Holset Turbos, PART 3

[ceedawg]

I think this thread needs to be cleaned up, or split, a lot of this stuff has nothing to do with Holsets, although good information.

On topic, my 8-blade HX35 with the stock twin-scroll T3 turbine housing, is doing 38lb/min @ ~20psi on a stock 2g MAS. As a side note, my manifold is undivided, has a Tial 38mm off the collector, and the Holset turbine housing was previously internally wastegated, the flapper hole has been welded shut. I'm seeing very fast spool-up, I've Google'd the number stamped on my turbine housing with no results, I'm guessing its one of the smaller turbine housings(12cm maybe), as it was previously internally wastegated.

I'll post some DSMlink logs and hopefully some dyno results in the near future, as I've yet to do any tuning, which is what surprises me most about the spool-up.

The 12cm housing will be a "choker" especially topend. Get a T3 .70 A/R hsing since you r using an undivided mani and you will see even more of a well rounded difference.


By the way all of the info posted in this thread is all related in putting together different or the best setups together using the HOLSET turbos ,so I don't see why the thread needs to be modified. There is ton's of good info here for people to use,pick and think about concerning different ways to go if not better ways to go. I sure have learned alot by this thread.


If you have something to bring with your setup and later your logs then fantastic. Anything you can add about your setup would be fntastic.Good luck!

 

[GORBS88]

Here is a pic of the hx-40 6 blade mounted.

 

[kicker91laser]

Good stuff, what size 90* elbow are you using coming out of the comp cover?

 

[GORBS88]

Good stuff, what size 90* elbow are you using coming out of the comp cover?

It's 2.5 inch right off the turbo.

 

[dsmmike50t]

Anyone have an fp race manifold with an hx40 or hx35. Does the fp manifold allow enough space between the comp housing and waterpipe. If anyone has any pics please post.

 

[ceedawg]

Anyone have an fp race manifold with an hx40 or hx35. Does the fp manifold allow enough space between the comp housing and waterpipe. If anyone has any pics please post.

There are two other full complete Holset threads posted here in DSM tuners forum,in the mean time you might wanna locate the two other threads and put"Fp race manifold" in the search this forum window of the thread.

Go ahead try it!

 

[dsmconvict]

Anyone have an fp race manifold with an hx40 or hx35. Does the fp manifold allow enough space between the comp housing and waterpipe. If anyone has any pics please post.

I know assault187 is running a fp mani and a bep hx40 pro. Don't know what he had to do. Maybe he'll chime in.

 

[dsmmike50t]

I tried that Ceedawg, but only found references to what some guys are running in combination with there hx40,35.

BTW I used the "search this thread" feature.

 

[dsm-onster]

I think this thread needs to be cleaned up, or split, a lot of this stuff has nothing to do with Holsets, although good information.

On topic, my 8-blade HX35 with the stock twin-scroll T3 turbine housing, is doing 38lb/min @ ~20psi on a stock 2g MAS. As a side note, my manifold is undivided, has a Tial 38mm off the collector, and the Holset turbine housing was previously internally wastegated, the flapper hole has been welded shut. I'm seeing very fast spool-up, I've Google'd the number stamped on my turbine housing with no results, I'm guessing its one of the smaller turbine housings(12cm maybe), as it was previously internally wastegated.

I'll post some DSMlink logs and hopefully some dyno results in the near future, as I've yet to do any tuning, which is what surprises me most about the spool-up.

Ceedawg, I don't think a 12cm^2 turbine housing is a choke if the above is done. Remember you taught us not to compare a ts turbine housing to a single scroll. He's in effect has a single scroll housing. Both scrolls are seen by each pulse. In a ts housing, each exhaust pulse only sees one side of the whole turbine housing.

Spidey, what is the spool time, generally? What's fast to one may be slow to another. There are some scary fast spooling turbos that can flow 38 lbs/min at 20 psi.

And I agree with Ceedawg that discussing dual wastegates is very pertinent to this thread. Jeremiah. . . You're probably right. Who knows the magnitude of "gas exchange" at a single divided wastegate? And the turbine wheel is still there to accept flow, too. . .There probably is very little chance of the exhaust gases getting all the way to the exhausting cylinder from the wastegate. . .

 

[Spidey]

I'll do some spool testing once I get a tune, but if I step on it at 3000rpms I hit 26psi before 4000rpms... Here are some logs at around 26psi with 2% fuel taken out. I'm on a stock rebuilt 6-bolt, stock rebuilt 1g head/cams/intake, and stock 2g MAS. I have some HKS 272s I'll be throwing in at some point but I'd like to see what it can do as is right now. I'm currently also running a 8" long or so 3" open downpipe, which I'd guess is hurting spool a bit, but its still good enough for me. Relevant mods are FIC 750cc injectors, Walbro 190 pump, 2.5" IC piping to a 24x10x3" ebay FMIC, FP 4" intake, etc. Sorry about the wheelspin

 

[JWoodley]

I'll be installing my HX40 pro with FP Race Mani at some point this week. I also have a spacer from RRE just incase.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'll do some spool testing once I get a tune, but if I step on it at 3000rpms I hit 26psi before 4000rpms... Here are some logs at around 26psi with 2% fuel taken out. I'm on a stock rebuilt 6-bolt, stock rebuilt 1g head/cams/intake, and stock 2g MAS. I have some HKS 272s I'll be throwing in at some point but I'd like to see what it can do as is right now. I'm currently also running a 8" long or so 3" open downpipe, which I'd guess is hurting spool a bit, but its still good enough for me. Relevant mods are FIC 750cc injectors, Walbro 190 pump, 2.5" IC piping to a 24x10x3" ebay FMIC, FP 4" intake, etc. Sorry about the wheelspin

The wheel spin in the 3rd log is terrible . You're powerband will change for sure with the 272s. You'll see slower spool but probably 3 lbs/min more airflow at peak at the same boost. I wonder why boostest is showing 29psi when you say you're running 26 psi. . . Do you know if your gauge is off? Could there be a boost leak?

Either way, 26psi before 4K is excellent! Especially for just throwing on an hx35 (that divider has got to cause some turbulance, even ground down). Someone with stock cams and looking for a cheap, tough turbo for the street that can push well over 40 lbs/min should be very excited to see this.

BTW, your short wide exhaust helps spool speed. It certainly doesn't hurt it.

I have my h1c with bep housing and external o2 housing wastegate installed. I bought a cummins pickup truck braided turbo oil feed line and I got some adapters to install from the oil filter housing to the line. I still have to get the intake and exhaust back on. I want to get some logs by the end of the week.

 

[JWoodley]

FWIW, the oil return fitting is T3/T4. I searched through several hundred posts and couldn't find a definitive answer. I finally went out and measured the flange and called a few vendors to get the answer.

 

[Spidey]

Haha it is so fun though Boost could very well be spiking to 28-29psi but I've been trying to watch the road when it 'hits' for safety The gauge and BoostEst were dead on at 20psi, I'm not sure why it would change with cranking up the boost other than a leak, I'll have to do a leak test this weekend and also get some other things fixed up. The gauge is a Defi D-gauge, I'd say they're pretty accurate at least based on reviews and all, but I'll have a MAP sensor soon anyway.

All in all I'm very pleased with this setup, I had a 14b prior to this and I honestly don't mind the difference in spool at all, very tolerable. I'm just going on experience as far as open downpipes hurting spool, I ran an open downpipe with the 14b and the car felt much more sluggish on the low end compared to being routed into the cat-back but that could have just been off-boost.

I'll be looking forward to logs from everyone, and I'll surely post more as I begin to tune this thing

 

[ceedawg]

Ceedawg, I don't think a 12cm^2 turbine housing is a choke if the above is done. Remember you taught us not to compare a ts turbine housing to a single scroll. He's in effect has a single scroll housing. Both scrolls are seen by each pulse. In a ts housing, each exhaust pulse only sees one side of the whole turbine housing.
.

Well after having a few pm discussions with Steve ,he seemed to think that the 12cm stck hsing chokes the HX35's potential topend whether the mani is divided or not. Most folks inclding ,Steve recommended the 14cm divided hsing for the HX 35 or the T3 .70/8 A/R divided hsing for the HX35. Perhaps Steve could come and confirm. This is also why I would not go lower than a 16cm divided TS with a TS mani on my car. More than likely I'll be going with the 18.5cm I just purchased if I knew where I could get it laithed.


Using the 12cm holset hsing would almost be like using an undivided T3 A/R .48 Garrett turbine hsing.

The 14cm undivided hsing is rumored to be like .67 to .70 A/R as you see in my sig. I'm guessing this would kind of equate to having a T3 garrett undivided hsing A/R equivalent to somewhere in the mid to upper .50's or low .60's(.63A/R).


It's tru that you need to go bigger when using TS hsing ,but with that undivided mani with the divided 12cm hsing this may be the reason that Spidey has such quick spoolup due to the small 12cm divided hsing.
My final thoughts on the .78A/R garrett divided hsing is that it would perhap be the equivalent to using a 16cm Holset hsing.

The more I look at these,the more I'm liking the 18cm hsing for my 6 bladed HX40

 

[GORBS88]

Well were on the topic of spool times, with my hx-40 pro in 4th gear starting at 2500rpm i get 20psi by 4k. This is with 272 cams.

 

[Spidey]

Just curious for those of you running bolt-on housings and Holsets, what is your total investment so far for a Holset setup?(turbo, oil lines, exhaust work, wastegates, etc)

 

[420a-t]

I was wondering what you guys torque the bolts to that hold on the exhaust housing when switching to a bep bolt-on housing? Thanks

 

[dsmmike50t]

I'll be installing my HX40 pro with FP Race Mani at some point this week. I also have a spacer from RRE just incase.

I'm looking into the spacers from rre right know, thanks I heard about spacers a while back but never found a company that sells them. Post up your results or even better some pics if possible when its on.

 

[JWoodley]

Just curious for those of you running bolt-on housings and Holsets, what is your total investment so far for a Holset setup?(turbo, oil lines, exhaust work, wastegates, etc)

Turbo w/ BEP Housing + internal gate - $800
FP Oil Return - $50
Reused oil feed from my MHI setup

Extras:
FP Race Mani - $235
RRE Spacer (just in case) - $50
FP 4" Intake - $70
GM MAFT Setup - $230ish
BC 272s - $325
Visteon Radiator - $250
FIC 850s - $250
DSMLink - $545

Possibles:
AEM WB - $245


I wish I wouldn't have totaled this up.

 

[420a-t]

holset+ bep housing with flapper+internal gate and some fabbing up for a stock actuator- $475
oil return-free from a friend
oil feed- free (I"m using a -4an ss line from my previous setup)
gaskets came with my turbo, and I plan to make some out of gasket paper/rtv

So...475 shipped.

 

[dsm-onster]

H1C......................................................................................... $100
Used hx35 BEP housing.............................................................. $100
Ebay dsm tubular 02housing......................................................... $50
38mm TIAL wg knockoff w/ flanges............................................... $70
Modding my current IC piping About.............................................. $20
H1C oil feed line, extension, and adapters for oil filter housing About $20
Hacked T3 oil return line............................................................... Free

Total.......................................................................................... $360

About $50 more for shipping. So $410.

Pesonal labor: Cut the o2 housing and welded flanges for the external wg. The used bep housing had the internal wg hole welded. So a few hours with a mini diegrinder and the power my air compressor used.

If I bought a real TIAL external wastegate ($200) and a new bep housing ($250) and had to buy a used t3 oil line to hack ($20), I would have $640 invested. Not bad for a bolt-on with external gate.

External gate o2 housings are $280-$300 or more.



GORBS88, I can't remember. Which turbine housing are you running? This is a hx40 not a hybrid, right?

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm looking into the spacers from rre right know, thanks I heard about spacers a while back but never found a company that sells them. Post up your results or even better some pics if possible when its on.

By spacer, do you mean at the head to exhaut mani junction or the exhaust mani to turbo junction?

 

[JWoodley]

By spacer, do you mean at the head to exhaut mani junction or the exhaust mani to turbo junction?

Head to manifold.


Is anyone running their Holset with an FP Race Mani? How is clearance? A local guy with an OBX tubular had zero issues with his waterpipe clearance.

If you're running the FP manifold, post up some pics!

 

[dsmconvict]

Ebay dsm tubular 02housing......................................................... $50
38mm TIAL wg knockoff w/ flanges............................................... $70

Sorry to get off topic. What exact brand did you go with and any good luck with them?