Those who think holsets aren't proven please read!

[pneumo]

I never did. I didn't even have a IAT sensor on the car the end of last year.

I was talking about this post.
Originally Posted by need2boostpsi
"I enjoyed my holset time, turbo is definitely something to hype up, my only complaint is my IAT sensor showed my UICP heating up 30* from a single pull, my S366 and T67 both only showed 5-12* temp increasing at the same boost. I do realize my Intercooler is not rated for 700whp."

The hx40 has already been proven to make 600+whp. At the end of the season I was flowing 66-67lbs/min at 39psi. The cars best trap was 134.6mph and it weighs 3150lbs. I think that is enough facts to say my car was around the neighborhood of 600whp but it never saw those numbers on a dyno. I care about how it performs down the track not if it can be a dyno queen or not.

Is there a thread or post showing a dyno of a Holset making over 600 whp? I keep hearing about it and I'd like to see it. Thanks.

 

[camfast]

Kenny...i think that your combo along with diambo4life are one of the best that ive seen. Impressive to say the least for the stock parts youre running, including the stock manifold, TB and head with just cams and springs. The hx-40 has shown what it can do based on your traps of 134.6 mph even with bent valves and really there is nothing else you need to prove!

 

[toofast82]

Is there a thread or post showing a dyno of a Holset making over 600 whp? I keep hearing about it and I'd like to see it. Thanks.

There is, I think the guys un is badman21 or something like that.
Some guys make good power with the holsets, I think the OP in this thread is one of a FEW impressive examples I've seen. Could the OP make more power on a different turbo at 39psi, possibly?
But the holset hype is through the roof and its kind of ridiculous.
I tried out an hx35 7blade about 5years ago,
They are just other options in a field of a million different choices to me.

 

[dsm-onster]

I don't think anyone in here said the hx40 is more than a 10 second turbo or more than a 690whp turbo. So the hype isn't displayed in here.

The hype SHOULD be that no one with the clammy .55 a/r housing has done this: Click. Validated by a 135mph trap speed at 3278lbs race weight with 4 LESS psi boost than the dyno run shown. What other turbo with a bolton volute has done close to 700whp? a bolton turbo saves alot of money.

Here's another in the same results thread with the t3 housing.

Kenny has his results with the bolton housing.

There are 6 or 7 130-140mph traps speed cars. All with weight that puts them at or over 600whp. Most are on the bolton housing. Consider the small volume of users, I'm not sure why one would say that the results are relatively few.

The hype should be how much affordable you can snag one of these up for similar results that a more expensive turbo can yield. It's nothing special vs turbos of the same frame. But you have alot more budget with one. Another real thing to be hyped about is the spool speed. That 690whp dyno linked is a direct comparison of the previously installed fp3052 (look at the curves on the graph). Powerband is pretty much the same, just WAY more under the curve. I've already posted logs of the hx40 spooling through 20psi by 3900rpms on a 2.0L motor in 3rd gear.

I never did. I didn't even have a IAT sensor on the car the end of last year.

That's what I thought .



See what I mean nanokpsi? the above results are IN the holset results thread. Some have a hard time following a thread? Maybe subconsciously sabotaging their concentration in a discussion, just to insert an ill response to a subject with which they are irritated. . . Kp116 got the results he wanted with this thread. Get people talking and asking questions especially for those interested in running a 10second turbo for a full weight car for less money than some others out there (again that should be the only real hype). Not the place for the results thread.

No matter. When one gets on here and says go for the hx40. One or two will always chime in: "they are overhyped" or "they arn't proven". Yet no one said they can make MORE than whatever goal for such a turbo was recommended without proof. The difference is why pay for an exhaust manifold and more money in the turbo, and have a laggier setup in a particular case. This was the big crapfest in the last 'X vs. holset' discussion. Why remark they are overhyped? Who cares? The hx40 is more affordable to bolton and is perfect for a full weight 10 second goal, just like the gt35r. The hx35 is perfect for the full weight 11second goal just like the bolton gt30r, yet costs less bolted on as well. Why mention it's overhyped when many are excited that it's just more affordable and spools faster than turbos typically used in these ranges of goals? I .

One other Holset result I guess is apparent. Alot of people get angry/pissy/frustrated/whiny when a less expensive turbo in a housing they don't like in the first place see success in the flow level in which the turbo was intended. You're landrover/kia analogy does hold true.

 

[nanokpsi]

I think the anolgy is perfect. I am sure the range Rover driver would not like to hear form the Kia owner that their car is never in the shop, while their prized Rover spends more time in the bay than it does in their possesion
I know people have had good results with them. I didn't question that. I knew they were in the results thread, which is why this beloings there as well. Starting an attention whore thread to try to coninvce haters that they shouldn't hate on them is pointless. We all know the guys that hate on them, are going to continue to do so. The Garret/BW guys are not all of a suden going to "see the light".

I can think of a dozen turbos that would fit each category (11 sec or 10 sec) goal fyi, especially if you apply the "this and only this" type of goal. Most of us in the real world know that doesn't work so well in this hobby though We always want to go fatser, and the bolt ons always end up in the classifieds. The fastest guys always end up "on the dark side"

 

[dsm-onster]

You're ultimately correct, IMO. Haters keep hatin

I can think of a dozen turbos that would fit each category (11 sec or 10 sec) goal fyi, especially if you apply the "this and only this" type of goal. Most of us in the real world know that doesn't work so well in this hobby though We always want to go fatser, and the bolt ons always end up in the classifieds. The fastest guys always end up "on the dark side"

Good thing my bolton will sell for exactly what I put into it or even more since I've sourced all the parts myself

 

[Morphius]

I knew they were in the results thread, which is why this beloings there as well. Starting an attention whore thread to try to coninvce haters that they shouldn't hate on them is pointless.

My .02. On some grounds I agree. I would have done the following:

1. Post the results in the Holset Results thread. (Please do if you haven't)

2. Made a post in the Holset discussion thread to inform everyone of some new validated results., which would spur some discussion as usual.

3. Made a thread (if some of you want to call it a "whore thread") in the dyno/track section on the new times.


Some of what was starting before, is creeping around again, with tons of seperate mini discussion threads in this section and the Newb section (ie why I started the newb discussion thread). What makes these Holset threads unique and work, is the concentration of info in very few threads. Sure it's a lot of pages. But what sucks more, searching 1000 threads? or One thread with 1000 posts? Personally, I hate searching hundreds of threads with little snipits of info in each.

 

[dsm-onster]

I agree. I also agree that "attention whore thread" is a bit harsh. There's a whole "attention whore thread" section called the dyno/track results forum . . . Perhaps this thread is just misplaced?

Yea putting the info in the holset threads would dare some to come into the "snake pit" with their personal issues with someone elses choice.

BTW, here's a second congratulations on your results Kenny! The result really does speak for itself.

 

[JusMX141]

But what sucks more, searching 1000 threads? or One thread with 1000 posts? Personally, I hate searching hundreds of threads with little snipits of info in each.

I agree totally.

If you're looking for information on what manifolds work with the Holset turbos, search for "manifold" within the most recent Holset discussion threads and every post that includes the word "manifold" will result.

If you do a standard thread search either looking for titles or content you'll end up looking through threads that were never answered, have vague answers, or don't have to deal with Holset turbo fitment at all.

 

[Morphius]

I agree. I also agree that "attention whore thread" is a bit harsh.

True. I'm not saying I think he is. I'm just trying it enlighten the community again to the underlying reason behind the existing structure.

I'm not saying EVERY discussion has to be in the thread, but given the number of people following them, naturally and most often, questions will get answered quicker when it's in the normal discussion thread.

Again, not hating on the OP. Glad you could share!

 

[kp116]

I totally understand about making another holset thread and I should have posted this somewhere else and I appologize. I was just too excited at the time. If a mod would like to move this thread or close it I would completely understand.

 

[talon_swift7834]

For those that think Dyno numbers are everything...I'm more partial to looking at an actual time-slip and I don't even drag race. Actual numbers have been stated on what times the holset HAS produced so the hateers just need to bite their own tongues. As for what was talked about earlier I could also explain what was talked about in regards to IAT and how intake and exhaust designs greatly affect the overall performance of your vehicle. If intake air temps are as high as some have stated I would recommend a redesign of components.

Stated by Jack Burns of Burns Stainless.
"Not that testing on a regular dyno can always provide the definitive
picture, Burns cautions. “Sometimes you lose horsepower on the dyno
but go faster on the track. This is typically due to engine response
issues that can only be evaluated on a transient dyno."

 

[dsm-onster]

Bud, either they know it and still dote on a brand they chose. . . Or they don't know sh!t and talk up a storm... Or they see the results and are happy to see flow numbers from the factory and other's reulst further validated . . .

That's why the "haters" don't bite their tongue when they see trap results backing the dyno. nearly700whp on a bolton volute is fcking nuts!!! they can't see that. The "what if" chastizing will begin but WHAT IF that housing was something other than the hated bep .55 a/r housing. Same folk who attack the holset seam to have attacked the BEP .55 housing long ago. So either accept one or the other. The bep .55 housing is great to net such a goal. Or the hx40 is great to net such a goal with such a housing.

 

[kp116]

Bud, either they know it and still dote on a brand they chose. . . Or they don't know sh!t and talk up a storm... Or they see the results and are happy to see flow numbers from the factory and other's reulst further validated . . .

That's why the "haters" don't bite their tongue when they see trap results backing the dyno. nearly700whp on a bolton volute is fcking nuts!!! they can't see that. The "what if" chastizing will begin but WHAT IF that housing was something other than the hated bep .55 a/r housing. Same folk who attack the holset seam to have attacked the BEP .55 housing long ago. So either accept one or the other. The bep .55 housing is great to net such a goal. Or the hx40 is great to net such a goal with such a housing.

Very well said. I am going back to the hx40 with the .55 bep housing for the start of the year. I hope I can run some impressive times and maybe get some horsepower numbers on paper!

 

[907dsm]

How much timing and what kind of gas is Kenny using as well? That's going to play a big factor??

 

[kp116]

How much timing and what kind of gas is Kenny using as well? That's going to play a big factor??

E85 for gas and I think timing was at like 17 degrees peak.

 

[GORBS88]

E85 for gas and I think timing was at like 17 degrees peak.

Good job on all the progress you've made. I'm a supporter of holsets myself and have had GREAT luck with them. I trapped 133MPH on a $400 turbo so why not?
I DONT praise them by anymeans BUT being that i am a "budget" based racer the holset fit me just right.

They are a "cheaper" priced turbo for the performance, that's all..

 

[TSimage]

I love it.. When you see the words "Holset" in a thread title you can pretty much recite word for word what the thread will contain once you enter..

I can't knock the OP. He is the ONLY Holset nuttswinger other than biglady that doesn't annoy the piss out of me. Benchracing keyboard warriors unite.. Its awesome you managed such times with a bunk head, but I have bent valves before, only to replace them and see slight gains. And this was on much more aggressive cams with a higher redline. I'm sure it has more, but not enough to put it in capitals and say "A LOT". The only thing that will make that turbo perform "A LOT" better is moving to a less restrictive housing.

This thread never needed to be made. The post about this car can be seen in every single Holset thread. KP's #1 fan DSM-onster makes sure of it at ever moment he has because well, I'll be damned if he ever builds a car and takes it to the track and dyno to put some more weight behind that title that befell upon him.

Fix the car, come back and run it hard. The doubt will remain until a Holset thread changes from 90% talkers to at least 5% doers. There are guys in the 14b thread, one of em being Dave (Pneumo) whom has gone much faster than 95% percent of DSM Holset users. Considering the higher level of automotive prowess in that thread compared to the typical Holset thread as well as nearly quadruple the proof of performance, the HXs don't even hold a candle to the turbo our cars came with stock from the factory if you wanna put the "price" argument into play.

With one of your main cheerleaders, Slippi (and that is not meant in a 'dissing' manner) already jumped ship to a 4294 from a 100% complete JHR/HX52 turbo setup I can only imagine how much longer till we see some consistency with these turbos. Only thing consistent is how often they blow up.

I'd just like to see results like everyone else. Guys like Diambo, Pneumo, myself and others. We have all ran the times you are claiming these turbos are capable of, long ago yet we still see no consistent proof. Thats all we'd like to see.


Here's a question.. With all the time you spend on this board replying to the "nay-sayers" DSM-onster, what is your excuses as to why you haven't followed through. Since you yourself are more convinced than even the guys at Volvo/Cummins that this is a turbo fallen from Gods chariot itself, why have you not done the "wise" thing and put this internet knowledge you self profess to have attained to something more beneficial to the advancement of the community like hmmm, an actual car? I think we'd be able to take you a little more seriously. Its getting kind of ridiculous. its become a pandemic.

 

[dsm-onster]

What I've chosen not to say has no bearing on the subject at hand.

Stop the bellyaching. No one said anything about these turbos more than what they already did. No hype, "nutswinging". They did X with Y several times at a high percentage of users choosing to push. Deal with it. You're trying to sell the act of running these turbos as a personality test. And no one's buying. They work for what was said they work. Deal with it or cry to yourself, instead of vomitting your issues all over this thread.

 

[TSimage]

Keep side stepping, you'll be famous when that dance hits MTV..

I'm not making it into anything. I was or should say, still am a supporter of Holsets, but I'm not a biased yuppie. I have used Holsets and have found better result with other turbos, albeit a while back. I was hoping that the Holset genre would have evolved such as others alas they are still int he same spot they were in 3yrs ago. You'd know because if you search your very own post 2-3 yrs back, you were preaching nearly the exact same jungle music better yet, with even less proof than you have now. With that being noted, we've yet to see from the Holset master himself what these things are capable of...

I was so tempted to see what a damn Holset could do that I was willing to sacrifice my s475, albeit a superior turbo IMO to run a HX, but once again, with all these years of magazine racing and internet fantasies, no one could even give me the slightest bit of info I seeked, definitely defeating the purpose of SEVEN dedicated Holset threads, not to mention numerous off shoots such as these... I found the info I was looking for and decided to stick with my BW, at $400-500 the Holsets price doesn't make up for other lacking areas, again, IMO. How sickening it is for someone to want to search this forum to learn about these turbos only to find threads full of vague information and empty promises dating YEARS back.

That is my qualm, my peeve, the chip on my shoulder if you will. I'm far from a Holset hater, but I just want some flat line information, not from promises, not from track times littered with excuses, just clean hard runs on DSMs or at the very lease a 4G equipped car. (Preferably not an EVO, but at this point, I'd take anything)

Do I believe that that these turbos for the price are one of the better bang for a buck options, hell yes I do, but as EVERYONE from the out side who has posted in these threads have stated, they simply haven't lived up to the hype.

 

[dsm-onster]

Just to say the exact same thing in this very thread. . .

What I've chosen not to say has no bearing on the subject at hand.

Stop the bellyaching. No one said anything about these turbos more than what they already did. No hype, "nutswinging". They did X with Y several times at a high percentage of users choosing to push. Deal with it. You're trying to sell the act of running these turbos as a personality test. And no one's buying. They work for what was said they work. Deal with it or cry to yourself, instead of vomitting your issues all over this thread.

. . .Maybe that will really piss you off.

3 years ago there weren't results like this before you. You're blind. Stop saying "holset" and say the hx40 for once. Quit talking brand and talk about the turbo used here. It works as a 10second turbo. Nothing more has ever been said. Spend your time researching to prove otherwise at least, instead of whining.

You yourself are sitting around waiting for results of a "holset" turbo that's of the same frame size as the s475. Hi, I'm kettle! (in a sense that you believe). Big thing here for you to get: we're not talking about anything but the hx40.

Clean, "flat line information". . . News flash: the .55 a/r BEP housing hx40 is proven to net 10s and 130-140mph trap speeds with 2700-3500lb awd DSMs; 600-700whp dyno results backing trap speeds and trap speeds backing dynos; spool speed varified by log after log after log and even dyno comparison with other turbos of smaller frame. No one's talking about brand. No ones talking about other frames. Deal with the 'flatline information' provided or post another emotional uproar. . .

 

[danl]

Clean, "flat line information". . . News flash: the .55 a/r BEP housing hx40 is proven to net 10s and 130-140mph trap speeds with 2700-3500lb awd DSMs; 600-700whp dyno results backing trap speeds and trap speeds backing dynos; spool speed varified by log after log after log and even dyno comparison with other turbos of smaller frame. No one's talking about brand. No ones talking about other frames. Deal with the 'flatline information' provided or post another emotional uproar. . .

We are seeing similar performance from used 20g cars as we are from used HX40 cars. So why not all the hype for the 20g as a budget turbo setup? Low 11's high 10's for both seems the norm in maxed out applications. The 20g however is one of the easiest and most reliable turbos you can bolt to a DSM.

EDIT:
Also where are these 600-700 hp claims coming from? The best running HX40 car has ran 10.9, that is mid 400 wheel horsepower. I don't care if it is making 800whp on a single dyno pull, it is turning mid 400whp ET's. Due to whatever issues that is the cold hard truth, high 10's is what 1 car has ran, the rest are solidly in the 11's and 12's.

 

[Morphius]

, this thread has gone to hell in a hand basket. My head is spinning after going back to reread the entire thread.

Fix the car, come back and run it hard. The doubt will remain until a Holset thread changes from 90% talkers to at least 5% doers. There are guys in the 14b thread, one of em being Dave (Pneumo) whom has gone much faster than 95% percent of DSM Holset users.

Please step back for a second. Holsets, at least with the DSM crowd, have only been around a little more than 5 years. In the realm of DSM time, that is new. So, naturally, there aren't going to be 1000 people with results. You mention Dave and his accomplishment. Sure it's a great feat, but using your logic, the 14b has been on the DSM platform for 20 years now, where was he and the others 15 years ago??? How about 10 years ago??? Hell, they should have been running 11's, 10's and 9's in 1995. I'm not going to go rag Dave and the other 14b record pursuers about why it's taken them that long. It's simple. Refinement takes time. Look at the evolution of the DSM crowd. 10 years ago, some of the fastest were shooting it out for tens and they were tin cans. Now the norm is full weight cars running 9's.

Only thing consistent is how often they blow up.

That I can argue with. There are HUNDREDS of thousands of Holsets running around on cummins trucks with hundreds of thousands of miles. I for one, have a 2003 Dodge CTD with over 226K on it. I'm looking to buy another with over 505K for parts that still runs and drives with an untouched motor/turbo. My truck has towed heavy all it's life. It sees over 30psi all the time loaded to 28K. To say they consistently blow up, is not true.

The underlying issue is the platform they are retrofit on. Holset calls out some specifics for oil pressure and drain requirements, which largely, the crowd here was unaware of in the start. Some ignored the recommendations and ran them without the provisions thinking they would get by. Some have worked, some haven't. But it can be said with certainty, that if setup with the proper oiling and drain provisions, they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.

I'd just like to see results like everyone else. Guys like Diambo, Pneumo, myself and others. We have all ran the times you are claiming these turbos are capable of, long ago yet we still see no consistent proof. Thats all we'd like to see.

You'd like to be spoon fed like everyone else. There are results. In the results thread. Heaven forbid, we organize it for the convience of people like yourself. Sure there aren't hundreds of users with track/dyno results here, but it continues to grow. If you want more results, go visit the Saab site, Honda sites, Mopar sites amonst others.

With that being noted, we've yet to see from the Holset master himself what these things are capable of...

I wasn't going to step into this portion of the discussion, but I will ask: What difference is that going to make? He's enthusiastic about them. He runs one. Maybe he doesn't frequent dynos or strips. I don't. I don't care to. He's helped document info from users that have. I don't recall him ever saying this is the best turbo or even magical. It's simply a low cost, durable upgrade that performs well. Most DSMer's are looking for bang for the buck. It's really hard to beat these. Are they going to set records? I don't know. Maybe not. I don't think that was ever the goal. As more start pushing them to the limits, people are finding they are capable of some pretty impressive numbers. Plain and simple.

...no one could even give me the slightest bit of info I seeked, definitely defeating the purpose of SEVEN dedicated Holset threads, not to mention numerous off shoots such as these... I found the info I was looking for and decided to stick with my BW,

Are you sure your question got answered? Because you keep bringing it up. What exactly are you so bent over? We didn't spoon feed you? There isn't enough specific info with a results thread, oiling thread, oil return thread, etc, or even a FAQ (although new)? Excuse the community for concentrating the info to a few threads and not hundreds. I guess you'd rather search hundreds of threads for the term (for example) twin scroll (relating to a Holset), than 7 discussion threads for posts when you know it'll be inregards to a Holset?

Another thing to note is that we've become the benchmark for numerous other sites. People are joining this site and posting here from other boards asking questions. Sure, alot of things get rehashed as new people join the discussion. I wish they would go back and reread some of the existing info, but I understand the gravity of the amount of posts to dig through and not every question has been answered before.

As time has gone by, you can see that the off shoot specific topic threads have evolved. This has reduced the rehash of info to some extent. The threads don't grow nearly as quick as they used to. As the FAQ grows, this too will reduce the posting in the discussion thread (and other offshoot threads) more. However, there will always be users with something unique that drives some discussion.

How sickening it is for someone to want to search this forum to learn about these turbos only to find threads full of vague information and empty promises dating YEARS back.

Again, 5 years. The documentation is evolving. The number of people that use them continues to grow here. The information doesn't come overnight. So, step back and chill.

That is my qualm, my peeve, the chip on my shoulder if you will. I'm far from a Holset hater, but I just want some flat line information, not from promises, not from track times littered with excuses, just clean hard runs on DSMs or at the very lease a 4G equipped car. (Preferably not an EVO, but at this point, I'd take anything).

Here we are, dancing around the 'information' again. Spell it out. What are you looking for? Be very specific.

Do I believe that that these turbos for the price are one of the better bang for a buck options, hell yes I do, but as EVERYONE from the out side who has posted in these threads have stated, they simply haven't lived up to the hype.

I guess, I just don't see the hype. Please define the hype for me. Be very specific.

 

[danl]

I guess, I just don't see the hype. Please define the hype for me. Be very specific.

An example of hype is touting 600-700 "potential" hp claims on a car running 10.90's. If these turbos have been around for DSM's for 5+ years, have 600-700hp potential, then why are 99.9% of them running 11's? That is Garret 50 trim territory, 48lb/min territory. I know the dammed thing is an upgrade, but its not throwing down the ET like it seems it should in theory.

The evo3 16g has been around for about the same time, and it has gone 10's on numerous cars for example.

 

[Morphius]

An example of hype is touting 600-700 "potential" hp claims on a car running 10.90's. If these turbos have been around for DSM's for 5+ years, have 600-700hp potential, then why are 99.9% of them running 11's? That is Garret 50 trim territory, 48lb/min territory. I know the dammed thing is an upgrade, but its not throwing down the ET like it seems it should in theory.

Not everyone can drive like a Bucci, Brown, Shepherd or for instance Furman (yea I know, it's none DSM). Racing experience helps. Car setup/tune helps. Alot of these guys have a largely stock car and bolt this turbo on. No suspension tuning, etc. It's the details that make the fastest guys simply the fastest.

Hell, using your logic a 14b has 10's potential and has been around for 20+ years. Why aren't 99.9% of them running that fast?? That's easy. Because there are many more factors that go into making a 10's run than simply bolting on a 14b. However, the potential is there with the right factors in place.

The evo3 16g has been around for about the same time, and it has gone 10's on numerous cars for example.

When did a 16g car first go 10's?