1G Is This a Bad Balance Shaft Belt?

[XC92]

A year and a half ago I replaced everything timing belt related, timing and balance shaft belts, pulleys, tensioners, seals, water pump, etc. I used an OEM TB and what I believed to be a genuine Gates Kevlar racing BSB. Everything ran fine afterward, but as a sanity check I took the cover off last summer while overhauling the intake & exhaust, and took some photos. Everything looked fine, timing was perfect, no oil or anything out of place, so I put everything back on and things have been good.

But just now while looking at photos I've taken over the past few years while working on the car, I noticed what could potentially be a problem. The timing belt looks fine, but the balance shaft belt just doesn't look right, like either there's a layer of crud on the teeth peaks, or the outer layer is delaminating. Now I'm wondering if I got a counterfeit and it's liable to come apart and destroy the engine.

Here's what I mean:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Does this look off? I bought it on eBay from MAPerformance for around $30.

And, if this is a bad belt, this job was long ago enough that I can't quite recall, can it be replaced without taking everything else off, especially the hydraulic tensioner? I'd hate to have to redo the entire TB job as it's so exacting.

FWIW here's what it looked like when I installed it:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[DSMPT]

Now I'm wondering if I got a counterfeit

I don't think it's a counterfeit. The belt looks genuine. But the belt has rust and doesn't look so good, probably it got water/coolant. I wouldn't take a risk, would replace it with new just for safety.

Does this look off? I bought it on eBay from MAPerformance for around $30.

If it's just a little grease coming out, that's kinda normal.

can it be replaced without taking everything else off, especially the hydraulic tensioner? I'd hate to have to redo the entire TB job as it's so exacting.

To replace the balance shaft belt, yes, you would need to remove and redo the timing belt.

FWIW here's what it looked like when I installed it:

In the last pic, the tensioner pulley is on backwards.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Your last picture is of another block. So not sure on that as to how they match engines??

As for the wear, all these color belts wear off. Some faster then others, my HKS took some time and my TODA also has taken some time but they all wear off from riding on the pullys. Nothing to worry about there.

The teeth wear might be a bit of dirt or some of the kevlar fibers. If nothing is stretched or pulling apart and timing is good then leave it as it is as its working well

 

[pauleyman]

Definitely from different time. The pulley has different orientation in each pic. One way the flange is inside the other pic the flange is outside. The pulley is not reversible by the way.

 

[XC92]

Definitely from different time. The pulley has different orientation in each pic. One way the flange is inside the other pic the flange is outside. The pulley is not reversible by the way.

Yeah the third, before photo was from the initial setup. I later caught my mistake and corrected it so it faces properly as in the after, first two photos.

Your last picture is of another block. So not sure on that as to how they match engines??

As for the wear, all these color belts wear off. Some faster then others, my HKS took some time and my TODA also has taken some time but they all wear off from riding on the pullys. Nothing to worry about there.

The teeth wear might be a bit of dirt or some of the kevlar fibers. If nothing is stretched or pulling apart and timing is good then leave it as it is as its working well

Same block, tensioner was just wrong in the before photo, plus it was cleaner as this was several years prior (I actually did the job in mid-2021, not 2022) and I hadn't yet installed the hydraulic tentioner. And, I'll probably remove the cover again to check the belt to make sure it's ok. I have to do some work there anyway (replace driver's side engine mount bushing).

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

This is one reason why some people do a balance shaft delete. Good catch, it looks like part of the inside of the belt is separating. Time to service it.

 

[XC92]

This is one reason why some people do a balance shaft delete. Good catch, it looks like part of the inside of the belt is separating. Time to service it.

Yeah, that's what it looks like to me but I won't be able to tell for sure until I have a look up close. It's also why I suspected that it was a counterfeit. These tend to sell for more than $30 and usually come in a kit with the TB. TGTBT?

 

[danl]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

That looks to be coming apart to me. The two times I’ve lost the belt, the layer that touches the teeth delaminates. Here is a picture of the last failure, gates belt, not installed by me.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[XC92]

That looks to be coming apart to me. The two times I’ve lost the belt, the layer that touches the teeth delaminates. Here is a picture of the last failure, gates belt, not installed by me.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Wow, that's nasty. Looks like a TB though. When I replaced both belts just over 2 years ago, the old TB looked to be in serviceable condition but the BSB was just about ready to go. Do they tend to go more quickly and often and if so is there some reason for that?

 

[danl]

The point I was trying to make is the failure mode.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Contamination from oils or other fluids are the main culprits that we all fight.

 

[steve]

It used to be that shops and people didn't know they needed to change both the TB and BSB at the same time, so it wasn't unusual for the BSB to fail cause it was old and take out the TB.

I don't hear that as much anymore but there could be many reasons why. (BS Removal being one).

 

[92AWDHX40]

Removed mine long ago no more issues.

 

[chrysler kid]

to specifically answer the question your asked, the gates racing belt loses its blue color as it wears down. its not unusual for the blue coating to wear down as the belt ages. it should remain a powder blue color to indicate it hasnt been exposed to fluid. if it becomes dark blue it is an indication of exposure to fluids

I dont see anything too concearning in the pictures. the main concearn for the balance shaft belt is fluid contamination. if coolant or oil has touched the belt then replace it.

 

[XC92]

to specifically answer the question your asked, the gates racing belt loses its blue color as it wears down. its not unusual for the blue coating to wear down as the belt ages. it should remain a powder blue color to indicate it hasnt been exposed to fluid. if it becomes dark blue it is an indication of exposure to fluids

I dont see anything too concearning in the pictures. the main concearn for the balance shaft belt is fluid contamination. if coolant or oil has touched the belt then replace it.

But what about the apparent separation of the teeth liner from the teeth? Could that not lead to premature teeth wear or cracking or the lining coming completely off and getting caught in one of the pulleys or tensioners, leading to the TB skipping?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I thought I saw the belt trying to separate but maybe it is just color in the picture. It looked like it was trying to though. I did notice one thing in the first picture, the balance shaft sprocket and the belt both have the same "gunk" on them, what is it? Any rust on the sprockets?
Also, in the last picture, I see you have the timing plate on BEFORE the balance shaft pulley on the crank, it is supposed to be the other way around. I found a diagram to show.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[XC92]

I thought I saw the belt trying to separate but maybe it is just color in the picture. It looked like it was trying to though. I did notice one thing in the first picture, the balance shaft sprocket and the belt both have the same "gunk" on them, what is it? Any rust on the sprockets?
Also, in the last picture, I see you have the timing plate on BEFORE the balance shaft pulley on the crank, it is supposed to be the other way around. I found a diagram to show.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Yeah as I explained above the "before" photo was before I was done and I saw and fixes my mistake afterwards, as you can see in the "after" photo. I only posted it to show the initial condition of the belt and pulleys.

I wonder if maybe I tensioned the BSB too much and it's causing the belt teeth to rub against the cog teeth and gradually slide off the upper black layer. It looks like there might be less than ideal meshing from these photos.

Looks like at the very least I need to remove the cover and see for myself up close what's going on and if it's just an illusion where dirt looks like separation or if it's actual separation.

Unfortunately it's way too cold here right now to do a proper TB job, or even just take the cover off as that's pretty involved in itself. I might just risk it till early spring and just not push the car too hard.

 

[chrysler kid]

But what about the apparent separation of the teeth liner from the teeth? Could that not lead to premature teeth wear or cracking or the lining coming completely off and getting caught in one of the pulleys or tensioners, leading to the TB skipping?

I dont see any liner on the teeth, I see evidence of surface rust on the belt and on a bolt next to the belt and on the sprocket

 

[XC92]

I dont see any liner on the teeth, I see evidence of surface rust on the belt and on a bolt next to the belt and on the sprocket

Doesn't there appear to be an air gap between the black liner and blue teeth in the first 2 photos that indicates separation? There's definitely a liner as shown in the third photo, taken when the belt was new and unused. This appears to be separate from any dirt, grease, oil and rust there.

 

[chrysler kid]

Doesn't there appear to be an air gap between the black liner and blue teeth in the first 2 photos that indicates separation? There's definitely a liner as shown in the third photo, taken when the belt was new and unused. This appears to be separate from any dirt, grease, oil and rust there.

ok i see it now. its lost adhesion at the top of the tooth

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Now....what caused it? And what belt is the BEST balance shaft belt if you still run them?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Damn i had a bs shred on my first dsm it didnt do any damage to anything, but it was eliminated to a new build anyway. I dont think i ever know saw on any engines ive seen