search and you get the dyno discusion thread with the yno sheets and all. After all I already posted a link tot he actual graph and dyno discusion in this very thread here, too. Morphius took the time and energy to set up a whole system for understanding, researching results, issues and install criteria/options. The dyno results for that car are right in the results thread with links to the dyno discussion and track results. Why do some take the effort to look through a video and key in on something to promote their belief? Yet fail to see a link right in their face. They're sabotaging their own concentration for a very apparent reason. Certain people see what they want to see.

 

[untouchablecc]

You guys want a more accurate accord of what a hx40 does? Message dacowgod on here. His name is ricky and he will be more then happy to tell you his experience. He has an hx40 2.4 setup. He went 11.0 this past summer and is not making 700 hp. He is in the 500 range in a full weight 2g with two twelve inch subs in the back. He ran stock wheels off a 1995 gsx and spun half track. I dont have the exact result or a dyno sheet because its not mine but like i said he will tell you exactly what he has done.

An by the way your telling me that i should not upgrade turbos. I should go back to a 14b because ill run tens on it? Get the f outta here. The guys that are running these 14s have higher compression and fully built engines. With a power band to abour 6500 if there lucky. They are running this turbo to the ragged edge an making out its psi. Its great for setting records but look at the daily driver. I daily mine, there is no way in hell im going to be able to go 10s on a 14 at 7.8.1 compression. That is why people like myself on stock engines upgrade turbos because it is an easier alternative to making more air flow then tearing apart my engine and putting in higher compression and forged internals. Im poor man i cant afford it so i slap a bigger turbo on flow more air an keep up with the big boys. You tell me how to run 10s on a stock engine with maybe a cam upgrade and ill get rid of my 16g and my h1c. Im waiting.

 

[Morphius]

An by the way your telling me that i should not upgrade turbos. I should go back to a 14b because ill run tens on it? Get the f outta here. The guys that are running these 14s have higher compression and fully built engines. With a power band to abour 6500 if there lucky. They are running this turbo to the ragged edge an making out its psi. Its great for setting records but look at the daily driver. I daily mine, there is no way in hell im going to be able to go 10s on a 14 at 7.8.1 compression. That is why people like myself on stock engines upgrade turbos because it is an easier alternative to making more air flow then tearing apart my engine and putting in higher compression and forged internals. Im poor man i cant afford it so i slap a bigger turbo on flow more air an keep up with the big boys. You tell me how to run 10s on a stock engine with maybe a cam upgrade and ill get rid of my 16g and my h1c. Im waiting.

I know this is directed at me. Please go back and read page 3 and 4. If you can't comprehend the logic and sarcasm in the posts, then you shouldn't be posting.

 

[4g64fiero]

Anyone find it funny that the same people that praise a turbo for going 10s on a single shop car that costs 2x times as much are the ones bitching about how 10 examples of holsets on this board going 10s arent enough to prove them?

That, good sirs, is some nutswinging.

There are better turbos out their for kind of comparable. The master power t76 is comparable although it costs around 650 new. It is available in t4 if thats your thing.

There are also turbos available in group buys if you know where to look. Most dsm shops are expensive compared to other shops on the domestic side.

 

[TSimage]

Wow, Pneumo, apparently us wanting legitimate information means we want to be "spoon fed"... No, you just have to work harder proving something to people who have been around the block more times than yourself. When the biggest talkers don't even do anything to help further the community (especially with a turbo you place so very high) it makes us not be able to take you too seriously. Just as your biggest talker before has already jumped ship to the big G, how much longer to more of these guys give up before anything is done. What is that phrase "History repeats itself?" This discussion of Holsets in general have been going around for a long time yet I see more dissatisfied owners than praises. How can you put a turbo so high on a pedestal with out running it yourself, or having one and doing nothing with it? That just urks me... Let the turbo do the talking is all we want.

PTE had its issues in the past but the quality of their newer turbos are quite impressive. I've never believed in spending that kind of cash for a turbo again since my 35r setup from a few years back but when you look at the result, you can't deny it. You talk about length of time out, the Holets have been around forever and still nothing, the 6262 wasn't even available to the public and was running 9s. A friend of mine locally switched from a 35r to a 6262 and on his very next time to the track broke into the 9s which was a hump he was stuck at for a couple years it seemed. Hate it or not, the turbo has proven its worth. Don't you dare say anything about how under appreciated the Holset is if you yourself aren't doing anything to fix it.

And I agree with Dave, the title is asking for it. It got me excited, I thought I'd finally be appeased, but came in to the same videos and excuses littered all over the other threads, I think the "wise" thing to do would be to just close this thread until we get a few more legs under that one legged chair this argument has been resting on.

 

[Morphius]

Wow, Pneumo, apparently us wanting legitimate information means we want to be "spoon fed"...

I've asked before, and I'll ask again. What information are you seeking? It's obvious you are bent over something and are only here to cause trouble because you didn't find the information you wanted. So, here's your time. Ask.

 

[TSimage]

I've asked before, and I'll ask again. What information are you seeking? It's obvious you are bent over something and are only here to cause trouble because you didn't find the information you wanted. So, here's your time. Ask.

It was never directed at you since you decided to jump in and do a full nose dive without know where your ass end was from your front. I was asking questions about the larger HX55 + sized turbos and any info people had on them, most information out was more along the lines of the HX52 which performance seems to pair well with a 4294r. My build was utilizing a S472 and I moved up to a s475 and with another buyer for that turbo I stated I wouldn't mind running a Holset, I see their potential, all though limited by their tiny inlets I believe the turbo can make good power and I'd be damned if it goes 5 more years and no more clear data. The only answer I needed from people was a simple, "We don't know" a phrase a majority of you should be saying when asked these questions, but I got the typical run around, and all of a sudden onster labeled me as attempting to "search the internet on how to build a 1000hp DSM" I found that amusing especially when you compare accolades, title or not, if you diss me, you're dissing yourself.

So no it wasn't about anything in particular that I am stuck on, they didn't know, thats fine. My build utilizes the biggest turbo that has been slapped in a DSM, how many people could I honestly expect to know about a comparable turbo.. I didn't want/need advice, it was a simple question as to which turbo better compares with the turbo (that I gave specific specs of) I am currently running and a Holset counter part. Possible a HX55, maybe even an HX60, hell maybe there isn't one.

But that was water under the bridge. My comments don't stem from that, they stem from a curiosity that for years hasn't been fulfilled. The unfortunate thing is the Holset threads contain few QBs but has many cheerleaders.

Don't single me out, I'm not the only who see this, its pretty much known.

 

[dsm-onster]

Then start your own thread asking that. You're whimpering now in a SECOND thread you didn't start about an off topic subject.

Pneumo didn't read. I for one won't post any more information in this thread than I already did. It was in plain sight twice before and he didn't see.

And, you got the information you were looking for WRT an hx comparable to your turbo in the other thread you trashed up with your off topic banter. No one has run one on a DSM. You're after what other information now? Why did you bring another discussion you started and got answered from another thread in here? It's not as if you weren't given a name of a turbo with similar mechanical and compressor map specifications. You've already been flat out told there's no one running a holset in the flow range of your turbo. . . And yes you are silly to wonder and question on the entarweb after you've already plummeted into your 800-1000whp build so deeply as to hae already made your turbo purchase. You finish your 1000whp build and you can swap one on for yourself.

This discussion of Holsets in general have been going around for a long time yet I see more dissatisfied owners than praises.

You may see that. But I don't nor do anyone I know. In fact noone here has mentioned this but you.

Just as your biggest talker before has already jumped ship to the big G, how much longer to more of these guys give up before anything is done.

Before anything is done? The hx40 nets 10s and 130-140 trap speeds and 600-700whp. Looks like you didn't read either. OP is going BACK to an hx40 to get even more numbers, after already contributing to the proof than an hx40 does flow enough for 10second passes and 600-700whp results. Several stayed with, or actually just purchased, and have ran a 10second slip. 6-7 have output 600whp MPH speeds. They didn't "jump ship". They realized the results of what a 600-700whp turbo does. The hx40 after all flows enough air for 600-700whp.

What really is 'pretty much known' is that you're emotional while waiting for results for a frame size no one is using.Meanwhile you fabricate that so many are "jumping ship" from using ANOTHER frame size of which you're not even interested. Talk about being taken serious. What a joke!

It's funny you keep going back to Sean. Again, you're turning a turbo purchase into a personality test. Crying about no one running a turbo of a frame size you've bought is absolutely childish! Obviously no one cares because no one has run an hx60. You're free to exit this thread and not read another one. Or if you're really that curious you could try an hx60 for yourself. . . At the end of all things, you got your answer. And you're moaning and bickering that no one has any results with an 800whp hx turbo on a dsm. Thread update: OP isn't running an hx60. Wipe your cheek and finish your build, or start a new thread about an hx60 and beg for someone else to run one there.

I'm sure the blurr of your tear drops will cause you to miss most of the points in this post like all the others though.

AMEN 4g64fiero!



. . .In the meantime, lets all cheer: Bravo! The hx40 has MUCH proof that it's a 600-700whp turbo even in bolton form and certainly has spool characteristics that are favorable over other 600-700whp turbos. Bravo! the dsm community has ANOTHER option that is abundant and by far the most affordable for the goal. If you want a 700-800whp turbo get the 6262. Different level of performance thus far has been output. And considering it can't be bolton, incurring even more cost over it's already higher price, and considering how much later it spools; it sure better make more peak power output with a non-bolton housing than a bolton hx40.

History DOES repeat itself. Arthur Schopenhauer's description of the journey of truth is true itself because history repeats itself. The crying and emotional outbursts place this in a certain stage, for sure.

I know this is directed at me. Please go back and read page 3 and 4. If you can't comprehend the logic and sarcasm in the posts, then you shouldn't be posting.

I think he was being sarcastic as well

 

[untouchablecc]

Morphius it was not directed to you. TSI image brought up the 14b being a far superior turbo ect ect. An i just was not seeing it. Sure if you build the hell out of your engine have about 5 to 10 thousand pesos laying around to see how far you can make a 14b scream then sure why the hell not. For the rest of us to make that kinda power on a stock 1g bottom end. Im sorry its not happening thats why a bigger turbo makes more airflow to make up for the lack of engine internals.

 

[Morphius]

Morphius it was not directed to you.

Ah... my apologies for that. I figured it was given I had discussed it more than he did.

 

[pneumo]

Morphius it was not directed to you. TSI image brought up the 14b being a far superior turbo ect ect. An i just was not seeing it. Sure if you build the hell out of your engine have about 5 to 10 thousand pesos laying around to see how far you can make a 14b scream then sure why the hell not. For the rest of us to make that kinda power on a stock 1g bottom end. Im sorry its not happening thats why a bigger turbo makes more airflow to make up for the lack of engine internals.

Don't look now, but the current 14b record holder is on the stock untouched block. Instead of saying 'a bigger turbo makes more airflow to make up for the lack of engine internals' it might be more accurate to say 'a bigger turbo makes up for the boost leaks, faulty plugs, poorly shifting trans, dragging brakes, etc' or whatever issues the car might have. It's much more exciting to purchase a bigger turbo with hard earned money than it is to gap a fresh set of $10 plugs, shoot the timing for free, do a pressurized boost leak test correctly instead of just tightening the hose clamps and calling it good. That was one of the major ideals I tackled when I went for the 14b record, I had to set everything as perfectly as possible. I couldn't leave anything up to chance or else the car would not perform, and the same is true with any turbo. It's a rookie mistake to expect a bigger turbo to make the car perfect again. It's been said since day #1 - take care of basic maintenance first and make sure the car is running right before upgrading.

Morphius, thanks for pointing out the thread link. Yes I thought it was the title of the vid since 3 vids were posted in a row. Nice catch on the flamebait too.

 

[frankenstein406]

Some posts in here are just stupid, people will buy what they want. They go buy chinabay turbos and boost away with them and brag about how long its lasting, but in the end should have gone with a better turbo in the first place. Most people don't do the supporting mods, they just slap it on and get mad when it breaks or doesn't give them the power. Learn your lessons and keep this thread clean.

Op you ever head up north?

 

[dsm-onster]

Meh. . . the 14b record is held by a car using nitrous that weighs 1000+lbs less than other cars with much larger turbos that have the same times. The quickest withOUT nitrous (you?) trapped only 118mph with a light 2800lb raceweight. but net an 11.5. . . That's just damn good driving and yes, with a properly prepped car. But most want to have more hp than what a 118 with 2800lbs race weight is. . . . They want a bigger turbo and run those times with full weight. I don't think anyone here is talking about not having to properly maintain their DSM.

 

[kp116]

Some posts in here are just stupid, people will buy what they want. They go buy chinabay turbos and boost away with them and brag about how long its lasting, but in the end should have gone with a better turbo in the first place. Most people don't do the supporting mods, they just slap it on and get mad when it breaks or doesn't give them the power. Learn your lessons and keep this thread clean.

Op you ever head up north?

Not really. Where up north are you talking about?

Meh. . . the 14b record is held by a car using nitrous that weighs 1000+lbs less than other cars with much larger turbos that have the same times. The quickest withOUT nitrous (you?) trapped only 118mph with a light 2800lb raceweight. but net an 11.5. . . That's just damn good driving and yes, with a properly prepped car. But most want to have more hp than what a 118 with 2800lbs race weight is. . . . They want a bigger turbo and run those times with full weight. I don't think anyone here is talking about not having to properly maintain their DSM.

Mr. Peepers car trapped 115mph with his 14b on a afc and a sidemount. Race weight of about 3100lbs if I remember correctly.

 

[dsm-onster]

Matt's running e85 too. But yep that's some great results. Danl has a 122mph trap speed with a 2800lb 14b car too . That's quite impressive!

 

[Ludachris]

I really don't understand all of the fuss here. Why is it that the DSM community has to fight over crap like this ALL THE TIME? Every time a turbo option becomes available that is cheaper than all the big players on the market a war starts.

On one side, you have those who want to see it succeed because they want to see a cheaper alternative to the high priced options (David vs. Goliath). On the other side you have the people who feel they have to tear it down and call it crap until it is "proven"... and the term "proven" can be pretty elusive and relative. It becomes a war of words and personal attacks - with people challenging each others' knowledge and trying to discredit anything and anyone who disagrees with them. Arrogance and insults take center stage and nothing positive ever comes out of it. A lot of you guys sound like a bunch of trial lawyers who lost sight of the topic because you've been focused on "winning" the debate for too long. You see hearsay being tossed around on both sides more than anything. Everyone knows someone that had a turbo that crapped out or ran a good time.

I read threads like this and just shake my head. When will the DSM community get past this BS and focus on how to have a constructive discussion? Are these turbos crap? Probably not. Is there a reliability issue? It's tough to read through all the crap to find that out. Are they the best option for everyone? Probably not. But how many in the DSM community can actually afford to run 9's and put down 600whp? Let's be realistic for a minute guys. Seriously.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no need for so many Holset threads. If some people feel they need to be the ones to help "prove" this turbo is a good option for many others, use the 1/4 Mile list here on the site to share your results, like the 16g guys have done over the years. And don't worry so much about the detractors. They'll come around when more numbers are posted. But the more people try and argue without results, the more detractors we'll end up seeing, and the worse this whole damned discussion will get, not that it can get any worse really. The fact that this thread was posted just goes to show you that this whole controversy has gotten way out of control.

Sheesh!

Let's try and act like adults here guys, and have a little less attitude. There are other sites out there where attitudes are welcomed. Not here.

 

[dsm-onster]

A lot of you guys sound like a bunch of trial lawyers who lost sight of the topic because you've been focused on "winning" the debate for too long.

I'll go ahead and admit that I feel guilty of that. And apologize.

Yes. This would have been better to ADD to his thread already in the 1/4 results thread he has.

. . .Again I just want to state that I do not recommend the hx40 turbo for any more than what it has done. Please, actually read through the holset results thread before recommending for or against the hx35, h1c, wh1c, hx40, wh1e. There's no other results in that thread with any other holset turbo so far that we here know about.

 

[frankenstein406]

Not really. Where up north are you talking about?

Stevens point wausau area, come help with my ev03 16g build haha.

 

[kp116]

Not really. Where up north are you talking about?

Stevens point wausau area, come help with my ev03 16g build haha.

Thats quite a drive from here.

 

[untouchablecc]

MY bad. I should not get so fired up over nothing. I just get frustrated when people do not like someone elses way of doing things. If it works who cares. A 14b might work for the record holder because his car is lightweight or uses N2o but that doesn't mean that it works for everyone else. I think people forget that a lot on this site. There is a combination of dsm owners. You have daily drivers(myself), weekend warriors, autox, drag racing, salt flat top end runs, rally, ect. The same things do not work for all of us but thats what makes this site great because a Dsm can do really anything in the car world depending on how you build one an they were never ment to be more then a 190 or 210 hp car that was cute an handled good.

 

[Ludachris]

... I think people forget that a lot on this site...

I think it's more of a DSM thing - it's not just limited to this site.