Evo3 vs FP manifold

[94'TSI'AWD]

I got an MHI evo3 Big 16G turbo for $275 the other day and now i need a new manifold. What would be better A Forced Performance Manifold or an Evo 3 Manifold. I am buying it from a friend and there is only a $50 difference between the two but for power output and flow and spool time which would be better? Obviously the FP has a bigger collector and runners but I dont know much about them. But the Evo3 Is rated the best factory exhaust manifold, i'm only planning for 300 -350 Hp would the stock evo 3 mani be good for that or should i get the FP? Please help

 

[dsm-onster]

As well, elsewhere in these forums if you search, there is a person who net 2mph better with no other change to his setup but the fp manifold. You all know I am NOT an FP nuthugger. But this manifold ROCKS. Because of it's shape it flows like a tubular, yet is as relaible as an evo3 manifold.

I was waiting for Loncher to reply

Pboglio, the under hood temps arguement is lame . . .sorry to get on your case, but you can feed your turbo with air from the finderwell with a decent CAI that Dan is describing, since most looking at a manifold upgrade are also running a FMIC.


. . . what's with the intercooler plug two posts up??? Pboglio is runnign a ADFX intercooler, a quality core; bad endtank welding.

 

[danl]

Pboglio, the under hood temps arguement is lame . . .sorry to get on your case, but you can feed your turbo with air from the finderwell with a decent CAI that Dan is describing, since most looking at a manifold upgrade are also running a FMIC.

Think about the fenderwell and where that puts the air filter. Next time you are at the track take a temp reading about 1 foot off the ground. Now take the same temp reading at 5 feet in the air. Think about it.............

 

[falcon8r]

Think about the fenderwell and where that puts the air filter. Next time you are at the track take a temp reading about 1 foot off the ground. Now take the same temp reading at 5 feet in the air. Think about it.............

That is why the cooler air is accesed at a high point on most every race vehicle with a scoop to feed the induction. I too never liked the fender air feed. My SVO has that and I always thought poor of it but it's great for the air cleaner people. Tres...

 

[FonZ454]

Yeah, my car picked up some good MPH from switching the to the FP Race manifold...over a very ported 2g manifold... on a much warmer day too. Car went 116.5 on a cool street night to 118.5 on a 80-85* track rental.

Run a CAI and a good FMIC, and underhood temps shouldn't be much of a concern. Of course lower underhood temps help, The air at my throttlebody is colder at the end of a 11 second pass then the start of one.

Also, not to mention how much cooler the car sounds with one on;-)

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^I was hoping you'd chime in

Dan, I was thinkking about soley new air coming into the airduct. But you do have a good point. Regardless, it's colder at my track than it ever is under my hood.

 

[94'TSI'AWD]

I ended up getting the FP manifold. and for an extra $35 i also got an actual Blockoff PLATE for the EGR and a Dejon Powerhouse intake pipe as well. so for $185 total i got a decent amount of costly parts Now all i need is injectors, fuel pump and a good tune... Im thinking 660's and a tune will net me around 300AWHP without maxing out injectors?

 

[jrohner]

Here is the heat shield on the FP manifold. It works very good. Easy to clean off. Tres...

P1000926 - finally running DSMtuners Gallery

That heat shield is by far the ugliest thing under the hood. Yuck!

 

[94'TSI'AWD]

I ended up getting the FP manifold. and for an extra $35 i also got an actual Blockoff PLATE for the EGR and a Dejon Powerhouse intake pipe as well. so for $185 total i got a decent amount of costly parts Now all i need is injectors, fuel pump and a good tune... Im thinking 660's and a tune will net me around 300AWHP without maxing out injectors?

 

[toofast82]

I ended up getting the FP manifold. and for an extra $35 i also got an actual Blockoff PLATE for the EGR and a Dejon Powerhouse intake pipe as well. so for $185 total i got a decent amount of costly parts Now all i need is injectors, fuel pump and a good tune... Im thinking 660's and a tune will net me around 300AWHP without maxing out injectors?

Sounds like you got a good deal on the parts.

Your current 550cc and 255lph will get into the 300whp range.

 

[dsm-onster]

Nice finds. 660s can do 400ish with race gas (higher a/f ratio).

 

[92AWDHX40]

Thats nice to know, i have the 560s.

 

[rarson]

If you run with no heatshield, you will lose 20-30 h.p. guaranteed from the underhood temperature increase, which is enormous. Then the topend increase gets nullified.

Bull****. I've got no heat shield on my manifold, my turbo, or any of my exhaust, and I can guarantee you I'm not losing 20-30 hp (350 whp on a small 16g). I have plenty of top end.

I bet I could probably gain a hp or two by adding some shielding but I'm too lazy to do that at the moment. You're worried about underhood temperature but I'm actually more worried about keeping the heat in the exhaust. I'm fairly certain that makes more of a difference than underhood temperature.

 

[my98gsx]

go w fp. l loved mine, if they made it in a t3 flange i would have bought it. the fp was deff worth the money, and looked great

 

[rich3389]

Bull****. I've got no heat shield on my manifold, my turbo, or any of my exhaust, and I can guarantee you I'm not losing 20-30 hp (350 whp on a small 16g). I have plenty of top end.

I bet I could probably gain a hp or two by adding some shielding but I'm too lazy to do that at the moment. You're worried about underhood temperature but I'm actually more worried about keeping the heat in the exhaust. I'm fairly certain that makes more of a difference than underhood temperature.

Not trying to nit-pick, but using heat shields will lower the underhood temps, and ALSO keep the exhaust hotter. The reason running no shields makes underhood temps so high is because the exhaust is RELEASING heat into the air, thus making your exhaust housing, turbo, manifold cooler.

Also, I dont know if you DD your DSM, but running no heat shields will shortern the life of the alternator and the cooling system wont be as efficient.

 

[projekt1]

?Real quick question, will the FP race manifold allow you to use the stock heat shield???

 

[RadDsm]

?Real quick question, will the FP race manifold allow you to use the stock heat shield???

No, unless you just lay it on top and use some metal zip ties or something to keep it on.

 

[projekt1]

haha yea ok, uh um I was just kidding

 

[pboglio]

Bull****. I've got no heat shield on my manifold, my turbo, or any of my exhaust, and I can guarantee you I'm not losing 20-30 hp (350 whp on a small 16g). I have plenty of top end.

I bet I could probably gain a hp or two by adding some shielding but I'm too lazy to do that at the moment. You're worried about underhood temperature but I'm actually more worried about keeping the heat in the exhaust. I'm fairly certain that makes more of a difference than underhood temperature.

Measure your MAF temps with an UNSHIELDED manifold, in the summer, heat soaked on a nice 20 minute drive to work, at WOT. Then do this with a SHIELDED manifold. Pull off whatever cold air ducting you might have and see what you get. Lets repeat for the reading challenged, I run a 4" cold air pickup that rams the bottom of my airfilter, AND a CERAMIC coated FP exhaust manifold.

I'm saying that I saw some gutless midrange performance from the FP manifold in 80*F ambient temps and I could not determine why since the design is FAR superior to the stocker. No exhaust leaks. It clicked when I couldn't help but notice my intake temps WITH cold air RAMMING my exposed underhood airfilter were going ballistic under WOT pulls, then dropping off the cliff when I got off the throttle.

Hmm, let me see, exposed manifold at 1600*F produces a certain level of radiation, exposed airfilter is seeing cold air but line of sight to radiation source means radiation is making its way to airfilter and air near MAF. Extensive datalogging confirms said results. Tossing heatshield back on eliminates heat soak problem, power is back up, midrange is back up, topend is up. No, #### it, I imagined the whole thing. Pull FP manifold back off, stocker backon WITH heatshield. Hmm, temps stable and 10*F within ambient, gained 2 lb/min in the midrange, car has awesome midrange power again, timed acceleration runs from 60-80 mph are faster via DSMLink. Hmm, WTF. Pull stocker back off, midrange gone, topend there but, WTF, timed acceleration pulls 60-80 mph I'm slower, definitely, clearly, scientifically slower every time. Hmm, whats this, temps are insanely high. Hmm, use my engineering brain and come to the conclusion, could it be intake temps are causing the problem? No can't be, there is no correlation between intake temps and power because all dsmtuners and wisemen say so.

Do you really think the Mitsubishi engineers just said to their managers, "Hey, we are bored as shit, lets tool up an expensive plastic injection molded die to make a sealed airbox, take the time to locate it under a cramped engine compartment, freaking snake a snorkel thru a fender up under the base of the winshield and maybe a heat shield for the exhaust manifold cause we're bored and have nothing to do."

The exposed manifold is your enemy. It will COOK the #### out of your ignition wires, melt your timing belt cover, and toast your sensors. You make 350 w.h.p., thats great. BUT, you could make MORE, consistently if you SHIELD your manifold. Lets repeat, EVERY setup is different.

Get an engineer in here or someone with an idea about physics cause I'm tired of arguing that 2+2=4.

 

[dsm-onster]

Ok Pboglio. But if you have fresh ignition wires and a real cold air intake, the underhood temps cannot effect power output.

Pulling off your cold air ducting or your cold air intake placing your filter outside the bay is silly. It defeats the purpose of preventing the underhood temps from affecting your flow which you're arguing about

Point is, yes you can see VERY high intake temps with an unshielded exhaust manifold if you have no true CAI. But who upgrades the exhaust manifold BEFORE upgrading the intake pipe properly? Because even if you run a shield you still have higher underhood temps than ambient.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Get the FP manifold and have it ceramic coated, the FP manifold is a great piece.
On a customers test with our ceramic he saw 40% radiant temperature reduction, and 25% surface temperature reduction. Cool down was also greatly improved, manifold was cool to the touch in about 10 minutes after shutting off the car (after WOT pulls).

Whats your usual turn around time on ceramic coating. For instance, you get my manifold today, when does it ship back? I suppose it varies, but at the most?

I'd love to send mine to you guys, but I hate the thought if it being gone 2 weeks *including shipping times*

 

[TiradoCC]

Whats your usual turn around time on ceramic coating. For instance, you get my manifold today, when does it ship back? I suppose it varies, but at the most?

I'd love to send mine to you guys, but I hate the thought if it being gone 2 weeks *including shipping times*

It does vary, if we received it today on a friday it would more than likely go out on Monday/Tuesday.
Normal turnaround right now is about 5-10 business days.

There are instances when a customer MUST have their parts back within a certain time period. If you need it shipped back say in 2 days max, I don't have a problem doing this for you as long as you let me know before hand. This is done at no extra charge, but if I can't get it done in the time period you would like, I will tell you upfront.

I noticed you are in North Carolina, if you need some references talk to Robbie @ Epic Motorsports or Justin @ Force-Fed Performance

 

[pboglio]

Ok Pboglio. But if you have fresh ignition wires and a real cold air intake, the underhood temps cannot effect power output.

Pulling off your cold air ducting or your cold air intake placing your filter outside the bay is silly. It defeats the purpose of preventing the underhood temps from affecting your flow which you're arguing about

Point is, yes you can see VERY high intake temps with an unshielded exhaust manifold if you have no true CAI. But who upgrades the exhaust manifold BEFORE upgrading the intake pipe properly? Because even if you run a shield you still have higher underhood temps than ambient.

Not everyone by a longshot runs a true CAI. I don't cause I don't feel like picking up water and hydrolocking. I don't run an underhood airfilter shield like the DYI guys do because I've found in testing that it is quite restrictive even with a 4" hose feeding it. I've hit on the setup I like, but it has some drawbacks that I live with.

No easy solution until I simply slapped the stock heatshield back and wire tied it down. Ugly, but it works until a custom formed shield can be made. My cold air pickup can keep temps 7-8*F within ambient at anything over 40 mph, unless a 1600* radiant source decides to let loose on it. Shielding the manifold kills the problem dead. It also saves everything under the hood from early death.

The intake manifold itself can heatsoak. You just end up chasing your tail until you stop the problem dead in its tracks by trapping the heat and dumping it out the back bumper. Whoever mentioned the radiator as a heat source thats true. I also guarantee your cooling system will hate your living guts when 1600* of radiation is pumping back into it, another reason why I run the shields.

I'm not arguing to be a dick, but all I get is, "prove this....oh really.....bullshit".
Post up YOUR results fine, but for the other guys, don't jump on somebody trying to HELP you out. ####, since when did providing a tip require proof man.

 

[rarson]

Not trying to nit-pick, but using heat shields will lower the underhood temps, and ALSO keep the exhaust hotter. The reason running no shields makes underhood temps so high is because the exhaust is RELEASING heat into the air, thus making your exhaust housing, turbo, manifold cooler.

I realize that, but in my case, it's obviously not making a 20-30 hp difference.

Also, I dont know if you DD your DSM, but running no heat shields will shortern the life of the alternator and the cooling system wont be as efficient.

I do, and I'm still on the 14-year-old stock alternator (and cooling system).

Lets repeat for the reading challenged, I run a 4" cold air pickup that rams the bottom of my airfilter, AND a CERAMIC coated FP exhaust manifold.

I'll consider myself reading challenged, as I was applying your statement to the stock manifold. Dur...

exposed airfilter is seeing cold air but line of sight to radiation source means radiation is making its way to airfilter and air near MAF.

Well I'm using a stock snorkel and a shield around my air filter. I don't have any cold air ducting. A few cents worth of sheet metal and some foam will prevent most of that heat from getting to the air filter. At the track, I take my headlight out. Maybe that's why I don't seem to be losing much power. If I was losing 20-30 horsepower due to a lack of heat shielding (obviously I'm not), then I must have one freak of a small 16g.

Do you really think the Mitsubishi engineers just said to their managers, "Hey, we are bored as shit, lets tool up an expensive plastic injection molded die to make a sealed airbox..."

Right, but most people still get rid of the stock air box. And if it's so obvious that it's critical to shield the intake from underhood temps, then why don't more people do it?

The exposed manifold is your enemy. It will COOK the #### out of your ignition wires, melt your timing belt cover, and toast your sensors.

I realize that this is a risk, but the car has been this way for 8 years now and still has all the original sensors, timing belt cover, etc. I've never cooked anything. Maybe it's because I shimmed the hood.

You know what? I'm sorry I said anything. I just realized that there are too many little things that are different with my car to make a comparison to the average car useful. I apologize, obviously I'm making far too many assumptions. If I had an FP manifold, I would have it ceramic coated anyway.

Point is, yes you can see VERY high intake temps with an unshielded exhaust manifold if you have no true CAI. But who upgrades the exhaust manifold BEFORE upgrading the intake pipe properly? Because even if you run a shield you still have higher underhood temps than ambient.

Yeah, I guess that's where my assumptions started. I wouldn't think that someone would go to the trouble of changing the exhaust manifold without at least attempting to prevent the hot air that is already in the engine bay from getting to the air filter.

The intake manifold itself can heatsoak.

I would imagine that the intake manifold is getting more heat from the head (and the throttle body, if you still have the coolant lines hooked up) than the air around it, but I haven't done any testing, so I can't say for sure.

No easy solution until I simply slapped the stock heatshield back and wire tied it down.

Are you saying that you coated the manifold AND put a heat shield on it? Just wondering, because I would assume that the ceramic coating alone would be good enough.

 

[94'TSI'AWD]

since i got the 16G and a punishment racing short rout FMIC is the J pipe that comes on the kit good enough for the 16G? i have seen pics of people engines with a 16g and it seems like they all have a different j pipe setup.

 

[dsm-onster]

I didn't meant to start a sh!t fest. I just feel that those who complain about a CAI don't accept what it takes to build a car that can be optimum for the condition it is built. They want more. There's always give and take.