The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support ExtremePSI
Please Support ExtremePSI

Buying parts for my engine - review

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Canadian_CD9A

Supporting Member
1,078
833
Feb 10, 2012
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
Buying parts for my engine now, I decided to stay low-buck instead of going exotic since my goals aren't too outrageous. It's Evo-1 spec (7-bolt) staying stock-bore 2.0L, max of 550WHP with EFR 7670, will see 94 pump. Might see 9000-9500 RPM on an autocross track. I already have the pistons in my possession. Any issues with this setup?

-Stock block, no mods/clearance, oil squirters, light hone. Mileage is around 30,000 on it.
-Wiseco pistons for long-rod 2.0L, roughly 8.53:1 compression (info sheet attached)
-Manley H-Tuff 156mm rods
-King XP rod & main bearings
-Stock 7-bolt crankshaft, uncut, polished.
-Fluidampr balancer
-ARP main studs
-Basic BSE
-Reusing original water pump & oil pump
-OEM timing belt, tensioner, bearings
-ARP L11 head studs
-Fel-Pro Permatorque MLS head gasket
-Stock head/valves
-Kiggly HLA
-GSC S2 camshafts (stock cam gears)
-Kiggly street springs & retainers
-Topline lifters
-Topline gasket kit

What kind of head work would help given the flow limitations of the stock ports?
Any point to coating the bearings/pistons?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
Last edited:
You shouldn't have any limitation in the head with that amount of power. What intake manifold you use will determine how much power you make up top. (or down low for that matter)
 
Stock Evo123 intake with its 60mm TB. I think Curt Brown ports these if I need.
With the head, I've read it stops flowing more at 10.5mm lift, so the GSC's 11mm lift is wasted. Doesn't seem like much, but maybe there is some power to be had there.
 
Good call on that intake. Its probably the best balance of power throughout the revs.

I've never heard the 2g head being limited by lift, more by total airflow. The general consensus is that the 2g style head doesn't run out of steam until about 800whp.
 
• Have the crankshaft sludge plugs drilled out and tapped for plugs then have it completely cleaned out.
• Have the crankshaft balanced to less than 0.25 grams.
• Have the crankshaft nitrided, then have it polished.
• I would consider running the lightweight Oliver Rods with upgraded rod bolts at those rpm.
 
800hp on the head seems like a lot. I'm sure a setup could carry it that far, but how much could be gained by porting at that point?

Good advice, Strm Trpr, appreciated. I was going to have the assembly balanced. I was considering aluminum rods since they aren't much more than a quality steel offering, but I'm still open to a Carrillo or Oliver.

Edit: it seems the only 156mm rod from Oliver is the heavy (667g) Extreme Turbo rod. Carrillo has a light 156mm rod, but they are $1,000. Oof.
 
Last edited:
Yup, having a machine shop fit the rings & such was on the list. My father and I can do assembly, but can't balance things, and don't want to file rings down.
 
800hp on the head seems like a lot. I'm sure a setup could carry it that far, but how much could be gained by porting at that point?

Good advice, Strm Trpr, appreciated. I was going to have the assembly balanced. I was considering aluminum rods since they aren't much more than a quality steel offering, but I'm still open to a Carrillo or Oliver.

Edit: it seems the only 156mm rod from Oliver is the heavy (667g) Extreme Turbo rod. Carrillo has a light 156mm rod, but they are $1,000. Oof.
Ahh, that's right.
Maybe look at the MAP 156mm rods.
They're 634 grams, use 7/16" rod bolts and are designed to use the larger 6-bolt rod bearings.
https://www.maperformance.com/colle...long-rods-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-viii-ix

I'll be running a set in my future LR2.4L road racing build.
 
I wouldnt run the mls head gasket myself, I dont and have a MUCH bigger setup than that, neither have lots of others, Brent Rau comes to mind.
 
Curt Brown builds a badass head for a 2g.

I'd think twice about using the felpro perma torque head gasket.
A) it's .055" compressed thickness.
B) it's 5 layers thick with two super thin foils.
C) it's 87mm diameter and you're at only 85mm. Lots of lost compression in the volume above the deck between the head.
I'd run a cometic before a perma torque.

Surface prep of the head and deck must be absolutely flat and have an Ra of 40 or better.
Install head gaskets dry.

head gasket shootout video - YouTube
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
I might just stick with the H-Tuffs for rods then; MAP rods are heavy, too...they beat up bearings at high RPM. I think I'd trust the mid-level Manley rod to 9,000, more than the Turbo Tuff and base model.

I do have a Fel-Pro composite HG in my basement still, I had doubts about running it, but I know of the success stories using them. Using MLS just seemed like cheap insurance and a way to avoid criticism, haha....

I calculated compression to 8.531 using the Fel-Pro MLS, which is in ideal territory for pump gas. Anything higher, the tuning window shrinks.
 
Degree the cams.
Once zero'd you can dyno tune the cams to deliver power where you want it rather than being stuck.

Get a race valve job at the very least.
You're leaving power on the table without a race valve job.
And to twist to 9,500 rpm, I'd verify the spring choice can handle that.

Excellent choice on the intake manifold and tb.
Should work awesome with the long rod 2.0L.

The Evo IX timing belt has Kevlar.

Your compression height puts you at zero deck height clearance.
 
If the RPM range would be 9000-9500rpm, I would recommend to upgrade the rod bolts to the ARP 625+. To reduce the weight, I would go some 4032 pistons such as Mahle, Supertech or so. You already have the pistons though.
 
Degree the cams.
Once zero'd you can dyno tune the cams to deliver power where you want it rather than being stuck.

Get a race valve job at the very least.
You're leaving power on the table without a race valve job.
And to twist to 9,500 rpm, I'd verify the spring choice can handle that.

Excellent choice on the intake manifold and tb.
Should work awesome with the long rod 2.0L.

The Evo IX timing belt has Kevlar.

Your compression height puts you at zero deck height clearance.

I have a pretty much new timing belt on the car, it has maybe 500 miles on it. Later Evos and Gates are good, but not much use in buying a new one.
GSC cams are machined perfectly from the factory, I've never seen a case where someone had to adjust them to zero them out. Cam gears seem a bit redundant at that point, and Ted B on EvoM said once that they perform best at 0-0 for most setups. Seems like $300 wasted.

Race valve job, I'd probably do. I like Curt Brown's services, but I'm sure many others can do very similar things. Valve springs - what is the go-to for high-RPM, high-boost motors? Kigglys are extremely popular here, I very rarely see anything negative about them.

Maybe 9,500 is a step too far. Having 9,000 would be nice, though.


If the RPM range would be 9000-9500rpm, I would recommend to upgrade the rod bolts to the ARP 625+. To reduce the weight, I would go some 4032 pistons such as Mahle, Supertech or so. You already have the pistons though.

The rod bolts are still an unknown, I'll look into the ARP 2000 vs. 625+ debate a bit more tomorrow. What do you consider to be a good weight for a piston? I thought that anything in the 315g range was considered very light already...or am I crazy?
 
How so?
Why don't you enlighten us rather than being one of those guys that stand back, point and giggle...

OP, the Kiggly street springs and retainers you spec'd are more than adequate to handle the rpms and they're good to 40psi.
https://kigglyracing.com/engine/steel-street-beehive-valvesprings-4g63.html
What he means is for 550hp the OP wants max all this work it way OTT, stock block and head is more then good for 550! Balancing i agree will help reliability more but is not critical as from production are balanced,

So thats why he said its a mountain as all this work is not needed for the power levels he is shooting for,

Also the 2.0 long rod is the most balanced reliable setup going so its already far less likely to wear faster or be out. Making sure the springs etc are correct etc etc sure i get that, but the porting and other mods are not essentual at all for the power needed,
 
^ pretty much. I think for longetivity, a good set of forged pistons and lighter steel rods would be a good investment. You don't need olivers or MAP or any of that. You don't need 625 bolts. You don't need a mls, you don't need a fancy head. If you did run the .050" felpro mls, the extra thickness won't mean shit, as most pistons are down the whole anyway, and even if you got the quench set tight, there isn't enough quench area to matter. I don't think I would worry about nitriding the crank either. You just need standard parts machined and assembled correctly. I would be spending lots of time getting your oil system correct, as sustained 9000rpm operation combined with cornering is a recipe for spun bearings on a stock system.

Last thing, I can't tell what pistons you have, but if they are 1400hd, I'd maybe rethink that in favor of a more full round piston.

I don't road race/ax, but with 550, do you have like 50K set aside for chassis/suspension/safety? How many spare transmissions do you have? A responsive 550whp setup is going to make 500 ft*lbs, well into transmissions don't last long territory.
 
Bastarddsm, that's closer to what I was thinking. Basic low-buck setups have been around forever for this power level, I don't want anything beyond what I need. I don't think the pistons are 1400HD, but they do have the thicker pins in them. I might call RaceFab for a modified sump in the future.

My suspension/brake setup is set, it's a >$10k setup and I'm not worried at all about it. The chassis has some bracing, and I'll be getting a roll bar welded up in the future.

For the trans, I have my concerns. Most of the time it will roll around on 94 octane. The 550WHP figure would be maxed out on E85, and it wouldn't be often since we don't have many sources for the fuel. I figure 450ish whp and 400 ft lbs on pump gas for routine usage, which is a lot kinder to the transmission. I have the necessary diffs to make it work, and the fuel system just needs a couple of components.

As soon as I threw together a shopping list, I blew the diff on my beater S2000. Fffffuuuuuuu-.
 
I have a pretty much new timing belt on the car, it has maybe 500 miles on it. Later Evos and Gates are good, but not much use in buying a new one.
GSC cams are machined perfectly from the factory, I've never seen a case where someone had to adjust them to zero them out. Cam gears seem a bit redundant at that point, and Ted B on EvoM said once that they perform best at 0-0 for most setups. Seems like $300 wasted.

Race valve job, I'd probably do. I like Curt Brown's services, but I'm sure many others can do very similar things. Valve springs - what is the go-to for high-RPM, high-boost motors? Kigglys are extremely popular here, I very rarely see anything negative about them.

Maybe 9,500 is a step too far. Having 9,000 would be nice, though.




The rod bolts are still an unknown, I'll look into the ARP 2000 vs. 625+ debate a bit more tomorrow. What do you consider to be a good weight for a piston? I thought that anything in the 315g range was considered very light already...or am I crazy?
Yes, 315g is actually light. I just mentioned about 4032 pistons because they are generally lighter than 2618 pistons and strong enough for most of case, as if you would want to reduce more weight.
About the rod bolts, even not high power engine the rod bolts and the rod caps start to get a lot of stress if the engine rpm is high, like higher than 9000rpm. I have discussed about that with a Manley rep and some engine builders and they said the same, "if you intend to go over 9000, just upgrade the rod bolts". It is not a must, you don't exactly need it. it is just like an insurance for issues from rod bolt stretch, so it is recommended for a high rpm engine. To balance and to assemble correctly is more important.
 
bastarddsm, thank you for your input!

His compression height on his pistons 1.142" which puts him right at 29mm.
29mm comp height +1/2 the stroke of 88mm/2 +156mm rods puts him at 229mm which is the stock deck height of the 4G63.
Surface the deck and his pistons are now proud.

As far as my comment about the rods go, I suggested a strong I-beam due to the high rpm and decel in gear from high rpm.
High rpm engine braking and decel in gear when the engine is unloaded puts a huge amount of stress on the rods.
The rods, rod caps and rods bolts are keeping that piston from punting the head off the block after the exhaust stroke.

Oiling system upgrades are a must.

OP, what suspension and braking mods do you have?
 
On the compression height, I know that's how the numbers work out, but they end up about .010 below deck usually. I know it seems like the high rpm is bad, but really the compression forces from 550whp are waaaay bigger than the tensile forces from rpm.
If you guys want to figure it out, find/derive the equation for piston acceleration. You can do a linear approximation of how much of the rod weight is effective based on crank angle. Keep the stress in the rod below 50% of yield, and the bolts you'll have to do some reasearch on that, but I believe you want to keep the peak stress below 50% of yield as well. That's for fatigue sake, especially because of the stress reverasals.

I worked it all out, and figured an off the shelf set of eagles with ARP 2000 bolts was good for about 500-600ft*lbs and 9500rpm for infinite cycles. assuming good metallurgy and no internal defects. I vs H doesn't mean shit for the beam strength, it only effects the stress flow into the big end/little end - essentially fatigue life.
 
Yup, I did the math on the deck, and initially wanted a 1.6mm Cometic for the added clearance. I'll skim the bare minimum off the block, but the head gasket is enough of a buffer. I'm happy with the pistons regardless.

Manley H-Tuffs and a 9,000 limiter are the way forward then.

My front brakes are Wilwood 4-piston Superlite calipers with ~310mm 2-piece rotors, Carbotech XP8 pads, stainless lines and a Stealth TT master cylinder. I'll Outlander mod the stock rear brakes to accept a 307mm rotor if I need more thermal capacity and pad leverage out back. My car is a tick over 2500 lbs, so it needs a lot less braking force than DSMs.

Suspension- Toda Fightex DA-G coilovers (10k/12k springs), custom front LCAs for proper roll center, every bushing in the car was replaced with Ralliart units, strut tower bars, fender braces, roll-adjusted tie rods with spherical joints, Evo III front subframe and sway bar setup. Rear: Megan Racing rear toe and camber arms with spherical joints, aftermarket rear LCAs, Whiteline 20mm rear away bar, Ralliart Group-N Evo X LSD.

Going wide soon, 17x9.5 wheels with 255/40R17s all around.
 
Last edited:
Now im out of my league here on the engine specs but i want an 2.0 LR setup and i was told the rods and pins have alot less stress then any other setup so beefing these up seems a bit pointless! I mean sure uograde them but they get less stress then an oem 2.0 block, so for this reason why go overboard on the rods and pins?
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top