evo3 big 16g vs FP Big T28 vs FP 68HTA

[RMawddsm]

I'm trying to build a decent auto-x car, so lots of torque and quick spool are my goals. My current setup is a t28 @ 20PSI. This has been great so far, but I've been looking around and the 2 otehr turbos that have caught my eye are the Evo3 Big 16g and the FP 68HTA.

So I've done some reading on this and I've found these flow rates:

T28 36 lb/min @ 22psi (someone said 40 if you really push it) mine hits full boost around 2800RPMs
E3B16G 43-45 lb/min @ ~25psi not sure what full boost is
FP 68HTA 47 lb/min @ unknown psi (just going off of what the website said) and unknown spool

I would hands down go for the 68HTA but there's little information on them and I need something that would spool around 3000-3250.

 

[JusMX141]

Neither the Evo III 16G or the FP 68HTA will meet your spool requirement unless you have 2.4L displacement or 10.0:1 compression.

 

[goodhart]

HTA68 is a 47 lbs/min turbo according to FP's website

"Mass flow is increased to a whopping 47lb/min which is several lb/min greater than either the E316g or the 18g wheels are capable"

 

[RMawddsm]

I could do either of those, I was worried about doing a 2.4L with the T28 because it would run out of breath real fast. The other option would probably be a 2.1l destroker with 10:1. I'm just trying to figure out the best high torque, quick spooling setup. I'm not looking for 10's, I'm looking to pass a Corvette on the outside in turn 2 and walk away from them without batting an eyelash.

 

[dsmboy96]

Go evo3 16g with a 2.4 stroker and a 9.0:1 compression. Should be plenty torquey.

 

[daren_p]

I think the FP28 vs evoIII16g has been compared on this site to many times to count, so there should be no need to bring up those two but the 68HTA vs the reg evoIII16g would be a good comparison. I think the problem will be that the 68 has just been released for the DSM platform & results will be very limited so far.

As far as spool requirements are you talking full boost at 3000-3250 (if so what boost do you plan on running?) or is that for the typical 20psi that most people quote when talking spool? Depending on the setup, a reg evoIII should be able to see 20psi at/under the 3250rpm mark on a 2.0L. As far as boost, it will vary from setup to setup but a nice flowing setup will probably see max boost around 30ish psi on the evoIII & then typically drop to 25-26psi (if your setup doesn't flow as well, ie stock cams, IM, etc, you boost may not drop as much in the upper rpms).

 

[CHPerformance]

i have a fp big t28 on mycar

 

[RMawddsm]

I think the FP28 vs evoIII16g has been compared on this site to many times to count, so there should be no need to bring up those two but the 68HTA vs the reg evoIII16g would be a good comparison.

It was more of a comparison of all 3, if I could find some spooling information about the 68HTA. I would like to run ~25 PSI which I know the T28 can do, but it requires a lot of finagling to get it done properly so this is why I am looking at the larger turbos.

Go evo3 16g with a 2.4 stroker and a 9.0:1 compression. Should be plenty torquey.

That sounds like it could be a decent setup, but I would like to avoid doing a stroker if at all possible as I could do a fairly hefty head job with 272 cams, port and polish, 1mm over-sized valves, etc. for around the same price

i have a fp big t28 on mycar

Thank you for your addition sir, very insightful and helpful to the conversation.

 

[907gs-t]

I also will be running the SBR BT-28 when it get's here.

 

[daren_p]

It was more of a comparison of all 3, if I could find some spooling information about the 68HTA. I would like to run ~25 PSI which I know the T28 can do, but it requires a lot of finagling to get it done properly so this is why I am looking at the larger turbos.


That sounds like it could be a decent setup, but I would like to avoid doing a stroker if at all possible as I could do a fairly hefty head job with 272 cams, port and polish, 1mm over-sized valves, etc. for around the same price


Thank you for your addition sir, very insightful and helpful to the conversation.

I think the evoIII on a 2.4 would be a very limited setup, I mean as far as rpms go. With that setup I doubt you will be able to run 25psi (though you can get the same flow at lower boost levels) as most well setup 2.0's will drop close to that in the upper rpms. One of our locals use to have an evoIII on his 2.3 setup & it spooled stupied fast but the top end wasn't there. If you went stroker I would think something more like a BB "50 trim" or even a FP3052 (or the new HTA version of it) would be a better choice. You would be pretty close to your spool goals & have all the top end power you can ask for. The evoIII should spool plenty quick on a 2.0L & still have descent top end.

 

[Ninharu]

How bout comparing it to a HX35? I have a fpT28 right now and I have pretty much hit the limit for what this turbo can put down on my built 2.0L. I was pretty much sold on a HX35 for my goal to hit 450 HP but with this new fp 68HTA I'm kind of at a loss as to which way to go. From what I've read about the holsets they 'should' spool around the same time as what this new turbo should do. I'm only on the street so spool times are key, but wouldn't a holset be good for autoX as well?

 

[UofACATS]

I think the evoIII on a 2.4 would be a very limited setup

For autocross, I think "Dallas J" might disagree, albeit on a functional cyclone manifold.

e.g. ...

The 2.4l with the Evo3 at 20psi and the cyclone manifold switching over at 2800rpms is another amazing combination. On street tires and 25psi I'm having 2nd gear traction problems. I cant think of a single corner I had lag. On the tightest corner by the time I got to full throttle I had full boost.

Its pretty rad, full boost at something like 2500-2700 rpms but positive pressure around 1700. Then it pulls to 7500 like a train.

 

[UofACATS]

I'm trying to build a decent auto-x car, so lots of torque and quick spool are my goals. My current setup is a t28 @ 20PSI. This has been great so far, but I've been looking around and the 2 otehr turbos that have caught my eye are the Evo3 Big 16g and the FP 68HTA.

Keep current turbo, run E85, massively increase low-end timing, and run 24-25psi. This is your best bet. Low end torque will improve dramatically, as will the midrange torque. You have a lot more potential in your current setup.

If you want a different turbo, you could try the small 16G which is known to be spool happy and efficient. I was never that impressed with the FP BigT28 spool for the airflow it provides, but it's a very tough little turbo that will take a ton of abuse.

 

[pboglio]

I don't know, almost double the price for 10% gain on what would likely be racing gas boost levels anyway. I think the difference could be better spend on suspension or tires to be honest given this is for auto-x and not a drag car/street car. Got to look at the whole picture.

 

[daren_p]

For autocross, I think "Dallas J" might disagree, albeit on a functional cyclone manifold.

e.g. ...

I guess its all relative, I don't think the top end is that great on a 2.0L with the evoIII, so I would think the 2.4 defently wouldn't help the situation. If he's running 25psi on a 2.4, I'm surprised the poor little thing can even keep up.

Then again our uses are completely different so our views on pulling like a train probably are as well.

 

[pboglio]

Don't know about the 68HTA. But Slowboy did their whole "Internal wastegate turbo" dyno test with various popular turbos. They ran a 20g wheel in a TDO5H compressor housing and a TD06 turbine section in a 7cm housing. That laid down something like 422 w.h.p. and 459 wtq. The EVO3 16g was something like 397 w.h.p. and +436 wtq. Both running as much boost as the internal gates could hold. That is a +25 w.h.p. & +23 w.tq. advantage WITH a TD06H turbine wheel upgrade, which the 68HTA doesn't have or mention. That 68HTA has about a similar peak flow of a 20g at around 47 lb/min. This is not a big difference really.

 

[SimpleSecurity]

Heres a log of my EVO316G on a 2.4L, I never run it to redline, so I couldn't tell you when it falls on its face, but I DD my car, so thats why it never sees redline.

I would think a BW 256ET on a 2.4L if 2.4 is the route your headed.

My next Turbo is going to be a BW 259ET.

 

[azonic]

2.3L with a Evo16g E85 I really would like to see the 68hta numbers, I'd love to have a little bit more topend!

 

[forcefed86]

If e85 is an option I'd say keep the 2.0 and shave the head to up the compression to 10 or even 11:1 and run the big 16g. I believe U could make full boost under 3k rpm with 11:1 comp. Worked grat on my buddys 4.1 v6. Insane response, no IC, no lag, no detonation. That being said, never tried it personally on a 4g63. Good luck! keep us posted.

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[Dallas J]

I guess its all relative, I don't think the top end is that great on a 2.0L with the evoIII, so I would think the 2.4 defently wouldn't help the situation. If he's running 25psi on a 2.4, I'm surprised the poor little thing can even keep up.

Then again our uses are completely different so our views on pulling like a train probably are as well.

As an autocrosser (IOW I don't drag race at all anymore), top end was never a concern for my car but Ive been really surprised by the little EvoIII. I do have a decent mix of parts to keep the flowing going and my logs just show airflow climbing and just starting to level off at 7k and ~40lb/min running ~22psi. I cant run more than that till I get a new clutch now.

My goal with the combination of parts I picked was to get a 3k-6k power band since our 2nd gear is so tall, but still maintain a usable 7500rpm rev limit. The results have been amazing like Ive said in other threads, to the point where I only auto-x at 17psi even with the 275s cause any more causes traction problems.

Next year with a built transmission and quaife front Ill probably run around 22psi, but right now the 17psi is just enough to be controllable while still feeling like a lot of power for an auto-x car.

Sometime this winter Ill actually jump on the dynojet at English Racing to see what the car will put down. I really think the power band will surprise people

 

[pboglio]

Topend does drop off on the EVOIII 16g, but it is highly dependant on the setup. I typically lose about 30-40 h.p. from my h.p. peak to 7000 rpms with my EVO3 16g. That is not too shabby and its a result of selecting parts that bump up high rpm volumetric efficiency. The turbo boost drops off, but the high rpm horsepower holds relatively flat.

 

[toofast82]

Either turbo you go with, I think you would like a functional Cyclone on an AutoX track! I've never raced on an AutoX, but I like my Cyclone!
The thing I don't like about that 68hta, is the tdo5h turbine as mentioned. With a tdo6h, I would look at that turbo very differently. Your'e really not gaining too much with compressor airflow compared to a 20g either

 

[pboglio]

^^Agreed. For the money, I'd rather start gaining some turbine flow since I can say that everytime I improved turbine flow the car just felt tons better even just cruising on the expressway. "Compressor only" upgrades (in the context of already owning an EVO3 16g/TD05H) tend not to provide that kind of improvement in lazy driving, just more power under heavy amounts of boost.

I think for $1000 I'd rather go with the FP TD06SL 20g and gain on both ends of the performance equation. If it were a $600 compressor upgrade to an existing 16g then my opinion would be different, hint hint This same dilema is what plagues the EVO camp, and probably why they typically just skip it and go to a HTA green right away.

 

[tsi-nigh]

Short update on this..

I just dyno'ed Dallas_J's car last week and we pulled in 326HP and 392 Tq running on 92 octane gas and through a high flow cat and 22PSI. Nice flat curve, and pulling pretty strong until we shut it down at ~7250 RPM. Lucas did the tuning..

As Dallas said, we dont really care about top HP numbers, rather a broad torque curve that is in as low as possible.
I think that with

"My goal with the combination of parts I picked was to get a 3k-6k power band since our 2nd gear is so tall, but still maintain a usable 7500rpm rev limit."

was handily met.

We will be switching over to E85 later in the spring for the AutoX season and will need another dyno to finalize the tune. I will post that number as well.

 

[jjrock5]

Great numbers.