Evo3 vs FP manifold

[94'TSI'AWD]

I got an MHI evo3 Big 16G turbo for $275 the other day and now i need a new manifold. What would be better A Forced Performance Manifold or an Evo 3 Manifold. I am buying it from a friend and there is only a $50 difference between the two but for power output and flow and spool time which would be better? Obviously the FP has a bigger collector and runners but I dont know much about them. But the Evo3 Is rated the best factory exhaust manifold, i'm only planning for 300 -350 Hp would the stock evo 3 mani be good for that or should i get the FP? Please help

 

[pboglio]

Rarson,

Yes, every setup is different. The FP manifold has a much higher surface area than the compact stocker due to its tubular design and simply puts out much more heat than the stocker. The Mitsubishi engineers designed the stocker to trap heat with thicker walls and compact runners and low surface area for quicker cat lightoff.

Regarding sealed intake boxes, here's a little story. About 5 years back I purchased a WRX STi. First mod I did was installing the K&N Typhoon airfilter kit. One of the best looking intake kits I'd seen in a while, all excited to get it installed. It had what you described, a nice large sheetmetal divider partition, should have worked beautifully. I even ran it with the large over the radiator cold air ram duct that comes factory with the Subies. Worst pile of shit I ever installed. My car hated the thing. The hot wire maf hates any changes to stock intake configurations, which was part of the problem, but the intake also heatsoaked horribly. K&N was smoking crack when they released their power figures cause my Subie lost a buttload of it.

Typically your average DSM responds well to an open airfilter, not this one. On a DSM, a sealed airbox is crushing to airflow, the Subies somehow can make some impressive power with them. In the end, I pulled the factory cold air ram duct off as I found thru pressure testing it was a restrictive component and any cold air it provided was offset by a large intake restriction, and pulled the airbox fender snorkel too. I left the entire sealed airbox in there sucking air from a corner of the engine compartment which in theory the car should hate. Car makes the most power, spool, and torque with this setup. Moderately restrictive but the airbox was sized well from the factory and works just fine at 300 h.p. What works on one car doesn't on another due to subtle physical differences that make all the difference. I run what works and looks don't matter. That car even ran a stock paper airfilter since my pressure loss testing showed it flowed identical to a K&N panel filter of the same size.

Ceramic coating the manifold would be a good idea since the newer coatings are superior to what I have I'm sure.

 

[mindset]

And why are you comparing to subarus?

 

[habitatguy187]

And why are you comparing to subarus?

Pboglio knows much more and has done more actual, personal testing than most on this site, and he could make you or I look like a fool any day of the week, so quit trying to be cool by calling him out. Just look at the threads that he's started and all the awesome info in them. So maybe he over-exaggerated, big deal, get over it.

 

[pboglio]

^^^Thanks.

The Suby analogy was made because Subaru's have a "massively long exhaust header system running directly next to the airfilter box. It is shielded but the point is to show how exhaust manifold heat can affect power and intake temps.

The air density loss going from 80* to 100-110*F is ~4-6%, directly relating to a h.p. loss of -14 to 20 h.p. right there on a 380 h.p. motor for instance. Add in the fact you lose 1* ignition timing over 84*F on a 2g in my case, not talking about DSMLINK V3 owners here, and 1* timing lost with coolant temps up over 206*F. I lose 3 h.p. or so for every 1* timing pull back, this is observed fact on my car within the 15-21* timing range. That is 3-6 h.p. lost right there, then add in anything else the knock sensor wasn't happy about when your I.C. heatsoaked since the exposed manifold is radiating straight thru the radiator to the intercooler, say another couple degrees pulled. Losing 20-30 h.p. is what I saw on the DSMLink h.p. estimates which are dead consistent, and I can add it up exactly where I lost it looking at nothing but pre & post air temps (i.e. density) and pre & post logged ignition timing.

So when somebody is like "shocked" by what I stated, they obviously are either shooting from the hip with a comment, they forgot their own tuning experiences, or they never had any tuning experiences to begin with or never analyzed their logs.

 

[2gawdtsi]

Bringing this thread back from the dead.

I'm in the market to get an fp or evo 3 manifold, I have a Pacesetter right now and its a piece. It keeps cracking, even with it wrapped my underhood temps are unbearable.

I want to keep the same performance, if not more then the pacesetter, but i am not sure i can justify 175$ more just for the fp manifold. especially if that will just have heat problems too.

Any insight?

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

I'm running a ported Evo III manifold with the stock heat shield, I havent had any problems with it and gained a lot of low-end power from it. The FP manifold is a good piece, but I think it is hyped up more than how good it really is..

 

[2gawdtsi]

Yeah, if i would be getting the fp manifold i would need to get it coated.
375-400 for a manifold is a little much for me right now and could go into different things to get my car running better.

would an evo3 manifold flow about the same as my pacesetter? i dont want to downgrade.

 

[Migsubishi]

I don't know that the pacesetter manifold has seen hp wise but I know people have made well over 600+hp on ported evo3 manifolds. Another plus is that it's cast so it holds heat in better which promotes better spool.

 

[2gawdtsi]

sounds like what im looking for.
Just trying to cut down on underhood temps.

thanks for the help.

Would you guys recommend ceramic coating, or a heatshield like the one Buschur makes?

 

[Migsubishi]

sounds like what im looking for.
Just trying to cut down on underhood temps.

thanks for the help.

Would you guys recommend ceramic coating, or a heatshield like the one Buschur makes?

i would, every little bit helps!

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

sounds like what im looking for.
Just trying to cut down on underhood temps.

thanks for the help.

Would you guys recommend ceramic coating, or a heatshield like the one Buschur makes?

I just run the stock heat shield on mine, I gave it like 8 coats of rattle can heat coating and it has been good since.

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[2gawdtsi]

What are your underhood temps like?

are you on evo 3 manifold?. I'm trying to decide between a heat shield like the one from Buschur, for 100.

Or ceramic coating, probably by TCC, for about the same. Which will give me better results?

 

[donniekak]

I use one of the old gt concepts evo3 gt manifolds that were designed for the evo3 gt turbo's from turbochargers.com. The mani comes tapped for egt, and is cast from a heavily ported evo3 manifold, just like the ebay tdo5 exhaust housings are cast from a ported evo3 turbine housing. It is very thick, made from high nickel steel, and fits the stock heat shield. The runners and collector are huge. Bets thing is i got it and a real mhi evo3 16 for $60.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

What are your underhood temps like?

are you on evo 3 manifold?. I'm trying to decide between a heat shield like the one from Buschur, for 100.

Or ceramic coating, probably by TCC, for about the same. Which will give me better results?

Yes I have a ported EvoIII manifold. They are very low, I also run a EGT gauge with mine. There is a pretty big difference without a heatshield though, I was running my manifold without one and it was getting pretty hot under the hood which is why I decided to throw it back on.

 

[2gawdtsi]

How long/difficult was it to port your manifold? would it be necessary at my mod level?

Thanks for all the help.
just found a evo 3 on ebay for 100 plus shipping. almost 1/3 of the fp.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

How long/difficult was it to port your manifold? would it be necessary at my mod level?

Thanks for all the help.
just found a evo 3 on ebay for 100 plus shipping. almost 1/3 of the fp.

It was very easy, you just have to take your time, probably took me about 3 hours to do it. Porting is good at any mod level, helps turbo spool quite a bit. You won't be disappointed with a EvoIII manifold I can promise that.

 

[2gawdtsi]

Thanks alot for the help. I'm sure i wont be disappointed.
Anything is better then the one on there currently.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Thanks alot for the help. I'm sure i wont be disappointed.
Anything is better then the one on there currently.

No problem

Ya let us know how you like it once you get it, I was pretty happy with the butt dyno gains.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I bought the FP manifold when it was on sale for $175 and wrapped the thing about three layers thick. You could let your hamster sleep on it while doing a WOT pull up a hill, and the hamster would probably be fine.

I had switched from a shielded ported DSM manifold without a sealing ring, on a ported EVO3, to the FP manifold, and the FP spooled faster even before I wrapped it. I contribute that to the downward facing runners. I have heard (after I bought a ported turbo) that the sealing ring actually helps with spool on the stocker because it increases exhaust velocity.

 

[LiquidX]

Would you mind posting some pictures of your wrap job. I'd like to see how you did it; what and how much material did you use?

 

[habitatguy187]

Porting is good at any mod level, helps turbo spool quite a bit. You won't be disappointed with a EvoIII manifold I can promise that.

Actually according to dsm-onster porting will slow spool speed in return for more top-end/high airflow performance.

 

[johnmarines]

I use one of the old gt concepts evo3 gt manifolds that were designed for the evo3 gt turbo's from turbochargers.com. The mani comes tapped for egt, and is cast from a heavily ported evo3 manifold, just like the ebay tdo5 exhaust housings are cast from a ported evo3 turbine housing. It is very thick, made from high nickel steel, and fits the stock heat shield.

I used to run this same manifold, put my 2g into the 370whp easy. I'm running a t3 now so the mainfold is just sitting in the garage

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Actually according to dsm-onster porting will slow spool speed in return for more top-end/high airflow performance.

Well I gained spool either way, but I went from a stock 1g manifold to a ported EvoIII manifold I never ran it before it was ported.

 

[streetdsmpwr]

I got my Evo III exhaust manifold for $50 and had my friend port the collector and it really helps top end big time compared to the 2G manifold. As for spool difference, I can't tell you because I put the manifold on at the same as my Evo III 16G so naturally there was more lag. Also, when I had the heat shield off there was a noticeable difference in heat under the hood. With the stock heat shield on the heat is controlled very well. The FP manifold is a very nice piece but can be very expensive. My buddy got one for his Gallant VR4 and he also got it ceramic coated which in total cost him over $350 total. He doesn't have it on the car yet so I don't know how well it controls heat. I'm sure it flows a lot better, but for that price I don't think it's not worth it unless you also have a very big turbo. If you want the FP manifold I'd wait till it goes on sale, but who knows when that will be.

 

[agentorange313]

They will go on sale soon enough, FP always runs a sale on them at least twice a year. Probably around winter time.

I run the evoIII right now because I like using my JMF heatshield for the stock manifold.

Both times they had them on sale I remember, they were 175 a piece. Def worth it.