Those who think holsets aren't proven please read!

[dsm-onster]

From what you are saying the intercooler was constant and the major variable were the turbo selections. The fact that one turbo has a significantly higher IAT at the same boost levels over a single gear pull is alarming.

Considering that both the t67 and the s366 are much higher flowing turbos than the hx40 compressor (10+ lb/min more), then I'm not sure if the comparison is a proper offering. What will turbos of the same basic total flow potential net in the same range of performance he's asking for. IOW where does his flow reside on each map. Afterall efficiency alone alters the temp of the aircharge if the flow and boost are the same. Was more flow being seen by one turbo (an intercooler cools a certain lb/min to a certain temp)? I doubt either turbo was being really pushed or we would see the results here or elsewhere

After all, was he using a bolton housing or not? Higher back pressure will increase the intake temp because more exhaust gases are filtering back into the intake. I don't know too many guys who runs a S366 or a T67 with small clammy bolton housing. Because it is know that intake temps go down by swapping to a better flowing hotside.

 

[pneumo]

wiseman said" Higher back pressure will increase the intake temp because more exhaust gases are filtering back into the intake. "
Could you please clarify that statement?

 

[dsm-onster]

overlap.

See the reason twinscroll is an advantage.

 

[pneumo]

overlap.

See the reason twinscroll is an advantage.

really

The OP knows the intake air temp because he has an intake airtemp sensor. The sensor is not located in the intake valve.
I don't know where the IAT sensor is located in his setup, but I'm willing to bet it's not in the head or the intake manifold runners. How much overlap should cams have in order to see exhaust gasses heating up the UICP?

Who was it that keeps saying "think!" ?

 

[rampridersrider]

This Holset bullshit is making me want to throw my HX35 in the ####ing river and buy a Garrett again. I can't even stand to go into the Turbo Section on this site anymore and see those ####ing million page long threads that keep saying the same things over and over and over again about these turbos. They are good turbos, they aren't some miracle turbo, they don't do any voodoo to your car, blah blah blah. If you like them, you have a wide variety to choose from, and they are relatively easy to get your hands on used, but generally you won't find them in good shape if they are used so you are either forced to buy rebuilt or new. They are a turbo, you bolt it on and turn up the boost. They don't do anything else any other turbo doesn't do. ####.


Boosted98GSX, we get you spend lots of money on your parts. You're intercooler and intake manifold new are worth probably half the amount your car blue books at on KBB. Not everyone shares your bank account. So quit being a ###got to everyone that wants to save a couple bucks on there car that they build as a hobby.


DSM-onster, not gonna lie, I hate reading 99% of your posts. Your broken record posting is annoying.

OH and BTW, to the OP, great times with your car even with your impeding problems. I've followed your car/setup/dynos etc for a while now and I'm impressed.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Why cant we all just be friends.

 

[pneumo]

Why cant we all just be friends.

Because some of use get tired of the nutswingers.

Like rampsridersrider said, the Holsets are good turbos, nothing more. Yet somehow it got blown out of proportion. Maybe it's because the compressor maps are created with a slightly higher inlet pressure than Garrett and Mitsubishi use to rate their turbos, which makes the holset map look slightly better. Maybe it's the lure of the cheap price when bought used. I dunno. Whatever the reason, you know it ellicits some strong emotions when a wiseman parrots "600WHP +" just a few posts after the OP stated he made 470WHP.

The main message I want to get across is that the Holset is not a magic turbo at a cheap price. It's simply another choice among many. Let's keep it real, OK?

 

[dsm-onster]

OP altered some things and went to the track after upping the boost and net the 600hp MPH. Some gripe that dynos are no basis by which to determine accurate hp, that only track mph can. So I refer to his track results. Yet another comes on here saying that his only proof of whp is the dyno results Get emotional when a wiseman states something? You could have given me, as a person not a "wiseman", the benefit of the doubt and looked back to see if there is a basis for my statemement.

Larger exhaust housings DO lower upper intercooler piping temps. I've swapped to larger turbine housings and see less knock and lower charge temps. But I think the real reason that higher temps were see (this isn't the OP by the way) was because where he was on the map considering the different compressor sizes he used. I was inserting some clear and frequently occuring possiblities. Since higher temps are a concern; and rightfully so.

Rampridersrider. . . If it irritates, you can look away. Hey, yea, I keep saying the same thing but to different people. But, just because someone else is in the conversation doesn't mean the facts somehow are different. As pneumo so aptly put, "some of us get tired of the nutswingers" who whine Q brand is better; B brand isn't proven to run 11s, isn't proven to output Xwhp, isn't proven to run over 130mph, isn't proven to run 10s. When B brand in several setups have done exactly that. Now why would one say exactly that AFTER they have already been shown the proof? This is not limited to turbochargers. Please point to where any one has said that B brand is voodoo under your hood. Nothing I personally have stated isn't backed by cold hard facts proven by logged results or dyno sheets with MPH/weight backing.

It's terrible to see someone say, "Get an hx40 it spools like a 16g"

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I correct it EVERY time I see it. It sure does spool faster than other turbos of similar frame, but also posses some drawbacks, that you have to work with just like other turbos of similar frame.

To you both, you're damn right it's not a magic turbo. No turbo is magic. Each have more agreeable traits at the expense of others which one person's build may merrit over another. Garrett's maps being based on lower ambient pressure isn't enough to make up the difference in the flow amounts, as seen on the map. But who cares? No one in here is talking maps anyway. Chuck Norris has pushed any particular garrett to umpteen whp varified by excellent driving in the quarter mile. They are great turbos. So is BW, so is Holset, so is MHI. That's the problem and why Kenny posted this. Based on his results and the results of others, no one can say that a bolton hx40 isn't a 10 second turbo, isn't a turbo that can net 135mph with a 3300lb car. SO many don't accept it, which is fine; but then push it further and attack, bicker, rant, intentionally lie in wait to degrade, etc. any particular item/brand/path that's either not to their liking or not on their personal list of modifications.

BTW, I can be your friend, if you are reasonable

 

[hereitcomes]

I think these threads are good for deciding turbos for any given application. Obviously everything can be up for debate, but it helps to see what people like and dislike. I would like to stray away from my chronic use of a 16g, but I haven't ventured outside of th e 14b variant world. It is threads like these that spark my interest.

 

[danl]

@ this thread...........

 

[kp116]

Because some of use get tired of the nutswingers.

Like rampsridersrider said, the Holsets are good turbos, nothing more. Yet somehow it got blown out of proportion. Maybe it's because the compressor maps are created with a slightly higher inlet pressure than Garrett and Mitsubishi use to rate their turbos, which makes the holset map look slightly better. Maybe it's the lure of the cheap price when bought used. I dunno. Whatever the reason, you know it ellicits some strong emotions when a wiseman parrots "600WHP +" just a few posts after the OP stated he made 470WHP.

The main message I want to get across is that the Holset is not a magic turbo at a cheap price. It's simply another choice among many. Let's keep it real, OK?

470whp yes but that is not where it sat at the end of the year plus that was on a mustang dyno. Also the bolt-on hx40 has proven 600+whp already. I hope to get some good numbers and better times this year with the hx40

 

[pneumo]

kp116, could you tell us your best mph on the holset? I couldn't find it in this thread.

FYI if you need an inexpensive valvespring just grab a set of OEM evo beehive springs and retainers. I'm sure you could pick them up for around $100- $150. Several locals have run them with mild cams up to 8k rpm with no problem.

 

[rampridersrider]

kp116, could you tell us your best mph on the holset? I couldn't find it in this thread.

FYI if you need an inexpensive valvespring just grab a set of OEM evo beehive springs and retainers. I'm sure you could pick them up for around $100- $150. Several locals have run them with mild cams up to 8k rpm with no problem.

I sing my motor up to 8k rpm with FP2's and stock valvetrain all day long. Zero issues

 

[nanokpsi]

PS: Some of us are not saying the turbo is crap. We are stating that it's being over-hyped.

Well put. I think much of the hype stems form a large contingency of the DSM fan base being uber cheap. Many feel that turbos from large/popular companies only sell because of marketing/advertising. I don't know about you, but I didn't select my turbo(s) for either of those things. I chose based upon results that other end users had.

I also get a huge kick out of threads like this one. What exactly is the OP's objective here? To convince the Holet haters that they are not pieces of crap? Who gives a shiz what other people think. You like your turbo, the car is fast to you... well done.

We all have this majical thing called "preception". Most of us preceive that cheap things are pieces of junk, and expensive things are very nice. LIke it or not...when we see people rolling in an old kia, we think it is a pice of crap. On the other hand, we see some dude in a Range Rover that he has a nice car. Certianly, the range might have spent more time in the shop that the Kia, but that doesn't change our perceptions

 

[dsm-onster]

Meh. . . title of the thread is 'those that think holset isn't proven' not 'those that have a certain perception'.

There are those that specifically said that the hx40 can't run 10s consistantly, cant trap mid 130s consistantly, make whp in the range of the compressor flow consistantly. Those looking for 10s can see this thread, and can 'choose based upon results that other end users had.'

 

[kp116]

kp116, could you tell us your best mph on the holset? I couldn't find it in this thread.

FYI if you need an inexpensive valvespring just grab a set of OEM evo beehive springs and retainers. I'm sure you could pick them up for around $100- $150. Several locals have run them with mild cams up to 8k rpm with no problem.

Best trap was 134.6mph with 33psi with the GM maf and break up issues in 4th.

I am going with the FP beehive springs and retainers also with kelford 272's. I am hoping that combo will work nice together.

 

[joescool2008]

Kiggly springs or fail!

 

[kp116]

Kiggly springs or fail!

If you want to buy them for me then sure.

 

[1995gsx20g]

On stock valvetrain? Doubtfull..

i did the same thing and didnt do any damage. i mean i tore the head apart on sunday and see some wear with lifters and such but i got 90k on the motor. and 35k mine

 

[pneumo]

Best trap was 134.6mph with 33psi with the GM maf and break up issues in 4th.

I am going with the FP beehive springs and retainers also with kelford 272's. I am hoping that combo will work nice together.

Thanks for the info kp116! That's an excellent result.
I'd also like to thank you for posting unbiased info about your IAT's.

 

[dsm-onster]

Kenny, in which thread did you post your charge temps?

 

[nanokpsi]

Meh. . . title of the thread is 'those that think holset isn't proven' not 'those that have a certain perception'.

There are those that specifically said that the hx40 can't run 10s consistantly, cant trap mid 130s consistantly, make whp in the range of the compressor flow consistantly. Those looking for 10s can see this thread, and can 'choose based upon results that other end users had.'

That makes this thread even more retarded. You can't proive something is consistant with one person's example, especially to Mike's point that the OP hasn't done it anyways due to other "issues". There is already a holset's results thread, where people can certainly look through and reach a conclusion for themselves. Making a separate thread for one person "should be faster" results seems a little superfulous, no?

 

[dsm-onster]

No, this should be thought of with the OTHER results of 130-140trap speeds, dynos backed by MPH, and 10second time slips. Not only did this setup do what other hx40 setups have done, but it did it with these problems of which he chose to discuss. He didn't want to open a discussion in the results thread. He wanted to talk about the problems and remedies, and probably was looking for a nudge to grab another hx40 anyway.

. . . "retarded"? . . . If you already accept the body of results then great! And that is probably why you don't understand the point of this thread. If not, then why not discuss? I just said that there are those that have access to the results thread and still say the hx40 hasn't proven to net the above results to which I was refering. This thread reinforces the magnitude of its ability.

 

[nanokpsi]

To think you can prove or disprove anything with one example is, in fact, retarded. Things just don't work that way. That's the whole point of the results thread, no?

I don't think anyone truthfully disputes the ability of a Holeset to make the amount of power shown here. It's not like it take a super rediculous amount of power to make a 1g trap 130. The people that speak against the Holsets only do it because most people that have one think its the best thing going, and they mainly only run it becuase of the price. While the rest of "us" fell that there are better options out there, especially if there is a sufficient budget.

The very fact that the holset crowd feels the need to start threads "begging" for validation in and of itself has a very strong sense of insecurity. I mean, does every garrett owner need to start a thread saying their turbo is awesome if they make 500whp? Do we feel the need to have a Garrett/ Borg Warner results thread? The Holsett crowd feels it is required though, probably due to everyone's perceptions

Also, claiming that the unit is a 600whp bolt on turbo based on these results isn't very valid, as this does nothing to prove those numbers, and the author of such a remark desrves a "CRAFTSMAN" tattoo

 

[kp116]

Kenny, in which thread did you post your charge temps?

I never did. I didn't even have a IAT sensor on the car the end of last year.

To think you can prove or disprove anything with one example is, in fact, retarded. Things just don't work that way. That's the whole point of the results thread, no?

I don't think anyone truthfully disputes the ability of a Holeset to make the amount of power shown here. It's not like it take a super rediculous amount of power to make a 1g trap 130. The people that speak against the Holsets only do it because most people that have one think its the best thing going, and they mainly only run it becuase of the price. While the rest of "us" fell that there are better options out there, especially if there is a sufficient budget.

The very fact that the holset crowd feels the need to start threads "begging" for validation in and of itself has a very strong sense of insecurity. I mean, does every garrett owner need to start a thread saying their turbo is awesome if they make 500whp? Do we feel the need to have a Garrett/ Borg Warner results thread? The Holsett crowd feels it is required though, probably due to everyone's perceptions

Also, claiming that the unit is a 600whp bolt on turbo based on these results isn't very valid, as this does nothing to prove those numbers, and the author of such a remark desrves a "CRAFTSMAN" tattoo

I made this thread because I was amazed at the fact that the car did what it did on two bent valves. Does it really have anything to do with the holset? To be honest with you no not really. I made the title to simply get peoples attention and it sure seems like I achieved that.

I post my results for other holset users to read and ask any questions they may have. It is not to talk down any other turbo or make holsets seem like they're better than everything else. I always believe that you get what you pay for but for 600 dollar bolt-on turbo that can get you into the 10's and trap speeds of 130+ on a stock intake in a car that weighs 3150lbs is very impressive if you ask me.....

The hx40 has already been proven to make 600+whp. At the end of the season I was flowing 66-67lbs/min at 39psi. The cars best trap was 134.6mph and it weighs 3150lbs. I think that is enough facts to say my car was around the neighborhood of 600whp but it never saw those numbers on a dyno. I care about how it performs down the track not if it can be a dyno queen or not.