FP 68HTA pics...for those who are curious.

[JusMX141]

A little comparison for anyone interested in seeing the aero tech of the HTA68 wheel with the compressor cover removed.

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The compressor inducer is around 51mm, putting the HTA68 in between the 18G (50.2mm) and the 20G (52.5mm) inducer specs:

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The exducer remains the same for all Big 16G thru 20G compressors, 68mm:

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From a side-angle comparison to a MHI 20G wheel, you can see that the HTA68 wheel is overall much longer than the standard MHI wheel. The hub area of the HTA68 is also greatly reduced, meaning the HTA68 wheel weighs less and has a much larger surface area to each fin, resulting in greater efficiency:

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[donniekak]

Is the turbine a stock mhi td05h?

 

[gofer]

Is the turbine a stock mhi td05h?

Yes, you can read all about it here at Forced Performance.

Good pictures Justin, any chance you have a HTA68 compressor map from FP since they seem so reluctant to show everyone? Heres one I took of a Big 16g side by side with the HTA68, since thats what compressor housing FP uses to build them.

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[JusMX141]

Good pictures Justin, any chance you have a HTA68 compressor map from FP since they seem so reluctant to show everyone?

Unfortunately not- I wish I had the knowledge to generate compressor maps.

Heres one I took of a Big 16g side by side with the HTA68, since thats what compressor housing FP uses to build them.

Not just the compressor cover, the entire turbo. A HTA68 is a Big 16G with a larger compressor wheel.

They basically take an off-the-shelf Big 16G, remove the compressor wheel, install the HTA68 wheel, rebalance the rotating assembly, then machine the cover to fit the HTA68 wheel and reassemble the turbo with a $400 higher price tag. Not bad for an hour or so worth of work!

 

[aero_sallee]

Unfortunately not- I wish I had the knowledge to generate compressor maps.

I talked to my friend who worked at the Gas turbine lab at Kansas State University over the summer. He looked into the cost for having a map generated for a turbo. Ouch, its $3k-$7k area for an automotive sized turbo.

 

[donniekak]

Yes, you can read all about it here at Forced Performance.

I haven't seen pictures of the hotside and was wondering if it was clipped, or manufactured with less blades. When this turbo came out people were talking about hotside "tweaks".

 

[JusMX141]

I talked to my friend who worked at the Gas turbine lab at Kansas State University over the summer. He looked into the cost for having a map generated for a turbo. Ouch, its $3k-$7k area for an automotive sized turbo.

...which is probably why there isn't one for the HTA68. FP knows that it will perform somewhere in the realm of a 20G, perhaps better if it's built more efficiently.

I haven't seen pictures of the hotside and was wondering if it was clipped, or manufactured with less blades. When this turbo came out people were talking about hotside "tweaks".

Off-the-shelf TD05H. The turbine housing is not even ported.

 

[aero_sallee]

...which is probably why there isn't one for the HTA68. FP knows that it will perform somewhere in the realm of a 20G, perhaps better if it's built more efficiently.

Yep. I was disappointed, but not surprised. Was interested in getting some holset maps.

 

[dsm-onster]

To get a realistic map:

1. IAT sensor before compressor
2. IAT sensor after comrpessor before all piping
3. Accurate maf
4. Accurate baro or map between maf and compressor

The IAT sensors need to respond rapidly like a gm IAT sensor we all use for speed density. The baro/map before is only if you're concerned about starting inlet pressure. In this case, the fp68hta compressor wheel likely will not overrun the very accurate 2g maf which is a volume flow meter. Therefore, you wouldn't really need it you would be generating a cfm compressor map. The difference of the temperatures with respect to kelvin is the efficiency drop. You can actually calculate the rpms but who cares, you're just looking at where it all goes south and know that's the limit of the compressor.

Run at 10psi, 15psi, 20 psi, then go up after that in 1-2 psi incriments. Logging the delta temp and the various resulting cfm from the raw hertz count. Results will start to look like islands on a quad ruled pad.

While you're doing all this you are tuning your car, you're finding the best timing curve for each boost increase. So you're not wasting really any time just to do this alone.

 

[jm1080]

Wish I could get my hands on that wheel and just modify my evo 16g with it.

 

[dsm-onster]

Billet hx40 compressor wheels go for, what, 200ish (maybe that's with the compressor cover too)? probably less. Balancing and cutting can be done at gpop shop very affordably. But you're still close to the cost after it's all said and done. Unless I'm wrong about the cost of billet wheels. . . Which I probably am.

You're still running an oversized compressor for the turbine.

 

[gofer]

The reason I asked about getting a compressor map is because I'm getting compressor surge running 29psi, its only as I hit full boost though. My wastegate spring is 13psi (.9 bar) and seems like it might be blowing open violently when its hitting full psi. It might also be the 2g (ported) exhaust manifold I have, maybe its time to make the switch to a FP exhaust manifold. Or I just need to simply turn down the boost because the HTA68 doesn't like 29psi at 4k?

Heres more pictures of the turbine wheel of the HTA68 and the ported hotside FP sent with it...

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[dsm-onster]

Typical td05h turbine wheel for you. In the pic, you see it. In the real world, it's surging

td05h 20g turbos are reputed for the same. . . It's an oversized compressor for the turbine, as I mentioned.

 

[JusMX141]

I'm getting compressor surge running 29psi, its only as I hit full boost though.

The turbo is producing more airflow than the engine can consume or more airflow than the engine can dispose of through the smallish turbine wheel and housing for a split second at a certain RPM at that boost level. Turbine clipping or a larger turbine would remedy this problem, and it may be something FP looks at in the future as guys like yourself seem to already be pushing these turbos to their limit.

 

[-red97rum-]

My TDO5H 20g in an unported Evo III turbine housing would do the same thing.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Couldn't some cam degreeing alleviate that problem alittle?

 

[We're on Boost]

The reason I asked about getting a compressor map is because I'm getting compressor surge running 29psi, its only as I hit full boost though.

Oh yeah, then you want to see the surge line on the compressor map.
Like others have said, you'll never get one from FP. They probably don't even have one for themselves.
You could get a clue I think from this map for the BW S200SX-51. The wheel is not exactly the same of course, but pretty similar. Compressor wheel diameters are about the same, 7 blades, small non-recirc inlet compressor housing, similar max airflow.
What's interesting is, BW also puts this same wheel in a larger housing with a recirc inlet (for a different application - the BV63), and wow does it ever move the surge line to the left with that housing. Anyway, in this small housing you can see that you would probably be on the wrong side of the surge line under the conditions you are talking about, I think.
By the way, BW is starting to make the larger recirc inlet compressor covers available for some of these smaller turbos.

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[danl]

I want to post a useful reply, but I don't feel like arguing.

 

[94awdcoupe]

thanks for posting pics. can you measure how much wider (longer) the hta68 is?

 

[We're on Boost]

Corey, what are the red curves on the dyno chart that is in your profile?

 

[turboglenn]

nice chart..possible 400 - 420 hp at 70% efficient and 30psi, but with a surge line like that you're gonna hate it on the highway when you hit a hill and make 20psi at 1/3rd throttle (but my 57 is the same and those are tow fo the most slanted surge lines i've seen for things that work in our conditions

 

[gofer]

Corey, what are the red curves on the dyno chart that is in your profile?

The red line on my dyno graph in my profile is what my original hp/tq numbers that were put down on the first pull, which was my street tune on 20psi.

nice chart..possible 400 - 420 hp at 70% efficient and 30psi, but with a surge line like that you're gonna hate it on the highway when you hit a hill and make 20psi at 1/3rd throttle (but my 57 is the same and those are tow fo the most slanted surge lines i've seen for things that work in our conditions

I wish I knew how to read a compressor map, I think if Forced Performance would actually get one for the HTA68 I'd learn how to since thats the turbo I'm running and its surging going into boost at 29psi.

 

[turbotalon1g]

So has anyone run a solid 32psi or more to 7k or 7500rpm. I was told by robert on the phone that this turbo would do it, I want see a dyno graph of it.

FYI I did 410/440 with a E316G, 170k stock bottom end, HKS264/272.

Also I might be testing a supposed competitor to this turbo hopefully before the snow flies.

 

[AlphaVision]

Just to add to the thread. I have an unported FP68HTA. It doesn't even look new and the turbine housing outlet has a nasty edge that needs to be grinded. I will port the hotside to match my FP Race manifold. Corey, is the wastegate part of the hotside ported as well? It seems different than mine on your pictures.

Here are some pictures of mine:

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[skatershawn]

that looks new to me!!!
But i just want to say im jealous, ive been wanting this since the day it came out.. i was planning on running it at 25psi, and love the way i would keep the stock look!

happy to see some results and reviews on it other than whats on the FP site!